"as long as Tahm’s stickiness remains as low as it is, it's ok for him to have the damage he has"

RedCyclone·Dec 5, 2015·112 votes·6,576 views

Holy keks that's hilarious Almost as hilarious as a tank being able to dish out assassin tier damage with no damage items Almost

143 Comments

RebonackDec 5, 201523 votes

He's about as sticky as Olaf.

Which is to say, if he hits you with one Q you're fucked.

SaltyKrackaDec 5, 201512 votes

Olaf's Q doesn't stun.

KatCraftDec 5, 201512 votes

Tahm can't sprint at you laughing at any cc.

Hello I am BirdDec 7, 20151 votes

He can with allies in his belleh c:

Well...

Sorta >.>

Auz the RipperDec 5, 20156 votes

neither does Tahm's Q most of the time

doesn't mean both of them aren't effective

Hayaishi2Dec 5, 201521 votes

If only getting hit by one Q didn't mean that you can't escape anymore he would be a lot easier to deal with.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 201512 votes

Dude...learn how to use your minions

WoonStruckDec 5, 201551 votes

{quoted}

Dude...learn how to use your minions

I love how this could be complete sarcasm and it would get a million upvotes.

But the even better part is how its not. You actually think that works.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20157 votes

I mean it does work considering he has no abilities that go past minions. But please go ahead and let him get stacks on you for free and blame the champ :)

Sir YamazukiDec 5, 201544 votes

{quoted}

I mean it does work considering he has no abilities that go past minions. But please go ahead and let him get stacks on you for free and blame the champ :)

because the game takes place in lane 100% of the time, yeah.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20152 votes

well you have to go through the lanes to progress and eventually win the game and minions are always in lane. but hey, go ahead and let that big guy waddle up to you, hit you 3 times, then stun you. Hey thresh is op because he has a skillshot that lets him stick to you if it lands! am i doing this right?

Sir YamazukiDec 5, 201525 votes

{quoted}

well you have to go through the lanes to progress and eventually win the game and minions are always in lane. but hey, go ahead and let that big guy waddle up to you, hit you 3 times, then stun you. Hey thresh is op because he has a skillshot that lets him stick to you if it lands! am i doing this right?

So, because you don't know how to actually play Tahm it means he's not strong? Alright.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20153 votes

i actually know him quite well. maybe learn how to play against him? ive never had issues playing against him because i dont stand there and let him aa me like everyone else like to for some reason

Sir YamazukiDec 5, 201516 votes

{quoted}

i actually know him quite well. maybe learn how to play against him?

No, you actually don't. I have played him.

Edit~ https://gyazo.com/c5db0b54b504e96c7911fb13e7c54834 You also feed as Tahm rather often, but yeah, you don't want to admit you play an Op champ rather badly.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20152 votes

i actually do, but ok lol

Sir YamazukiDec 5, 201515 votes

{quoted}

i actually do, but ok lol

You totally do, with the sub 50% winrate in Bronze and constant feeding. Nice try though.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20153 votes

yeah because the stats of a support are totally independent of team performance rofl

Sir YamazukiDec 5, 201526 votes

{quoted}

yeah because the stats of a support are totally independent of team performance rofl

1/5/3 Tahm Jungle, what were you talking about only supporting him? Your performance is public, no use in trying to pretend you're something you're not.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20154 votes

yeah theres one game. i dont play him jg so i didnt do great. i guess your done with the actual discussion then? im not the one resorting to personal attacks. let me know when your ready to actually discuss ;)

Sir YamazukiDec 5, 201523 votes

{quoted}

yeah theres one game. i dont play him jg so i didnt do great. i guess your done with the actual discussion then? im not the one resorting to personal attacks. let me know when your ready to actually discuss ;)

You said you played Tahm well, your stats show you don't. Rather difficult to discuss anything when someone has a bias based on their poor performance and chooses to lie about said performance. In addition to that fact you are blaming your team mates for your poor performance. None of my posts are "personal attacks", you may want to go back and learn what it is. I only brought up your stats which are publicly available to anyone, you are more than welcome to use my stats and rank against me if you so choose.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20153 votes

first off i said i know him well. secondly, i actually play him very well, but in a support role theres only so much you can do, especially when playing with random people who arent as good as the enemies. Im in bronze, but a quick look will show that i only started playing ranked like a week ago and im moving up slowly but surely. once again, let me know when your ready to discuss and not turn this into a "you suck so im right" argument. trust me it happens a lot being in bronze and all lol

AnidanDec 5, 201523 votes

Then, uh... actually discuss and he might be more willing to discuss in return? You're returning comments in kind and completely dismissing them as if you're too mature or too 'above this crap' for that type of discussion while still taking part in it. You're not railing it toward proper discussion, you're just keeping this going.

Saying that one should use the minions is a cop-out because the minions should not be your sole counterplay. A lot of the game is played outside of the lanes, like teamfights or skirmishes on the river, dragon pit, baron/rift herald pit, and in the jungle and sometimes even the base between minion spawn points. That's roughly equal to saying that the counterplay to Blitzcrank is to stand behind minions - except that can't be done in the river, nor can it be done in the jungle reliably because you don't always get to choose the battle on your terms when Blitzcrank or Tahm Kench are involved.

Then we get into the discussion of his damage and tankiness, in tandem with his fairly large slow on his Q, and the stun of his Q if he decides to use it for that. He's fairly sticky, and yeah you can go around your minions to try to dodge him, but it's also quite possible that you may be in a position that prevents you from using your minions (pushed the lane too close to Kench's tower on accident, being zoned by Kench, etc).

You can't list their only reliable counterplay as minions because that's not reliable counterplay.

BorfinDec 5, 201511 votes

tahm lands a q, enemy can't get away.

blitz lands a q, you get blown up.

same concept, different low health shield based champion.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20153 votes

no thats not how it works, at least according to the boards

Raid Boss MordeDec 5, 20158 votes

I play Tahm all the time. If I land a Q against anyone with a sliver of mobility, then they get away easily. You gotta get to them when their mobility is on CD.

Slamurai JackDec 5, 20153 votes

I'm curious if you think it's reasonable to be able to get away from a Juggernaught 1v1. Really genuinely curious. The answer to that question says a lot about how you view this game.

LankPantsDec 5, 201526 votes

Must have missed the part where Juggernauts had anywhere near as much utility as Tahm.

He's not remotely a Juggernaut. He has a ton of utility that they don't and as such does not deserve to have damage anywhere near them.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20152 votes

exactly, and he doesnt do the same damage as they do. he locks one person down and is a meat shield after that. juggernauts on the other hand wreck entire teams

LankPantsDec 5, 201521 votes

Tahm top at the moment is dealing more damage than all juggernauts other than Illioi at the moment. If that doesn't tell you there's something wrong with his damage then nothing will.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20154 votes

but, unlike a juggernaut, he cant carry a game, he just simply cant. his kit is designed entirely around single target lockdown and damage. he gets a ton of damage, but the nature of his kit prohibits him from being a hypercarry like garen or darius etc.

LankPantsDec 5, 201523 votes

I'm going to let you in on a little secret here, once you get past Bronze no champion can single handedly carry a game unless the player playing it is substantially more skilled than the players they're against Ie. Diamonds against Golds.

All you can do is improve your chances at winning every game. You're going to have games where you're matched with complete and utter morons and you're going to lose them, there is simply no way to win these games.

Furthermore Darius and Garen are terrible examples of carry champs. I don't know how they perform in Bronze but as you move up there is no way for these champs to solo carry a game. Champs like Riven or Fiora have a far better chance, once again coming back to the higher skilled players point, when these champs are played by a skilled player they can take over a game.

When you play Tahm well you win out over a long stretch of games. You play 100 or so games and you win 55-65 of them by always being a positive contribution. In the end if you're actually playing around your level this is a far better way to climb than to spam champs like Riv and be hit-or-miss or even just miss while attempting to hard carry games.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20152 votes

Lol I know what the world is like outside of bronze, but thanks for the pep talk. Anyways, kench has no ability to carry like fiora (juggernaut) or anyone else can. And darius absolutely can carry a game, unless pros aren't a high enough elo for you. Your response didnt really add anything to the conversation other than saying your gunna win games with kench (which involved throwing out an arbitrary number) that's how you climb, by winning more games than losing, and any champion can do it. I can spam heimerdinger and do more damage than everyone but that doesn't mean I'm carrying the game

LankPantsDec 5, 201520 votes

fiora (juggernaut)

No. Just no. You really don't understand very much about the game do you?

Your response didnt really add anything to the conversation other than saying your gunna win games with kench (which involved throwing out an arbitrary number) that's how you climb, by winning more games than losing, and any champion can do it

That's passive carrying. You don't need to carry a single game ever to climb, so a champions ability to carry games is basically unimportant.

It's not really an abitrary number. 55% is the absolute minimum you should be winning on your main if you want to actually climb. If you're not hitting that win rate you shouldn't expect to go anywhere.

65% is the point where you will climb quickly. With a 65% win rate you can expect to spend around 10 games in each division as long as you hold that win rate.

BattleMan69Dec 5, 20153 votes

You actually do need to carry to climb in bronze, simple as that. Whoever carries harder wins, with a few minor exceptions. And fiora is indeed a juggernaut last time I checked.

SaltyKrackaDec 5, 201522 votes

Wow, no wonder logic doesn't work.

He actually thinks Fiora's a juggernaut.

LankPantsDec 5, 201517 votes

And fiora is indeed a juggernaut last time I checked.

A juggernaut is an immobile tanky damage dealer who lack any form of greater utility. Fiora is a mobile squishy fighter with a surprising amount of utility on her kit.

She's about as far from it as you can get.

Whoever carries harder wins, with a few minor exceptions.

I can tell you from watching my friend's Bronze games it's more a matter of "whoever throws first losses". As it turns out so's the rest of ranked, throws just become less frequent as you climb because better players will individually throw less.

OOOOHHHHBABYDec 5, 20154 votes

{quoted}

A juggernaut is an immobile tanky damage dealer who lack any form of greater utility. Fiora is a mobile squishy fighter with a surprising amount of utility on her kit.

She's about as far from it as you can get.

I can tell you from watching my friend's Bronze games it's more a matter of "whoever throws first losses". As it turns out so's the rest of ranked, throws just become less frequent as you climb because better players will individually throw less.

Juggernaut is just another name for bruisers. Tanky dps.. remember atmas impaler ...oh fun days stacking defense for damage

Dar RaksadaDec 5, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Juggernaut is just another name for bruisers. Tanky dps.. remember atmas impaler ...oh fun days stacking defense for damage

A juggernaut is not the same as a bruiser. Juggernauts are immobile, usually with little to no hard cc. Bruisers don't have to be immobile and can have CC, compare Renekton or Irelia to Mordekaiser.

chipi99Dec 5, 20152 votes

Idk last time I saw a Fiora she had 2 damage items and 4 defense items and completely obliterated our team solo. She can be mistaken as a juggernaut if you ignore her q .

TurquoiseYoshiDec 5, 201511 votes

And I can perceive Gnar as a juggernaut if I ignore his normal form and E. I can also perceive Graves as a juggernaut if I ignore his E.

chipi99Dec 5, 20151 votes

I never said she was a juggernaut. I only stated why people think shes a juggernaut.

TurquoiseYoshiDec 5, 20155 votes

And I just stated why those people really don't make any sense.

Slamurai JackDec 5, 20154 votes

As a support, I would agree, he's typically valued more for his utility. But as a top laner and jungler, he functions exactly like a Juggernaught: He lumbers towards your carries, holds the front line, and just causes a bunch of chaos in the enemy team just like a Garen, Darius, or Mundo. You can use a solo lane Tahm to play backline protector if you wanted to, but it seems like a waste of his potential since you gave him a source of farm.

LankPantsDec 5, 20159 votes

The main problem is that support Tahm gets access to almost identical damage and enough durability to function in the same way whist investing 0 resources into him.

Tahm's just too good as a support right now, even if he's fine in other roles something on his kit's going to have to give.

Slamurai JackDec 5, 201510 votes

No, he doesn't. Statistically speaking, Support is his worst role of the 3, not the best. And a tanky support will never be as tanky as their tanky teammates except in the very late game. Not even close. His damage scales with the items he buys. More gold to buy items=more damage. Not to mention that Top and Jungle Tahms will also be higher level since they don't have to share exp.

Now, if you're saying Tahm support does too much damage for a support, that's another discussion entirely. But saying that support Tahm does as much damage and is as hard to kill as his solo lane counterparts is ridiculous.

Dar RaksadaDec 5, 20154 votes

{quoted}

The main problem is that support Tahm gets access to almost identical damage and enough durability to function in the same way whist investing 0 resources into him.

Tahm's just too good as a support right now, even if he's fine in other roles something on his kit's going to have to give.

I'd say the main problem is he still has all the utility support Tahm does when he plays in other roles, while being tankier and doing more damage.

Ulquiorra995Dec 5, 20159 votes

Well yes, I do think it's reasonable to get away from a Juggernaut 1v1. That's the fucking point of Juggernauts. Insane damage and little to no CC/utility. Tahm possesses juggernaut damage along with support utility. One of those two has to go down significantly in power - and I'm saying that as someone who has played Tahm bot. mid, top and jungle since his release.

Slamurai JackDec 5, 20152 votes

In that case, how exactly is a melee champion with no gap closer supposed to deal with a ranged champion 1v1 if the ranged champion can escape you without help? And no, Tahm does not possess Juggernaught levels of damage. Juggernaughts ravage entire teams; Tahm takes a fair amount of time to kill even 1 person. Garen spins to win all over your team and then ults your Villain for half their health. Darius puts massive DOT's on everyone he touches and is a threat to pentadunk your team if not kept in check. Morde has very high single target burst, decent AOE, and can steal one of your teammates to fight for him. Compared to those 3, Tahm's teamfight damage isn't even close.

Dar RaksadaDec 5, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hpA7VKbP,comment-id=000300020000,timestamp=2015-12-05T13:44:54.361+0000)

In that case, how exactly is a melee champion with no gap closer supposed to deal with a ranged champion 1v1 if the ranged champion can escape you without help? And no, Tahm does not possess Juggernaught levels of damage. Juggernaughts ravage entire teams; Tahm takes a fair amount of time to kill even 1 person. Garen spins to win all over your team and then ults your Villain for half their health. Darius puts massive DOT's on everyone he touches and is a threat to pentadunk your team if not kept in check. Morde has very high single target burst, decent AOE, and can steal one of your teammates to fight for him. Compared to those 3, Tahm's teamfight damage isn't even close.

I believe the goal was they're not supposed to deal with a ranged champ 1v1 without catching them way out of position. Whether or not that's good design is not for me to say. But afaik they're supposed to work with teammates (like the jungler) to defeat ranged enemies or they can zone melee enemies away from high priority allies.

doombotMECHADec 5, 20156 votes

their jig, as i understand it, is that they can't get to a ranged champ w/o help, but once they're there, lord have mercy.