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@Riot Can you reassess the value of mobility, utility, cc, and damage held in kits this preseason?

WoonStruck··2 votes·423 views

The sum of some champions abilities is so much greater than others, and that's excluding some that are in dire need of a rework.

It seriously makes me question whether the balance department actually knows what they're doing. :/

It would be nice to have another patch where you attempt to balance out the roster.

No, not reducing the availibility/effect of moblity...reducing their other strengths to BALANCE that safety/mobility.

No, not reducing their utility...reducing their damage to emphasis that utility and force them make up for the damage elsewhere in your comp.

I feel like so many champions get 'the best of both worlds' in several areas without much in the way of drawbacks. **This needs to change if you want to diversify the LCS. **

There's no reason one of the best poke/damage supports should also be the best utility support in the meta. (karma)

There's no reason the best defensive support should also be the best offensive support. (braum)

There's no reason one of the best teamfighters should have the safest laning phase while also being the biggest bully. (gnar)

Etc, etc, etc.

Riot, you need to reevaluate your balance between champions. **All of them should be reasonably relative in power. **

12 Comments

Abyssphere2 votes

I mean it sounds like you're just inaccurately assessing the champions you're talking about. Braum is debatably the best defensive support, but he most likely isn't the best in that department and he's not -that- amazing offensively. Karma neither has the best damage in the support role, nor the best utility (having a huge shield is essentially her only strength in that department), and Gnar might be a bit overwhelming but that's why he's getting nerfed in a few ways this patch.

This thread seems to just be "Champions shouldn't be OP!" and it's like, duh.

WoonStruck1 votes

His passive makes him incredible offensively. You tag anyone, they have to run or they die, essentially. Its the same as Karma's W, Nocturne's E, Morgana's R, etc.

Except his passive doesn't have a CD. He is a walking zone of threat with no downtime, so I absolutely disagree. He certainly is one of the best offensive supports. That's why pros have taken such a liking to him.

Karma has pretty great bases on both her damage and her shield, not to mention low CDs.

Offensively, her R->E is insanely overpowered atm, and half the reason she's picked.

She's one of the best lane poke supports in the game, especially when you consider mana costs and how easy her skill shot is. Along with that, if they get within X range, they need to leave that range or risk dying due to her W.

I'd disagree that she has 'neither the best utility nor the best damage' because anyone further outside of either realm is so gimmicky that they're borderline useless competitively. There's a reason Janna, who is ALWAYS strong, isn't popular in competitive. There's a reason Braum and Karma are practically the only supports ever seen competitively. Outside of that its only Trundle and Bard. Bard functions similarly, while trundle just has the insane pick potential and follow-up deny that is his W, not to mention invalidating a tank and becoming a super tank himself.

However, Bard and Trundle are usually only picked if one of the others are banned.

Her and Braum do just about everything you'd need. Why pick someone else that only offers one of those things?

Critmaster Garen2 votes

you forgot range.

because attack range is as big as mobility.

mele adc like yasuo need to be loaded with mobility, and abilities like his shield just to compensate for the range advantage of marksmen and mages. that doesnt even give him is own unique kit yet.

WoonStruck1 votes

To be fair, melee only need to be loaded with mobility at this point because ranged have both mobility and CC, sometimes even both.

Not to mention Riot giving them a bunch of free MS from itemization so you can't even auto them twice in a row if they aren't CC'd.

But yeah, range is another issue, however its one I really do not think Riot is capable of addressing in a decent manner, given their history on it.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

You can't compensate for high utility with low damage.

That's what Riot tried to do with Ekko. It doesn't work because we have so many sources of damage besides kits now.

Spellblade. Grasp/Fervor/DFT/TL. Immolation. Deadman's Plate. Red buff. Elder dragon buff. Rift Herald buff. Blue elixir. Thornmail. Titanic Hydra. Luden's Echo. Stattik Shiv. Rapid Firecannon.

So many items and abilities that give damage independent of your kit. Your kit could have 1 damage ability and only a 50% AP scaling and you still nuke people (Sona).

WoonStruck1 votes

Keystone masteries override what a champion is capable of.

All offensive keystone masteries should be removed. If Riot knows half of what they claim to, that'll happen with season 7.

Without Fervor, tank Ekko wouldn't be viable right now. Trinity Force alone is not enough to make him a threat. If he can't utilize Fervor, he's dead weight as a tank right now.

So yes, you can compensate high utility with low damage. The problem is keystones and champions themselves, not the same items that have been there since season 1.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Keystone masteries override what a champion is capable of.

All offensive keystone masteries should be removed. If Riot knows half of what they claim to, that'll happen with season 7.

Without Fervor, tank Ekko wouldn't be viable right now. Trinity Force alone is not enough to make him a threat. If he can't utilize Fervor, he's dead weight as a tank right now.

So yes, you can compensate high utility with low damage. The problem is keystones and champions themselves, not the same items that have been there since season 1.

Items that have not been there since season 1 but have put more damage into the game: item 1401 item 3285 item 1402 item 3087 item 3094 item 3742 item 3748 item 3147 item 3092 item 3030 item 3152 item 3145 item 3025 item 3115

And this isn't "more AD" or "more AP". This is flat damage that's being added to a champion IN ADDITION to the damage granted by the stats of the item.

WoonStruck1 votes

Considering nobody is really getting IBG atm, you're incorrect.

Considering none of those items are bought top lane outside of Titanic Hydra (extremely rarely by non-competitive tops) and Dead Man's (which adds almost nothing unless the enemy lets you get a fully charged hit somehow)...yeah, no.

How can you assume that those are the issues with damage at the moment? Especially when they aren't included in any of the problematic builds. Absolutely none of the items you've listed are the issue with any champions at the moment.

Weathered1 votes

The 4 AD nerf to Ekko is essentially a grain of what your talking about.

WoonStruck1 votes

Taking 12 damage off his TF procs isn't going to do much, though. Trinity Force isn't the issue on him. Its Fervor. Trinity Force just enables it with the 40% attackspeed and his passive.

MisterShameless1 votes

Karma has been fine until they overbuffed her shield. She has never a problem until that happened, no one seems to see that. Just tone down her R+E ratio by 0.1ap since they already toned down the base value. Lulu, Zilean and Zyra still have better poke and utility in my opinion. Karma is still sitting at 48% winrate for both mid and support...

WoonStruck1 votes

Competitively.

Riot doesn't care about non-competitive anymore unless something shows to be a serious issue.

Zilean isn't a support in competitive. He's a mid-laner.

Zyra isn't use competitively, and probably never will be. She offers nothing but CC and damage. Absolutely no safety/utility to utilize. She will never be used competitively while Karma, Braum, Trundle, and Bard exist unless she's blatantly overpowered...in which case she'll probably be used mid instead.

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