Has anyone else felt the same way? I think for me it's just that the CD on the new trinket makes less sense. Honestly it feels like I am using a summoner spell when I am warding. I mean that's better than not having a free ward, but still... You can't even buy more if you want them.
shyv56 votesvision changes are garbage
Yfrappefort5 votes[{quoted}](name=trying too hard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hl1WT2Tu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-12-25T02:56:12.659+0000)
vision changes are garbage
Have to agree. Never felt so blind when moving around the map.
HeadHonchkrow2 votes
AMYS GRAVE1 votesYeah, i have to take sightstone and warding trinket just to ward sufficiently as the support.
CoffeeDave25 votesas a Support main, it feels like I got nerfed as a player with the changes with the vision changes and 
nerf. I get that was OP but now I feel like I HAVE to have Frost Queen's just to have a comparable level of Vision.
magic pole13 votesthe sightstone nerf hurts :'(
what was already a pretty unsatisfying buy is even worse now since it provides 1 less ward.
ill usually hang on to the trinket through lane phase and use those instead of the stone when i can. then save stone for an objective or invade or whatever
Rammus Soup2 votesSightstone needed a nerf. It wasn't viable for all supports except for the warding function. I actually like the new ward item builds, integrating with other support items. Now, I dot have to waste 2 item slots on support items that really dont benefit late game compared to some iems. I can turn my frostfang and sightstone into single item- or my targons and sightstone. Which makes room for something like Ohmwrecker, or ZZrot, or Banner of Command. Which are much better late game support items.
Aeolian Melodies2 votes[{quoted}](name=Rammus Soup,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hl1WT2Tu,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-12-25T18:31:16.917+0000)
Sightstone needed a nerf. It wasn't viable for all supports except for the warding function. I actually like the new ward item builds, integrating with other support items. Now, I dot have to waste 2 item slots on support items that really dont benefit late game compared to some iems. I can turn my frostfang and sightstone into single item- or my targons and sightstone. Which makes room for something like Ohmwrecker, or ZZrot, or Banner of Command. Which are much better late game support items.
Slot efficiency for poor gold efficiency is the exact opposite of what you want as a support. These items have shit stats and you lose the powerful active of Talisman or Frost Queen's Claim (FotM is debatable). You get a lot more benefits from FQC + RSS or Talisman + RSS than you do from the Eye items. Only 
seems to have some use. 
and 
don't get built as it is, and their mana regen is getting nerfed next patch, rofl.
Rammus Soup2 votesBut you're forgetting the extra item. Because you can say Sightstone + Frostqueen's is better than ... But are they better than + 
? No- they aren't.
Aeolian Melodies2 votes[{quoted}](name=Rammus Soup,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hl1WT2Tu,comment-id=0001000100000001,timestamp=2015-12-26T04:13:01.412+0000)
But you're forgetting the extra item. Because you can say Sightstone + Frostqueen's is better than
Yes they are. FQC's active + more AP + extra ward charge + hp + reduced CD on all your actives > + or whatever.
Only times why I'd think the Eye is superior to FQC is if you're playing a mage support and you're using the extra slot for a luxury item such as 
or 
or whatever suits your champion. Or when it's VERY late game and you're somehow full build on the support and actually need the extra slot to give your team an edge.
Games are shorter than they've ever been. Consequently, full build supports are rarer than they've ever been. The game pace itself makes and useless. Actives on Talisman and FQC can with you the game no matter what's the timer, and no matter how behind you may personally be.
Rammus Soup1 votesI'm just saying, sightstones weren't really viable for all supports. The role of support is the absolute worst for solo queue, because you lack the item slots once you've bought two mediocre support items and boots. Merging your support items, at a slight nerf allows you the extra slot to buy a decent item. Otherwise every other role gets the upper hand on item freedom. Jungle excluded, other roles usually sell their starter item- support doesn't. The role of support is taxed the most when it comes to items. Good supports buy sightstones as soon as they reach 800, or 1100/1250.
AMYS GRAVE1 votesYes they are. If you are buying ZZ the ruby sightstone synergizes because you can get two down at one time because of the CDR on activateable items.
Rammus Soup1 votesWhat stance are you taking?
AMYS GRAVE1 votesMy point is that if you are buying a ZZ portal you want the item CDR the ruby sightstone gives. In general im in the FQC + SS camp because if you are buying activateables 
as supports often do, the ruby sightstone serves as a power multiplier giving you CDR on all of those items in your inventory.
Also the total gold for FQC + sightstone vs eye is only 800 gold, so you aren't delaying your build by that much.
Also if you are worried about slot efficiency you can sell your FQC to free up a slot in the late game after it has generated the gold you need to get that item, while still maintaining your ability to ward with the ruby sightstone. If you go for the eye you are losing your ability to ward if you want to dump the gold generation stats that you are keeping in your inventory.
magic pole21 votesit does feel like using a summoner spell...great way to put it.
and yeah I'm warding less...at the same time I'm more willing to buy more pinks, even if they're only 25g cheaper.
i just pretend they're green wards and assume they won't last very long. if they last longer than 2 or 3 min, well it would have outlasted a green ward so thats ok. even if it gets cleared instantly, at least it shows your team the enemy jungler or gank coming...some info to work with and possibly 1 less death.
RyzeRework14 votesThat's actually what Riot wanted less wards more fighting even said so in the patch rundown
AMYS GRAVE1 votesYeah it is, but i dont think thats what we all want. Because you cant have decent information you cant avoid disadvantageous fights and that benifits the team that is ahead. Overall the vision changes have increased snowballing and it has been a problem that remains unsolved by them. I thought i was gonna play ranked this year with the changes to ranked but i wont until they solve the pacing issue.
RyzeRework1 votesIts so weird that league is all about snowballing but the best champions are late game champions like mundo rammus ect
AMYS GRAVE1 votesThe problem also stems from the fact that the increased ambient gold means that champoins that rely on items (late game champions) are getting late game gold before early/mid game champions can get their levels. It also means that they have devalued cs-ing as a skill in the game as it now gives less relative gold.
Zecher10 votesI'm a support main, and I agree. The warding game is tougher than ever before.
kurthl33t7 votesI am buying more pink wards, I'll grant Riot that. On the other hand, I'm placing WAY fewer wards overall. I feel like I have to save them for key moments, so I hoard them away.
FistOfSharkiesha7 votesI hate that they coddle the people who wouldn't invest a measly 250 gold in one of the easiest ways to win in the game. Until they fix it the best thing to do is use blue trinkets to get pseudo-permanent vision of a huge portion of the map and leave the major chokepoints up to your support and their sightstone.
Nagma7 votesriot fcked up vision , i want the old trinket and the green wards back
NommyPancake4 votesYep, especially in early-mid game.
As singed player, I could upgrade my trinket at lv9, go on warding spree while safely proxy.
I could also split pushing without fear.
Now I couldn't do it anymore, my trinket is on cooldown and I couldn't buy vision/green wards...
that's huge nerf :^)
Taarki4 votesRiot: We want players to ward more and for it to be a team goal, not just the support. Riot Removes green wards and makes trinket have a 60 second ward on a 3 minute CD Riot: There players will ward 5x as much as before!!!
Phoquelesanimaux4 votesSupport is not as fun and rewarding than before. That's why I didn't play that much this preseason.
Hyrum Graff3 votesI think the intent was that we should buy more pinks and fight over vision. People haven't been buying more pinks, though, so it's not playing out the way they thought.
Not sure if this is a riot problem or a player problem.
KoKoboto3 votesRight when I hit level 9 I buy farsight trinket than I start placing wards everywhere like legit everywhere side bush top/bot lane, lane bush, blue buff bush, tiny bush, brush brush EVERYWHERE
Aeolian Melodies2 votesRight when I hit level 9 I buy farsight trinket than I start placing wards everywhere like legit everywhere side bush top/bot lane, lane bush, blue buff bush, tiny bush, brush brush EVERYWHERE
yeah as a support player I wonder if I shouldn't be doing blue trinket + pink instead of SS + red trinket... "sweepable" wards aren't that frequent anymore, so...
Occams Raiser2 votesboth will save you. after the laning phase depending your rank you never really need a sweeper beyond the jungler. If you are winning they can't deep ward. If you are behind you are more than likely dead anyway, you just don't know it yet.
kaykalos3 votesVision control was the best strategy vs snowball, but now the game is more snowbally and they need to balance around lane phase again, while lane phase provides less counterplay than teamfights, u cant make 1v1 balanced, only generalist champion vs generalist champion (some range some poke some all in some cc) is somehow a balanced match up, i dont like generalists, this meta will ruin my day after some patches [zombie-brand-mindblown]
AMYS GRAVE1 voteswhile lane phase provides less counterplay than teamfights, u cant make 1v1 balanced,
That provided me some balancing insight. TY.
P0IS0N IVY3 votesThis is my league story as a support main early game.
"Brb Imma go war-oh nvm I don't have one."
Myrmiron3 votesSince I'm so low on wards all the time, I always keep them for when I otherwise would have to go face first in a brush. I don't ward anymore to maintain a level of vision, but to protect me when I'm suspecting enemies lurking in the brushes. All I can do for keeping vision is 1 pink ward. That's it. Thanks Riot. Well I guess bronzies are not warding more, since they're free.
MChaiser2 votesI feel U, if I'm not support I need to wait for the CD of my trinket; honestly, that sucks, now you can't ward whenever you need....
LadyRenly2 votesCall me bad, but I refuse to spend 75g just to give the enemy laner free gold, because pinks in lane do not last very long, all I want is a green ward.
Aeolian Melodies3 votesCall me bad, but I refuse to spend 75g just to give the enemy laner free gold, because pinks in lane do not last very long, all I want is a green ward.
You don't put them in lane where they can easily destroyed, you place them where they can give long-lasting vision. For instance, bot lane when I'm blue side I tend to place one early in tri bush, by the time the enemy realizes it's there either it's given me enough vision already, or they really have to go out of their way (over-extend) to kill the ward in which case we can probably attack them.
Generally speaking I try not to place pink wards in spots where they cannot be defended.
Occams Raiser2 votesIs it possible that more people should buy sight stone? I made a thread about it but got no traction. Why shouldn't a jungler buy sight stone mid game then trade it late game when he goes full build. Every one likes breaking the norm (or talking about it) but no one does this. UNLESS YOU ARE LEE SIN, yes I know that.
Sammystorm1 votesI shouldn't have to ruin my build path to get wards if I don't want to
Occams Raiser2 votesthere you have it. Rigidity.
Dryditch2 votes3 wards isn't worth the item slot when you already have 2 in your trinket slot... and unless you want to give up the absurd power that is blue smite's slow and damage or red smite's damage reduction and burn, you won't be buying the ward jg item. I hate feeling like I have to keep my trinket for wards as a jungler--i'd rather run sweeper and then do objective control that way, but I rely so much on raptors now.
Occams Raiser2 votescontradiction is interesting. You could have sweeper if you had ss. And your ss is only temporary. it would cost you 470 over all. What is it worth to shut the jungle down?
Dryditch2 votesIf I buy SS, I'm sacrificing damage. I usually only buy it on a tank jungler, and even then, it's a big tradeoff. I don't like losing out on that vision late game, and having a sweeper screws me when the support doesn't even have a sightstone.
DRAGOON Burst2 votes60 duration and 180 cool down, level 1. Ewh.
Burnt Light1 votesLess warding and more fighting
For the big plays
Let's be honest. That's exactly why they did this change.
Pykel1 votespeople were asking for cool changes to sightstone, so what does riot do? they nerf it and put it into other items.... so now junglers who would normally go sightstone for vision can build an item for it but only get two wards, or supports can go with the bad support items to get an extra ward. and i dont think i even need to mention the trinket nerfs all around. and why would u remove green wards..... it actually makes 0 sense, do they want 4 champions buying the shitty sightstone or do they want us having one ward every 10 minutes? cmon riot if u dont know how to balance just ask the community.
Tribbles Foxfolk1 votesHonestly, the vision changes are net-negative, I think. As a support main, I can't get rid of the crappy NEW yellow trinket fast enough. There are games where I've almost considered starting with Sweeper just because the early yellow trinket is complete trash (~60s duration, ~180 CD, iirc). You get so little vision out of it that by the time you get your Sightstone (or Teal Knife for junglers), you got around 3-4 wards from your trinket.
All they have to do is bring back the old 250g upgrade and I think many people would be happy.
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesI think that's the intent, but I think Riot should consider buffing yellow trink. It's a bit weak atm.
Your Real Mom1 votesBasically. And it's unfortunate because vision actually does play a very high factor in the game. I miss being able to drop as many wards as I wanted. I feel the 3 + 1 pink is way too little.
Aljonau1 votesIt feels more like aram and less like a teamgame, people are just running around without any awareness. 1v1-Asassins and heavy bruisers dominate.
