Riot, we need to talk about Lulu

Cloud273·Jul 10, 2016·36 votes·2,838 views

There's no reason to play her whatsoever, and her numbers (win rates) prove it. Lulu is currently the worst support in this game. Her utility and cc really aren't that great, and she has almost no damage in her kit after constant nerfs. Almost everything that Lulu does Janna can do better (mobility, shields, etc) (and more). Supports like Janna and Soraka have had a much higher win rate and pick rate for a very long time, and you consider Lulu to be a problem? I just don't understand the logic behind this at all. I don't know what kind of a niche you want Lulu to have in this game, but whatever it is she's having a very hard time doing her job.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend

45 Comments

Rico NastyJul 11, 201614 votes

She feels like a less satisfying version of Karma

DarkRitualJul 11, 20165 votes

Whereas Karma previously felt like a less satisfying version of Lulu. The tables have turned!

Only Play DariusJul 11, 20168 votes

I usually see Lulu dominate as support in lane though. And that ult is nothing to scoff at

flibitydooJul 11, 20164 votes

the issue I think is OP is using only winrates to compare her power level to other supports

nothing about ease of use (Janna is an extremely straightforward/easy support to pick up) which has a huge impact on winrate even at the higher level nothing about pick rate or even strengths vs weaknesses (like how janna and soraka have non-existent harass damage but stronger defenses/buffs, whereas you can actually poke people out of lane with lulu's autos and q).

chipndip1Jul 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

the issue I think is OP is using only winrates to compare her power level to other supports

nothing about ease of use (Janna is an extremely straightforward/easy support to pick up) which has a huge impact on winrate even at the higher level nothing about pick rate or even strengths vs weaknesses (like how janna and soraka have non-existent harass damage but stronger defenses/buffs, whereas you can actually poke people out of lane with lulu's autos and q).

Here's the issue though:

Soraka and Janna still hold up in higher level play. It isn't a case similar to Sona, where her simplicity + dedicated player base inflates her win rate when she herself isn't that strong overall outside of lower elos.
Soraka and Janna, despite being pretty simple to get the hang of, are very effective. Lulu is more complex for less reward for no reason unless she's solo-laning, but then she's toxic cause you can't catch her. THEN Riot nerfs her out of solo-lane viability, but her supporting is as bad as it was before the nerfs anyway. What did we accomplish? All we did was dumpster Lulu.
With that said, Lulu stands at about a 47% win rate with about a 7%-8% pick rate from Gold to Diamond, slightly increasing as you go up. All her lanes are about even in power in her current state, but that power is very low throughout.

manbearswineJul 11, 20164 votes

I agree with most of what you've said, except some things.

{quoted}

but then she's toxic cause you can't catch her. THEN Riot nerfs her out of solo-lane viability, but her supporting is as bad as it was before the nerfs anyway. What did we accomplish? All we did was dumpster Lulu.

Lulu trades threat for safety, and frankly, if you think lulu is hard to catch, have you ever played against le broken or ahri? and best part is? They don't trade threat for safety, they gain both.

Solo lane lulu isn't toxic, she was op at some points but hasn't been there for a while, the bruiser circlejerk hates her like they do with all ranged top laners, frankly I'd rather deal with lulu top than top quinn, as far as mid lane goes, she's mostly hated by assassins, who quite frankly: are hard to sympathize with.

Also worth noting that riot said they aren't trying to remove lulu from the solo lanes, they even wanted to buff her q ap ratios, but then decided not to do so, sure they might be lying, but I don't see a reason for them to do so in this case.

With that said, Lulu stands at about a 47% win rate with about a 7%-8% pick rate from Gold to Diamond, slightly increasing as you go up. All her lanes are about even in power in her current state, but that power is very low throughout.

Thing is that a lot of lulus max q first, which is just flat our wrong at the moment, also a lot of new players started playing her after the changes, and with new itemization it's not very clear what her optimal build is, so there's a lot of experimentation, now I'm not a fan of winrates as a measure of power anyway, but if you insist on going by them you are gonna have to give them more time to settle down on more appropriate skill orders and builds.

But even if lulu comes out strong out of this mess, would anyone even be happy? Old lulu was a poke support, "new" lulu spams shield on her carry like a retard, that's not what lulu is about, is it?

Finding TeemoJul 11, 20165 votes

{quoted}

But even if lulu comes out strong out of this mess, would anyone even be happy? Old lulu was a poke support, "new" lulu spams shield on her carry like a retard, that's not what lulu is about, is it?

I really hope Riot does something about this. The Q nerf was harsh and killed what made her fun for me. She lost what made her unique.

SaerethJul 11, 20161 votes

This is so true, lulu's fun was her ability to pull off those nice chain double hit pix lances, really put the pressure on the lane, with the 70% damage reduction most of that is gutted. glitterlancing an incoming lane would get all the minions low enough to let your adc quickly last hit each and apply lane pressure/pushing power. Overall what she's lost in her kit is just not anywhere close to being offset by the asp boost (in exchange for her cc) that she was given. I really cant justify taking her over Janna anymore and she was my favorite support.

AstôlfoJul 11, 20161 votes

tfw someone actually thinks LB is broken

manbearswineJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

tfw someone actually thinks LB is broken

Well, she's not azir.

Her balance is probably on the stronger side(though probably not enough to get nerfed from balancing issues), her kit is incredibly stupid hence I always refer to her as le broken, I'd go with le balanced, but the boards are a bit too dumb so I go with le broken instead.

Sire HippingtonJul 11, 20161 votes

The main issue of lulu now is that she now depends more than any other champ on how well her carrie(s) do, as she's all about buffing them. She's truely the 'ADC's bitch' now with very little use on her own. The balance between ally and opponent cast on her abillities has become rather onesided after all the sololane lulu focused nerfs. W on an ally is right now her most powerfull tool, so useing it for her signature cc always feels bad. E on an opponent does so little damage compared to the shield that it's only situational usefull for the reveal or a long ranged glitterlance slow. Another issue here is that lulu's suportive spells have a rather short range and one of them speed sup your ally so he just runs away from you and your shields. More often than not, i find my self useing W on my self just to get in range for shield and ult, or staying so close to the fray already that i have to use the shield and sometimes even ult just to keep my self alive. Lulu needs some more range on her allie casts, and ideally some minor boons on her self like a small version of her shield and sppedbuff so she can keep up and follow her team into the fight.

Lulu could also use a small rework that makes her mechanics less opressive in lane so she can be strong as both, sololane and support, without beeing toxic to face. I think for that, her Q should get the zed treatment - less damage on the base spell, but aditional damage if both glitterlances hiit, which makes it harder for her to get the full poke off and lowers the longrangepoke from E on minion into Q without guting her waveclear potential. And her E should be changed from a nuke into a debuff that increases the damage taken by the target(higher effect for lulu herself and smaller amp for other damage sources), so it's not a powerfull point n click poke but needs Q and some AAs as followup to pay off.

Cloud273Jul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Here's the issue though:

Soraka and Janna still hold up in higher level play. It isn't a case similar to Sona, where her simplicity + dedicated player base inflates her win rate when she herself isn't that strong overall outside of lower elos.

Soraka and Janna, despite being pretty simple to get the hang of, are very effective. Lulu is more complex for less reward for no reason unless she's solo-laning, but then she's toxic cause you can't catch her. THEN Riot nerfs her out of solo-lane viability, but her supporting is as bad as it was before the nerfs anyway. What did we accomplish? All we did was dumpster Lulu.

With that said, Lulu stands at about a 47% win rate with about a 7%-8% pick rate from Gold to Diamond, slightly increasing as you go up. All her lanes are about even in power in her current state, but that power is very low throughout.

The only reason I compared her to Janna is because they both do very similar things (albeit in slightly different ways). They both offer shields, mobility, and slows for their team. They also have very strong engage/disengage with their ults. And even after some minor nerfs recently, Janna still has amazing peel and AP scaling on her abilities, unlike Lulu. The reason I brought up Soraka is because she has maintained a high win rate for a long time, unlike Lulu.

As far as power level is concerned, we can debate all day about how strong or weak a champion is. But without facts, you have nothing to back up your opinion. Win rates aren't the entire picture, but I think we can all agree that Lulu is having a hard time after looking at her numbers.

manbearswineJul 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

whereas you can actually poke people out of lane with lulu's autos and q).

Not anymore you can't.

somexotherxguyJul 11, 20166 votes

I actually think support Lulu is not in a bad place at all. Comparing her to Janna and Soraka is not something you can really do, Janna and Soraka have clear stengths. Janna is good at kiting and disengaging while Soraka has all the heals. Lulu is more of a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none. I pick Lulu in almost every ranked game I can, and I dont seem to run into issues in bot lane. Especially with the W AS buff. But hey i wont complain if Riot decides to buff her support even further.

PennsJul 10, 20165 votes

https://i.gyazo.com/d740efcbeb8cf61cbb83353462e3a279.png

https://i.gyazo.com/ed81226068793d012c09e7519a3b27c1.png item 3070

Serika ZeroJul 11, 20163 votes

They hate solo lane Lulu because "we are not imposing any meta on our players sarcasm" Yet they gave her decent AP ratio and utility scaling with AP -> hence people played Lulu in solo lanes. As she was very strong vs assassins and good vs tanks and bruisers.

But god forbid there's a strong Zed counter in game. We don't want our poster boy assassin countered in mid lane, now, do we? So, instead of giving Lulu decently high bases on utility and dmg with low ap scaling. They just nerfed her.

One could say, that in Rito's team, there's a guy or girl with a lulu complex. And hates the shit out of the little yordle/human.

LarryJul 11, 20163 votes

You pick lulu for her polymorph. Its both silence and auto attack negator. Her ulti has a nice stun as well. Her auto attacks are better than janna her poke is better than janna and her shield is same as Janna's if maxed first. The only thing janna is better at, is disengage

Also, its a totally one sided conversation. I don't see any rioters having a conversation xD

MoarCowbell98Jul 11, 20163 votes

idk man. lulu is one of those weird champions. with organized cooperative communicated play she is just a monster paired with a good adc.

but in solo queue she is pretty garbage tier because you cant depend on your adc.

but there are reasons to pick her. if you want to buff a hyper carry comp then lulu is a must. her huge speed up, massive shields both on relatively short cooldowns to what they do. and an ult that gives a huge chunk of health and knocks up divers on that carry she is a beast at buffing one person into oblivion.

if you dont believe me just find yourself a good adc and then duo with him with you on lulu mid,he can do things that he couldn't dream of other wise. it enables an adc to play SO aggressive.

I think she has her place. she is just not good for solo queue.

GaleWinUnleashedJul 11, 20163 votes

Don't diss my Lulu! She feels amazing! ######If she can get to her late-game utility...

https://i.imgur.com/1HvNiEO.png?noredirect

slowplayJul 10, 20162 votes

they nerf to best of their abilities albeit they have abilities of a monkey. so you get monkey decision making as well..

DealthJul 11, 20161 votes

MonkeyKing

zlumpyJul 10, 20162 votes

I think sona has her beat as worst but I def didnt enjoy my last match as lulu.

chipndip1Jul 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I think sona has her beat as worst but I def didnt enjoy my last match as lulu.

Lulu is worse than Sona at support...and that's why Lulu flexes solo lanes when she wants to win.

NekusenJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I think sona has her beat as worst but I def didnt enjoy my last match as lulu.

Sona is OP in damage and utility.

zlumpyJul 11, 20161 votes

Until you realize you can hard engage on her before 6 right before/after she comes up to poke resulting in her having to blow probably 2 summoners to escape. Her utility is terrible until very late game, but until then she will continue adding almost no MS at low lvl and burning a whole mana bar to heal 1 player back up to full.

NekusenJul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Until you realize you can hard engage on her before 6 right before/after she comes up to poke

yeah, hard engaging with 1/3 of your hp is a great idea.

resulting in her having to blow probably 2 summoners to escape.

or just her aoe speed boost / slow

Her utility is terrible until very late game

her utility is excellent in lanning phase where she provides sustain, insane braindead poke and almost everything you could possible want from a support.

Friendly RamJul 11, 20162 votes

But i like her;( Point and click cc ftw

EnvironmentalistJul 10, 20161 votes

I was ready to comment in defense of Lulu, but you make good points. I used to be able to control so much more in each game, but I feel less and less powerful now. I main her, and I still love her, but she definitely needs a couple small buffs. I always have the lowest damage to champions, whereas if I support Blitz or Leona my DTC is a lot better.

Ryzing2DiamondJul 11, 20161 votes

The reason Lulu is getting nerfed is the same reason Zyra, Lux, and Brand have been getting nerfed, just in reverse. Lulu, even in her current state, can basically DESTROY a solo-lane. While Zyra, Lux, and Brand, are all meant to be played solo-lane but can basically destroy as support...

Baron PerenoldeJul 11, 20161 votes

I don't think she's weak atm, but the popular supports give her a lot of grief. Soraka, Nami and Janna are some of her worst matchups. You also really suffer if your team is behind, which is why I've started to rock Zilean to climb back out of silver (my placements stunk).

That said, Lulu is pretty good with Caitlyn (who seems pretty popular lately) and if her team is at least even, she can be incredibly useful in teamfights. Her landing is also as strong as ever, provided you weren't counterpicked.

TobenJul 11, 20161 votes

I think the biggest problem with lulu is that no one is picking kog'maw. And part of the reason for that is that adcs, like Ashe, that counter him are popular right now.

LatetotheRaceJul 11, 20161 votes

I wish they would either make her damage abysmal while making her CC stronger. OR simply do the opposite. She either needs to be a support or a Mage. Right now they're trying to make her duel purpose, and since the change of supports/support items as a whole, it's impossible to actually balance her as is.

TheOvermindJul 11, 20161 votes

Point and click disarm though. That pretty priceless

NightOfLightJul 11, 20161 votes

KogMaw , Lulu item 3504 this is a reason to play lulu her passive does insane damage when given to kogmaw.

BisaknospJul 11, 20161 votes

poppy and annie support have lower winrates

but still i agree she needs some love

chipndip1Jul 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

poppy and annie support have lower winrates

but still i agree she needs some love

They aren't designed as support champions.

ShrîkeJul 11, 20161 votes

I'm sick of seeing lulu in the lcs. Leave her gutted I wanna see other champs shine. Probably the only way it'll happen because her kit just offers too much imo

La BarbotteJul 11, 20161 votes

but shes the new teemo in solo lanes....

Lady HammerlockJul 11, 20161 votes

Its because her Solo Lane has always been a problem and has always interfered with her support counter part

Photos of GhostsJul 11, 20161 votes

That's the point. She's a problem because she's so ineffective.

TargonJul 11, 20161 votes

Lulu has some of the best utility in the game. 2 Slows, polymorph, movement speed buff, attack speed buff, shield, true sight, and a knock up.

I think the problem is that her laning phase is really bad and that can easily set herself and her ADC behind. Her Q poke doesn't do that much damage and is difficult to land and her auto attacks feel clunky and slow compared to someone to Janna and Soraka which allow her to be punished pretty easily.