What if Urgot ults below 20% Tryndamere?

WinBoat·Jul 7, 2017·40 votes·93,278 views

So if Urgot ulted a below 20% who used ult, does Tryndamere still die and get grinded into pieces? That's the question for today lol.

118 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoirJul 8, 201745 votes

I think currently what happens in cases like these is that we give the advantage to the defender. BelugaWhale has been resisting mine and Riot Sotere's pushes to get him to make Urgot's ult "true death" as we like to call it, at least for the time being.

R0XTARJul 8, 201711 votes

{quoted}

I think currently what happens in cases like these is that we give the advantage to the defender. BelugaWhale has been resisting mine and Riot Sotere's pushes to get him to make Urgot's ult "true death" as we like to call it, at least for the time being.

Yay for Riot response <3 but why no true death??? That makes sense to me to apply it.

RiotRiotRepertoirJul 8, 201734 votes

Yeah it could make sense in this context, but it could also get arms race-ish, I suppose.

Pierce The VealJul 8, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Yeah it could make sense in this context, but it could also get arms race-ish, I suppose.

BUT WHAT IS THE COUNTER TO INVINCIBILITY,

HUH?

Ariel the CruelJul 8, 20172 votes

Morgana Never move. ;p

Meep ManJul 8, 20176 votes

Kayle SCREW YOUR COUNTERS! ONLY I CAN COUNTER OTHERS!

ZerenzaJul 8, 201714 votes

Well, to be fair, those champions are kind of old and in Tryndamere's case, he's very binary, you either win really hard or lose really hard, no inbetween and his ultimate is kind of...unfun? I think it would be nice to actually be able to punish a Kayle or Tryndamere instead of their ults letting them get out scot free after a mistake.

On a side note, revival abilities, invulnerabilities, did you guys discuss making Urgot cancel those abilities(not put them on cooldown but prevent them from working if the enemy is in execution range.)

BârdJul 8, 20171 votes

Thing is, the match would devolve into one interaction.

"Can Trynd dodge Urgot ult?"

Most of the time, the answer will be no; the hitbox on that drill is rather generous, and Trynd is generally deep enough that anyone with skillshots only has to hit them at point blank.

Killing Kayle through her ult is somewhat reasonable, since she can ult early to keep herself above the threshold or ult right before the drill hits. It's skill reliant.

Trynd, though? His ult doesn't stop him from going below 25%, and he gets no value out of it if he isn't at 1 HP. He can't do shit to make his ultimate useful if Urgot gave "True Death".

It's his most important skill, and it would be a dead ability.

ZerenzaJul 8, 20174 votes

But every match up devolves into a singular thing with tryndamere.

"Will tryndamere be able to kill his opponent before his ult timer runs out."

The thing is, this is extremely binary, he's extremely outdated is the main issue though but what difference would it make in the end if tryndamere could still be killed by urgot? So it really doesn't matter if Urgot could kill tryndamere through his ultimate, it wouldn't really change the match up at all it would just require tryndamere to actually think before jumping on someone, right clicking and remembering to press R before dying. Even if urgot couldn't kill him through his ultimate, tryndamere would still use it regardless, because that all his matchups consist of. Right-click someone, jump on them, press R and if you fail to kill them, farm up. He'd play the match up exactly the same regardless.

Emelie CauchemarJul 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Thing is, the match would devolve into one interaction.

"Can Trynd dodge Urgot ult?"

Most of the time, the answer will be no; the hitbox on that drill is rather generous, and Trynd is generally deep enough that anyone with skillshots only has to hit them at point blank.

Killing Kayle through her ult is somewhat reasonable, since she can ult early to keep herself above the threshold or ult right before the drill hits. It's skill reliant.

Trynd, though? His ult doesn't stop him from going below 25%, and he gets no value out of it if he isn't at 1 HP. He can't do shit to make his ultimate useful if Urgot gave "True Death".

It's his most important skill, and it would be a dead ability.

Kindred Zac

I don't see how that's a legitimate excuse when this interaction exists.

BârdJul 8, 20172 votes

Because Kindred don't rely heavily on their ult.

It's still important, but it isn't a matter of "my usefulness is entirely dictated by whether or not this skill is up".

Kindred ult also has a higher reward (five unkillable allies instead of one) so it makes some degree of sense that it would have more weaknesses.

Emelie CauchemarJul 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Because Kindred don't rely heavily on their ult.

It's still important, but it isn't a matter of "my usefulness is entirely dictated by whether or not this skill is up".

Kindred ult also has a higher reward (five unkillable allies instead of one) so it makes some degree of sense that it would have more weaknesses.

you are aware they intentionally keep her power budget really low because of her ulti right lol? If you invalidate Kindred's ultimate you're better off picking any other adc jungler out there because they'll do the job better due to better early game.

FilDaFunkJul 8, 20171 votes

We have supports

BârdJul 8, 20172 votes

No amount of supporting is going to keep a glass cannon above 25% HP while they are wading through the enemy team.

RiotRiotRepertoirJul 8, 201714 votes

We've discussed it. I imagine the spell would be rather controversial if we were to go through with it though.

CyberBaltJul 8, 201716 votes

I think it'd be fair for it to be a true death ability, because unlike many other executes (garen ult, veigar ult, chogath ult) it's a skillshot, and 25% hp is lower than what most of these other ults can execute from. Not to mention it's QSS-able too! It has more than enough counterplay IMO.

Dokueki KenshinNov 24, 20171 votes

The problem with that logic, in my opinion, is that the missile already moves at 3200 speed or some nonsense like that. From my experience with playing against Urgot in lane, you’re not going to be half a lane away from him when he uses ult. You’re going to be right there, in their face, and unless the Urgot misclicks or you get the most clutch Flash, it’s gonna hit you. What’s more, the lock on duration for his ult is also a mind game, because it lasts for so long. Having played Kayle against Urgot myself, at almost all levels, your ult duration is nowhere as long as his. He can just bait you into using ult and still punish you, anyways.

His ult is fine how it is.

XeryntheusJul 8, 20173 votes

Camille's ult was a controversial pick in my opinion making her target unable to leave by any means, but i think after nerfs it ended up ok. So making Urgot's spell a "true death" would be controversial but after making few adjustments it would be pretty good counter to spells such as Tryndamere's. Like idk give it a bigger CD or something :P

MLDzXnRRRJul 8, 20173 votes

Trynda's kit is pretty bad and predictable and you want to counter his single decent skill? Check the new champions with many passives and actives, someone have to counter them, not Trynda.

DivewingJul 8, 20171 votes

Trynd deserves it for not being hard countered by anything

MLDzXnRRRJul 8, 20174 votes

All tanks and exhaust counter him.

Champion SkinJul 8, 20173 votes

Trynd deserves it for not being hard countered by anything

Pretty much all of Trynd damage comes from AA's so everything that counters AA damage counters Tryndamere.... or CC to just kite him since if he isn't in melee range he doesn't really do much....

ahferroin7Jul 8, 20173 votes

So, Teemo, Quinn, anyone with hard disengage and range, anyone with hard CC and range, and most tanks don't exist?

MLDzXnRRRJul 8, 20173 votes

Trynda's kit is pretty bad and predictable and you want to counter his single decent skill? Check the new champions with many passives and actives, someone have to counter them, not Trynda.

SpoofghoulJul 8, 20173 votes

Trynda needs a rework anyway

Beas7ieJul 8, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Camille's ult was a controversial pick in my opinion making her target unable to leave by any means, but i think after nerfs it ended up ok. So making Urgot's spell a "true death" would be controversial but after making few adjustments it would be pretty good counter to spells such as Tryndamere's. Like idk give it a bigger CD or something :P

I was on a long hiatus when Camille was released and haven't really seen her around and don't really know exactly what nerfs or buffs she's had but when I first saw the champion spotlight and they got to the part about the target not being able to leave the ult by any means, I gotta say, as a Jarvan main I was pretty upset.

Jarvan's ult has had issues since day one and has been surrounded by controversy with how easy it is for the enemy to flash out or with many champs, just use a basic ability. At one time(probably still works) even Vayne can do her somersault tumble thing and get out of this "impassable terrain" and now Rito makes this new champ that has a Jarvan ult 2.0 Makes me wanna flip tables.

Though again, I don't know what kind of shape Camille is in now, so I can't really fully dive into whether both of those ults are "fair" or supposedly "working as intended" or not.

FakeGravityJul 8, 20173 votes

the difference between camille ult and jarvan's is that:

jarvan can leave at any time as well as the enemy by either breaking the wall, or flashing himself or dragging himself out leaving the enemy there jarvan deal damage on landing jarvan can trap more than one enemy in an much smaller area

deadlychuckJul 8, 20171 votes

#WAIT! Can Urgot use item 3157 to 100% execute targets, once they drop too low?

SpoofghoulJul 8, 20172 votes

item 3193 sure he can

Heinous BearclawJul 8, 20176 votes

You've embraced other controversial choices - like letting Braum and Yasuo use relatively low cooldown basic abilities to completely nullify the long cooldown ultimates of other champions.

Why should ultimates for champs like Tryndamere or Kayle be so special? Just because they're "defensive" ultimates? What does that even mean?

Both champions frequently use their ultimates' invulnerability for offense, not defense. And conversely, an Ashe arrow or a Lux ult can be used defensively instead of offensively, but it still gets shut down by a Windwall? How is that consistent?

SilverjustJul 8, 20176 votes

lux-ult will not get blocked by windwall

BladeSingularityJul 8, 20173 votes

SHHHH!!!

That's a secret!!!

Sigh... guess the Yasuo mains won't save Windwall for our ults anymore ... it was fun watching them type nonsense in /all chat.

Beas7ieJul 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

SHHHH!!!

That's a secret!!!

Sigh... guess the Yasuo mains won't save Windwall for our ults anymore ... it was fun watching them type nonsense in /all chat.

I play a lot of Yasuo when I can(when he's not already picked or banned, which in my Plastic 5 elo is like all the time) and I fully understand and agree with Lux's ult not being affected by his windwall.

Other projectile abilities, yeah, that's what it's for, but only an idiot would expect that little wall of wind to block that kamehameha blast.

Heinous BearclawJul 9, 20172 votes

How about Braum's ult, which is an underground fissure? Logically, that shouldn't be blocked, but because the game flags it as a "projectile", it is.

What about Lux's other light based abilities, that windwall DOES block, because they're classed as "projectiles"?

There's no logical consistency with regards to in-world explanation for abilities. One light based attack is blocked by wind, but another isn't. One attack that goes under the wind wall is blocked by it, but others aren't. All because of the engine flagging them as being "projectiles", and Riot not bothering to code in exceptions that make sense.

Beas7ieJul 10, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Heinous Bearclaw,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3GXVIZ7j,comment-id=0008000000000001000100040000000000000001,timestamp=2017-07-09T18:05:13.430+0000)

How about Braum's ult, which is an underground fissure? Logically, that shouldn't be blocked, but because the game flags it as a "projectile", it is.

What about Lux's other light based abilities, that windwall DOES block, because they're classed as "projectiles"?

There's no logical consistency with regards to in-world explanation for abilities. One light based attack is blocked by wind, but another isn't. One attack that goes under the wind wall is blocked by it, but others aren't. All because of the engine flagging them as being "projectiles", and Riot not bothering to code in exceptions that make sense.

I've never seen it happen, but that little windwall blocking Braum's fissure is outright bullshit. That definitely needs to be changed.

Gamma SectorNov 28, 20171 votes

It isn't blocked by wind wall because because it isn't a projectile. It's one solid line that pops up all at once. Braum ult starts from braum and moves out. Same with any other projectile. Lux ult doesn't start from her and move outwards, in the same manner.

Champion SkinJul 8, 20172 votes

Well the best use for Kayle ult is to absorb burst (since then you absorb as much damage as possible and still have the duration of the invulnerability) so Kayle isn't necessarily on low HP while in her ult....

I don't really mind Tryndamere though maybe because I almost only play Tahm Kench.... Q slow + AA + AA + W... and there Tryndamere did almost nothing with his ult

I hate Kayle though... since her ult prevents Tahm from getting stacks so he can't stun or eat the target.... (and she is ranged and much harder to get to)

I think it would be nice to actually be able to punish a Kayle or Tryndamere instead of their ults letting them get out scot free after a mistake.

How is that getting off scot free? Their ults are a huge part of their power budget so having it on cooldown is quite a large price to pay..... it is like Malphite using ult to escape... yes he survived but he is a lot less useful/powerful without his ult....

QuephaJul 8, 20172 votes

I think it also would make Urgot way too much of a hard counter to Tryndamere, like even worse than Yasuo countering Twisted Fate. Doesn't Riot generally want to avoid cases of "oh they play X, I guess I'm useless for this whole game"

rtbf221651412Jul 8, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Yay for Riot response <3 but why no true death??? That makes sense to me to apply it.

If they add true death, imagine all the HP/Damage builds. Oh the cancer of trying to kill urgot.

ModCaptainMårvelousJul 8, 20173 votes

Sounds like it's time to go whaling my dude.

Sona PingJul 7, 201710 votes

There's no reason to believe that to be the case. What I imagine happens is that Trynd gets chained and pulled in but survives and keeps hacking on Urgot.

I imagine that because honestly that's pretty badass.

Karn BishopJul 8, 20174 votes

urgods new ult states that it keeps on going if they are in hp kill range unless urgod dies so in this scenario or any other scenario for other champions at insta kill level they just get pulled back to urgot again and die unless your allies kill urgot first.

Zone of EndlessJul 8, 20178 votes

What if he does that to a Vi that's ulting someone.

Glory ln DeathJul 8, 20179 votes

What if Sion ults right before Urgot activates the Death Pull?

ArdunoJul 8, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Glory ln Death,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3GXVIZ7j,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-07-08T01:39:39.872+0000)

What if Sion ults right before Urgot activates the Death Pull?

It will bug and Urgot will pull him into oblivion!

MooooooooreDakkaJul 8, 201714 votes

Urgod gets dragged along by Sion hopefully

ElezzroJul 8, 20172 votes

This had better be a thing

AhristocatsJul 7, 20172 votes

no he doesn't, and he can ult while urgot is hooking him because trynd can ult while being cc'ed

however, if trynd is already under ult, you can ult him then wait 3 sec and then ult him again, healing doesn't counter it

Spartan SolJul 8, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=WTF DARIUS ADC ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3GXVIZ7j,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-07T23:14:18.720+0000)

no he doesn't, and he can ult while urgot is hooking him because trynd can ult while being cc'ed

however, if trynd is already under ult, you can ult him then wait 3 sec and then ult him again, healing doesn't counter it

im not sure he can still ult since its a suppression not a stun. can trynd ult in the middle of malz ult?