A quick post. I think mages could use a new item or reworked item that gives magic penetration to deal with tanks.
Thank you. AD's have multiple items that give armor penetration (lethality now).
EDIT... There are so many MR items. We need another magic pen item!
Gregor Gysi14 votesI take it you want to make magic pen runes worse pre lvl 12 and change %mr pen into %bonusMR pen aswell?
WoonStruck2 votesThis is exactly what would happen.
Critmaster Garen12 votesno. fucking stop with this. weve been over this a million times.
armor values in this game are often twice, if not three times as large as magic resist values.
every champion has scaling armor, while a large portion of the champion pool doesnt have scaling mr/lvl but has 30 mr lvl 1 to lvl 18.
in addition to that, mr is nowhere near as easily available as armor, on practically everything. the values on items are lower across the board.
flat penetration is a stat that is supposed to be stronger against squishy targets who dont buy a lot of resistances. since armor scales naturally, and mr doesnt on many squishies, you simply dont need as much flat magic pen to penetrate a champions base mr, than you need flat armor pen to penetrate his base armor.
on top of that, 
still penetrates total mr on the enemy champion. that means even against squishies, it will remove 10 of his 30 base mr, and another flat armor pen item like 
together with runes/masteries sets that to zero.
Kevin the Nurse1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EG6gOWUU,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2016-12-01T23:26:35.651+0000)
no. fucking stop with this. weve been over this a million times.
armor values in this game are often twice, if not three times as large as magic resist values.
every champion has scaling armor, while a large portion of the champion pool doesnt have scaling mr/lvl but has 30 mr lvl 1 to lvl 18.
in addition to that, mr is nowhere near as easily available as armor, on practically everything. the values on items are lower across the board.
flat penetration is a stat that is supposed to be stronger against squishy targets who dont buy a lot of resistances. since armor scales naturally, and mr doesnt on many squishies, you simply dont need as much flat magic pen to penetrate a champions base mr, than you need flat armor pen to penetrate his base armor.
on top of that,
yeah but we don't have two items the together offer 70% + other pen
as an ad mage or assassin I can reduce your armor even if you build pure armor than I can as a mage trying to reduce mr vs someone building pure MR.
Critmaster Garen1 votesyeah but we don't have two items the together offer 70% + other pen
as an ad mage or assassin I can reduce your armor even if you build pure armor than I can as a mage trying to reduce mr vs someone building pure MR.
% pen stacks multiplicative. nobody gets 70% armor pen. that would be retarded.
and mages arent supposed to shred tanks. if everything can shred tanks, then what the fuck are tanks supposed to be tanky against? people even ask to add % true damage to turrets lmao.
the job of a mage is to burst squishies/apply large amounts of aoe damage to the enemy team and act as a second support against bruisers and tanks.
ForgiveColour10 votesYeah its not like killing locket made mages super strong already
Top kek
WoonStruck6 votesMage circle-jerk tho.
NineTailedMystic2 votesIts an everything "circlejerk"
Thefrostyviking1 votesYeah its not like killing locket made mages super strong already
Top kek
Against sqishy's yes, but mages still struggle with the tanks, fighters and juggernauts as always, mage's can barely hurt them and the tradeoff in the lategame is like 1/3 of their mana for 1/10 or 2/10 of the tanks max hp, not counting their barriers.
Handin Out Naps4 votesYeah ikr mages should be able to kill everything. Buff them more pls.
Thefrostyviking1 votesNot quite my meaning but a mage using all their mana on a target repetedly should not result in them running out of mana before the target even lost 50% hp which happens nearly every time unless fed. Only exceptions tend to be mages with specific abilities/passives like 
who's ultimate can deal deals true damage.
Marshbouy1 votesDid you just forget the Burst<tank<dps<burst cycle or what?
Thefrostyviking1 votesDid you just forget the Burst<tank<dps<burst cycle or what?
But it happens to dps mages as well, and if they try to stick around for more than a single rotation chances are they will get CC'ed to oblivion by the tank they just tried to kill :c I won't say that a ahri should oneshot or even kill a nautilus full tank in a single combo or two but it would be nice if normal dps mages like malz,anivia or maybe cassio could hurt them.
Marshbouy1 votesThat's very untrue. DPS mages can usually kite and kill tanks with ease. Excluding 
of course because he's gutted but 
can all shit on a tank.
Handin Out Naps2 votesAzir can still do it easily. Nashors, Rylais, Void, goodbye tanks.
Marshbouy1 votesHe can, but it's harder because he got nerfed so hard. Late game he is just as strong but during the rest of the game...
Final Spark Lux2 votesActually they didn't kill locket. The MR aura was trivial. The shield is what made that item good, and now its twice as good
Need Gold 4 Tent1 votesIt lost hp though, which made it a good early buy when HP is still stronger than resists. That being said, a multiresist 1100g component item is not bad to couple with the sightstone and targons HP that the typical buyers of this item would have.
Final Spark Lux1 votesWell the shield is what made your team live, and the HP didnt do anything for your team. This guy said they killed locket making mages stronger, and I'm not really thinking about the one specific person building it, but the team as a whole since the carries are more likely to be focused, and they don't build the item. So Ill take the double shield for my team over 1/2 shield 10 MR anyday. It definitely feels a lot better now. I used to hate building it, but now I'll even take the time to buy it on Lux (dont worry Im not one of those baddie full AP no ward lux supports)
Borbland5 votesDont. It will mages completly broken. You see mages have Void Staff, which is the ebst penetration item ever since Last Whisper doesnt work on squichies anymore. You got Sorcerer boots with Void Staff. It's part of the mage core build and that for a reason. We have then Liandries which can further boost this, and that's definitly enough to get around tanks.
Xilixer1 votesDont. It will mages completly broken. You see mages have Void Staff, which is the ebst penetration item ever since Last Whisper doesnt work on squichies anymore. You got Sorcerer boots with Void Staff. It's part of the mage core build and that for a reason. We have then Liandries which can further boost this, and that's definitly enough to get around tanks.
last whisper does work on squishes still. it still gives a decent amount of damage and pen. if you really want to complete it id go with 
. as most of them build lifesteal.
Borbland1 votesHow does Last Whisper work on squichies ? Last Whisper only penetrates bonus armor, meaning this passive is nearly useless against adcs and mages.
Xilixer2 votesHow does Last Whisper work on squichies ? Last Whisper only penetrates bonus armor, meaning this passive is nearly useless against adcs and mages.
if they build armor its usful. just like mages who buy voidstaff its useless against squishes.
Z Statistic1 votesVS is not useless vs squishies...what planet are you on?
VS + flat pen = true damage
TequilaZombie3 votes 35% Magic Resist Penetration. This means that includes the target's base MR.
/ 45% Bonus Armor Penetration. This means that is does NOT include the target's base Armor.
If a champion does not build any MR, Void Staff will still penetrate the 53.4 base MR for a 18.69 flat MPen (or 32.1 and 11.23 for non scaling champs). If a champion does not build any Armor, Last Whisper Line's items will not penatrate ANY armor.
Therefore, Void Staff is better vs squishies than LDR or Mortal Reminder.
10Tickler1 votesAnd that's why you don't GET LDR/MR against a Squishy team. You get any of the Dirk items, because Lethality against squishies scales harder and maintains relevance into lategame, when they're not stacking armor, because "muh dmg"
Requiemsfire2 votesVoid staff bypasses 35% of your base magic resist+magic resist Lord dominiks regards bypasses 45% of your bonus armour which is armour you're gaining through items
It's only good if they're stacking armour which means they're not squishy anymore.
HazyCloud72 votesLord Domink's Regard's is easily the best penetration on the item. The passive (up to 15% more damage against people with higher health) is just really, really effective.
Ulriah5 votesRight, because their range and CC don't help at all against tanks and fighters.
Handin Out Naps5 votesHow about we just not buff mages.
Critmaster Garen5 voteslet me do a little calculation for you. someone without scaling mr will have 30 + 27 = 57 mr from scaling runes at lvl 18.
your mage gets:
reduced to 37.05 mr
reduced to 22,05 mr
magic pen reds, reduced to 14,25 mr
precision mastery, reduced to 5,25 mr
youre dealing almost true damage with just your basic shit against other squishies as a mage. so why in the ass do you need more flat magic pen?
if you still need more, you can go for 
and go into a game with magic pen quints aswell.
whats the issue here?
ProudOfMyWiener4 votes........Really?
Do they need it though?
Pierce The Veal4 votes[{quoted}](name=Captain KIed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EG6gOWUU,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-01T12:09:55.761+0000)
A quick post. I think mages could use a new item or reworked item that gives magic penetration to deal with tanks.
Thank you. AD's have multiple items that give armor penetration (lethality now).
I like how we're complaing about lethality despite how shit it is.
Let's not forget how strong void staff is.
23382622_DEL3 votesNew item, new item!
DarkRitual2 votesVoid staff needs the Last Whisper treatment. Two upgrade paths.
Gregor Gysi4 votesAnd it should only work on bonus MR!
50000000000000001 votesAnd finally have a niche instead of competing against 
(and almost always being better).
WoonStruck1 votesIf it means they can finally delete Morello's I'm all for it.
Cowseed1 votesWhy? Just.... Why?
WoonStruck1 votesBecause Morello's has been overtuned and over-purchased for years, ever since Xerath's original kit was looking to be updated, even if it was unpopular prior. And its only been buffed since then.
Its insanely slot-efficient, and is even insanely cost-efficient.
NineTailedMystic2 votesThat would actually kill most mages.
XxxLumberJackxxX2 votesI wouldn't mind a pen item aimed at ap tanks. Maybe combining haunting guise and armguard and ruby crystal
Targon2 votesI would love another magic penetration item to be honest. While Void Staff is great and all, I hate it being an almost mandatory option for certain AP champions to even be at least somewhat relevant late game.
PermabannedGaren2 votes[{quoted}](name=Captain KIed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EG6gOWUU,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-12-01T12:09:55.761+0000)
A quick post. I think mages could use a new item or reworked item that gives magic penetration to deal with tanks.
Thank you. AD's have multiple items that give armor penetration (lethality now).
Mages generally speaking aren't supposed to be good at killing tanks.
The ones that are, like 
don't really need any help doing so.
Sona x Rubick2 votesthere isn't a way mages should be able to deal with tanks, they aren't carries so stop this
period
WoonStruck1 votesSo mages can be more overpowered? Yeah, no.
Most ADs that go lethality are melee. Most mages are not.
Looks to me like a trade-off.
Thefrostyviking1 votesSo mages can be more overpowered? Yeah, no.
Most ADs that go lethality are melee. Most mages are not.
Looks to me like a trade-off.
But due to void staff being better against sqishys compared to melee's many mages struggles against tanks simply because we don't deal any damage to them, it's feels bad to burn 1/3 of your mana only to deal 15% of their max hp, not counting barriers and whatnot they got.
So maybe give void staff an upgrade part that has some similarities to liandry's torment aka the % of max hp damage or just flat m pen on it.
VoraciousX1 votesKatarina can't do crap against anyone who even builds a 
it doesn't feel like even with Couldn't even touch a Naut with 
when he had a 
. I know that's not my job, but I couldn't even reduce his HP at all. MR is just TOO good against certain mages. Not saying ALL mages suffer this same problem, but some don't feel like they can do anything against MR. Would like to mention 
does the same job as . just gets 5 more % while works for the whole team. Everyone always mentions in these arguments but never seem to mention .
