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QoL for Remnant of the Aspect

ModKnightsKemplar··47 votes·13,875 views

I would really like it if we could change the gold gen passive on relic, at least once it's fully upgraded. This has been a constant frustration for me, but I just got out of one of the worst games I have ever played in terms of trying to get my stacks used.

When you have uncooperative teammates, it's nearly impossible to use those stacks. Could we change it so that when it's fully upgraded, allies near you killing minions trigger that passive? Then they don't have to think about reducing their waveclear for me, and I don't end up with 1200 gold less than the enemy Sona just because I have an Ahri and a Jinx who can't remember that they are gimping our team every time they clear a wave.

If there's a reason this would be a horrible idea, please tell me. But I don't think it would. For Solo Q, this needs to change; again, it's not really a huge problem in lane, but it becomes one once the map opens up.

k thnx

30 Comments

DODGEORLOSE9 votes

I can relate. Teammates don't care if it helps their support because they think we aren't the ones making flashy plays or carrying. They don't realize that more gold for us = more shields, heals, and cc for them.

ModKnightsKemplar12 votes

Yeah, it's really frustrating for the enemy support to have 4 completed items when I haven't finished my 3rd. It makes a difference. We still won that game, but I was super useless because my team wouldn't let me have any gold. It's one of the worst experiences in League, and a huge part of why I get super tired of playing support.

Ifneth1 votes

I care! :(

Bârd7 votes

Not a QOL change, but still a good idea.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Fair point. I can't edit the title now, but you're right.

I used that in the title mostly because I want to emphasize that I don't think it's overall power level needs to change much. It's plenty strong (when your allies let you execute things). They would absolutely need to take power out of this item in another way if they made a change like this.

DW Diana5 votes

I will plead guity on this but also ignorance until just a few weeks ago. I dont play support or adc and when I get auto filled I tend to resort to champions like brand and zyra so never used relic shield.

The only reason I found out how it works is a friend of mine got auto filled and came mid and asked to use his stacks.

Often ignorance is the cause of these problems, like the adc that comes mid, takes cs, then goes back bot over and over thinking he's helping when really he's just pissing off his midlaner.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Yeah, and I think that was the issue with the Ahri in my game, too. I don't mean to shit on anyone for not letting me.

But that's all the more reason to change it. Even if they were letting me use my stacks, it's not particularly fun for anyone to back off the wave just so I can have a couple hundred gold. It's just not a good interaction. Again, in lane it's fine, but after that it just feels bad. Teamfight positioning and such is so important, so it just doesn't work well after laning is over.

DW Diana1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, and I think that was the issue with the Ahri in my game, too. I don't mean to shit on anyone for not letting me.

But that's all the more reason to change it. Even if they were letting me use my stacks, it's not particularly fun for anyone to back off the wave just so I can have a couple hundred gold. It's just not a good interaction. Again, in lane it's fine, but after that it just feels bad. Teamfight positioning and such is so important, so it just doesn't work well after laning is over.

I agree the change would be good, and don't worry I didn't think you meant it that way anyway. It's just people don't understand the mechanics of every single item/role/match up, which leads to misunderstanding. It's like the example I gave for the adc coming mid. They probably thought they were helping because the term "pushing the wave" is rarely explained. Same thing goes for mid laners who roam bot or junglers that fail to gank, they "tax" the lane thinking they're helping when actually they're setting the laner back against their opponent.

Anu3isII4 votes

There are only two reasons why I think this change may not be good:

  1. You don't have control over which minions will be executed. It sucks to have your stacks consumed on Ranged Minions. High AoE Damage dealers, like Mages, tend to clear Ranged Minions first, leading to stacks consumed for a less beneficial Gold income. Supports would start yelling at carries for attacking the wrong minions and even if the Support would try to proc on the better minions, his/her stacks would be consumed by the allies.

  2. Eliminates risks and makes the passive less interactive. Not that bad of a thing, but it would significantly make a safer experience for Tank Supports. Forcing Tank Supports to farm creates openings for the enemy team to engage. The other Supportive items do the same: Spellthief encourages you to attack the opponent, exposing yourself to risks, while Coin simply drops things everyone can see.

I would somewhat argue that it would also be a bit more boring, but it would be better than being annoyed at your teammates.

Overall, I believe there should be another solution that would help Tank Supports in their farming, since Support Items are supposed to be interactive Gold generation items. The proposed change reminds me of old Coin line, which gave Gold passively per Minion killed by allies and nobody really enjoyed it.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

Excellent point about passive gold.

If they really wanted it to be great, I think the upgraded version should just do something different. But I have no idea what that would be. Even in lane, though, I don't like how relic affects wave management (and my adcs don't, either), so I do think that down the line, bigger changes would be helpful.

SooFr0sty17 votes

Could be when fully upgraded, hitting a minion with a passive charge marks the minion for 3s, if that minion dies from any ally, it uses the charge.

ModKnightsKemplar7 votes

LOOK AT THAT MAJESTIC BRAINSTORM.

We need to have this. Exactly this.

meowwow73 votes

tbh for me i would just like it if it wasn't stuck at 1 gold for every 10 seconds when fully upgraded

Teridax682 votes

At the risk of making the Relic Shield line too powerful, I'd much rather its passive were always two-way, even at the start. Unlike the other two support item lines, whose gold gen is either dependent on interaction with enemies, or completely independent, the green line has always depended upon some level of ally coordination, which makes it incredibly frustrating when said coordination does not occur properly. It's also what has consistently led to the item being abused in pro play, because any kind of mechanic dependent on cooperation with teammates tends to scale much better with organized teams. Even if it involved stripping the item line of some of its other power, I feel it could help much more in the long run if it simply allowed two players to automatically share full gold from minion kills, at least to some reasonable extent.

ModKnightsKemplar2 votes

I agree. Gap between organized play and soloQ is just too large.

And I definitely think it needs a power down in some way; can't just have 100% efficiency on the item for free. It would absolutely be OP. Two good points.

sardonisms2 votes

I like anything that makes it more forgiving to have a tank support supporting my noob ADC ass.

In seriousness, I only duo'ed with my partner playing a tank for the first time yesterday, in a bot game. Had never had a supp with Relic Shield before, and when I supp I tend towards enchanters. I was tunnel-visioning practicing CS so he had to keep reminding me to leave the cannons for him.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

It was changed because cannons give you 90 gold. And it is rarer for us in solo queue to get all those every time in the late game, but the pros will.

Honestly, the best thing for the game would be to have the pros simply play with different balance patches. But that's never going to happen, so we just have to deal.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=htEVbqAo,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-05-20T20:49:40.140+0000)

It was changed because cannons give you 90 gold. And it is rarer for us in solo queue to get all those every time in the late game, but the pros will.

Honestly, the best thing for the game would be to have the pros simply play with different balance patches. But that's never going to happen, so we just have to deal.

If not differwnt balance patches, at least a lot more conditions and stipulations.

For example, i think it would be interesting if there was some form of champion dupe clause where champs that were both banned or picked cant be reused in a next match. Would vary things up wuite a bit imo.

BLACK REALM GOD2 votes

well... at max level if your allies killing minions would grant x amount of gold regardless of your champion type or their champion type then that'd make it so any caster or ranger could get it late game just to snowball gold and hp.

i cant think of a few reasons why that would be a bad idea.

remakoro2 votes

Not so long ago i had a game where i had to roam a lot and also solo laners roamed a lot. I ended up finishing my quest at 22 mins. Instead of usual 11-13 min for me. I could not last hit ANYTHING. Solo laners kept last hitting everything no matter what and ADC wasnt that much better. But with adc that was actually bearable. Trying to snatch minion from fucking yasuo is much harder. Its not yet enough for execute or its already dead. When i was about to execute siege minion and my AA was almost finished and jungler smited it i actually tilted. Before changes i kept buying coin on tanky supports for that reason. Unless ive been forced to get targon. Cuz playing wih this is one of the most tilting things league can offer you.

LuthianDelphi2 votes

it already got an indirect buff w/ the cannon minion changes tbf. Ik that doesn't help if your teams aren't co-operative but thats kinda the cost you take, as with spell theifs you could go the safer coin option at the sacrafice of the extra HP -Or and Fangs case AP- and easier to get income that you dont have to harass enemies for / risk harass getting minions or risk allies taking minions. Also extra MS from coin isnt bad on tank supports helps make plays

need a namexD1 votes

That's a really nice idea tbh but an even better idea would to bring back item 3312 CX

Häxel1 votes

maybe you could toggle that. like by holding the button (instead of short click for ward). cause problem i see is if you want to hold in your stacks for actual "normal" people who share. For canonminions. or if you gonna defend vs baronminions, superminions or commando banner minions, the execute is not bad. would be realy abd if the stacks got already used by an automatic system.

bulpitas1 votes

You are forggetting that makn reason is esports why they do balance... :/summoner 14

Bob the Toastr1 votes

Or at least drastically increase the execute cap when fully upgraded. Minion health has been increased at least twice and the execute hasn't been increased to match.

Ok sure but why1 votes

Didn't someone who wasn't a herald make a post exactly like this a month ago and get downvoted into oblivion? Smfh

And we all know if this change happened, our team would start killing the 14-gold caster minions first, every single time

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Yeah, the Boards are funny sometimes. I didn't see that post, but if it's any consolation, many of my posts still get no attention and/or downvoted immediately. Just kinda depends.

Getting a post to the front page often depends on luck/timing.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

I agree with the suggested change. That said I think that it has some problems to consider:

  1. If it's just on all the time then it will never have charges up when canon minions are available. It may need to be toggle-able to work around this.

  2. In order to keep the interactivity and risk/reward inherent to it I think that it should make minions drop "souls" (or whatever else you prefer) when allies kill them, and the "souls" could be picked up for gold and healing to the support and the nearest ally. It might be cool to use a blood theme where you collect blood from slain minions and then get to use it to heal yourself and your ally.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

I agree with the suggested change. That said I think that it has some problems to consider:

  1. If it's just on all the time then it will never have charges up when canon minions are available. It may need to be toggle-able to work around this.

  2. In order to keep the interactivity and risk/reward inherent to it I think that it should make minions drop "souls" (or whatever else you prefer) when allies kill them, and the "souls" could be picked up for gold and healing to the support and the nearest ally. It might be cool to use a blood theme where you collect blood from slain minions and then get to use it to heal yourself and your ally.

Then it would just become a netter version of ancient coin line.

This change also makes it incredibly abusable for non intended champions.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Ah, fair point. I'd forgotten about that.

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