What if Clairvoyance temporarily increased the vision range of friendly wards?

Blade of Justic·Jan 5, 2015·46 votes·2,744 views

You press the button and all friendly wards on the map get a temporary increase in range.

Thoughts, summoners?

40 Comments

XtremeyJan 5, 201514 votes

i still think {{summoner:2}} should increase amount of wards to 5 item 2044 and 2 item 2043 .

TrumpetJan 5, 201511 votes

Or 21 points in utility allows for extra wards. Something so that supports can cover for that one guy that just never wards.

Afro SkeletonJan 6, 20152 votes

or more than one guy. Or more than 3 guys.

SecretAgentHulkJan 5, 20153 votes

I don't like this idea; it forces supports into Flash/Ghost and Clairvoyance, whereas I find it much more useful (and would continue even after such a change) to run Heal, Exhaust, or Ignite.

B1naryB0tJan 5, 20152 votes

You don't have to, it would be a nice trade-off, either you can exhaust (practically removing the target from the teamfight) heal (everyone around you gets a slight speed boost and a sizeable heal) ignite (for snowballing and kill potential) or just simply clairvoyance (a few extra wards)

Ankoku no HimeJan 5, 20153 votes

Those few extra wards might win them the game...

B1naryB0tJan 6, 20151 votes

Exactly, so could a lategame teamfight where you shut down the enemy ADC with exhaust, or you turned it around with Heal as your team was about to die and allowing a chase, or an ignite to secure the ace and therefore, a win.

VaurenJan 5, 20154 votes

I'm not sure how effective that would actually be with all the narrow jungle pathways. You wouldn't get very far before you hit another wall and your vision is gone again. If they gave vision within their radius regardless of walls (maybe bushes too) I think that would be better than just increasing range. About the only places you might get more value out of increased range is in the river, lanes, and outside each blue buff (reds to a much lesser extent).

By having wards provide vision in their respective radiuses regardless of walls, it would allow for more creative placing of wards too, shaking things up a bit and making wards more unpredictable.

bzhen0915Jan 5, 20157 votes

True, but maybe if Clairvoyance temporarily allowed wards to ignore walls and grant vision past walls. I think this would make clairvoyance at least somewhat viable, maybe on a support.

VaurenJan 5, 20151 votes

Exactly. You'd then have to determine if taking clairvoyance would then be worth it over flash/exhaust or whatever you run.

In theory though, with enough wards on the map (aka your teammates helping ward) you shouldn't need wards to cover more ground because you'll have vision in all the key locations that you have to have to know where they are.

Rock RockburghJan 6, 20152 votes

In my mind, the big benefit to this would be the pits.

Enemy is taking dragon. You know they're in there because they swept your green from the pit. The jungler has an Oracle's on. You could place a green behind the pit and then pop Clairvoyance. You can now see into the pit, and they can't remove your ward.

Universal BoopJan 5, 20152 votes

Cool but still doesn't make it worth picking

Blade of JusticJan 5, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Uundor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hiExpbFW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-05T14:28:20.478+0000)

Cool but still doesn't make it worth picking

To be fair, while I was typing this, I thought that it would be too OP.

If you believe that it wouldn't be worth picking, I believe that would be called "balanced."

It certainly would dominate the map if your team is vision crazy. Even if only one person carries it.

Shadow GilgameshJan 5, 20151 votes

But who would take it? It would be a summoner spell that depends on every other player to be useful. In all likelyhood it would be a "support only" summoner spell (Jungle can't drop smite, and I don't see top giving up teleport or mid dropping ignite) and anywhere but premade teams I would take exhaust over a ward buff since 95% of my games have just the support and jungler warding beyond trinkets.

SecretAgentHulkJan 5, 20151 votes

It would be a summoner spell that depends on every other player to be useful.

Isn't that how you win? Anyway, it would be more OP in a team comp while worthless in soloQ, instead of just being all-around worthless.

VesarixxJan 5, 20152 votes

I've been suggesting the ability to place wards within the revealed area from anywhere on the map for a while now, as a support having the ability to safely get vision control of an area without needing to face check would be fantastic, maybe have the wards stay visible for a couple seconds longer or increase the cool down to compensate

ZirzonJan 6, 20151 votes

That's a pretty neat idea! It'd be nice if it automatically placed a free ward in the center of the ability, that doesn't count towards your ward max. If this would be considered op, perhaps they could basically make it like a pink ward (but without stealth reveal), so that it would be relatively easy to eliminate if discovered?

VesarixxJan 6, 20151 votes

Or they could make taking clairvoyance increase the amount of wards you were able to buy and place at once as a passive

JamnonJan 6, 20152 votes

What if clarity refreshed the countdown of green wards and restored health to purple wards?

asktiksJan 5, 20151 votes

I like it , I mean, with trinkets now, everyone gets a mini clairvo anyways

id pick it as support actually ,AND it would give even more incentive to keep stuff warded, it would become a combo so to speak , warding and clairvoing

could work, I like it

InbredFeederJan 5, 20151 votes

I think that it would only be able to work for the summoner who casts it, otherwise it would be OP.

Killer of PorosJan 5, 20151 votes

You could have all pink wards have increased range temporarily and be able to see into bushes they're not in while giving normal wards true sight.

tainteddazeJan 5, 20151 votes

randomly get increased vision for like 5 seconds i don't see how that is op. Honestly it doesn't make sense for it to do that anyway. CV will never be op unless they lower the c/d on it like they had it in s1 were the support could literally CV the jungler at every single camp he went to. O just killed blue buff he cv me. O just killed wolves right next to blue 20 seconds later he cv me again. O just killed wraiths cv me again. Great he knows where i am at every stage of the jungle was dumb as hell. Its still a very good summoner if used right, but that is why people just take blue trinket over cv also cause it can be used as good as cv can be.

PikmintsJan 5, 20151 votes

There's a lot of suggestions around the same lines as that out there.

Increasing range of friendly wards when activated, increase range of wards placed by the champ that used it permanently through the entirety of the game, increase ward limit (sightstone or active wards [or both]), increase stealth ward duration, reduce trinket cd, provide a unique sightstone path (akin to smite), provide access to enhanced wards (like the TotalBiscuit potions), increase ward placement radius, etc.

There are many simple possibilities out there, the tough part is for Riot to decide on one that would make taking Clairvoyance viable without making it a must-get for supports. Things like Exhaust, Ignite, and Heal provide actual combat bonuses that can turn the tide of a fight, while most of the simpler Clairvoyance suggestions won't be able to outweigh the combat bonuses without being incredibly overtuned and thus a must-get for supports.

I've slowly reconciled that Clairvoyance is like Revive or Clarity, summoner spells that just have to remain sub-par choices for the sake of balance.

PoshrielJan 5, 20151 votes

I would think that only having the choice to get exhaust, because nearly every adc in their right mind grabs heal if the support doesn't have a kit heal. And the fact that heal summoner debuff's itself. What else is there? Flash which is a must, the two other summoners mentioned?

I mean if anything flash is a worse balance sink than any other summoner spell. Those spells being at least 1/3 as strong as flash is not going to break the game.

Sightless66Jan 5, 20152 votes

There is ignite. Still a common support pick.

PoshrielJan 7, 20151 votes

It's good for carry supports like annie, but having a, 'target champion no longer exists for x amount of seconds" is much stronger for most supports. Same with heal if you can convince your adc to get barrier instead.

But lets look at the summoner spells that actually get play. Teleport, Flash, heal, barrier, exhaust, and I wouldn't count smite. And honestly, the part of the spell heal that really matters is just a slightly stronger form of the shield barrier gives you. So I would say the uses of each mirror each other, if you don't take into account the temp. speed boost. So I would say more or less there are 4 spells people use, and 1 of them is absolutely necessary to have. (flash)

Lets look at the ones people don't generally use. Revive, clarity, cleanse, clairvoyance, and ghost. That's half if you count both heal and barrier. I don't but that's a matter of opinion, which means in my eyes, means that there is a little wiggle room for some of the summoner spells getting a little power buff. Just to create some diversity.

Really mix the game up. And, that's a small fraction of the reason supports aren't interesting to play. But there has to be a starting point somewhere.

Like, for example, what if you could use cleanse on friendly champions? And they upped the cool down for it. Now you have a choice that's quite useful, but not broken. Also maybe some interactions for cleanse might need to change. I'm still not sure how it interacts with certain forms of cc. Mainly because I haven't used it since season 1 when I was still below level 30.

Sightless66Jan 7, 20151 votes

One small nitpick. I would argue that ghost actually is used. It sees play on some of the more immobile melees (Nasus practically requires it) and it is used also by a number of high-range casters as a supplement for or even as a replacement for flash.

That said, I do agree with you. There is a good argument for expanding the range of summoner spells. Flash being a primary summoner spell for most champions doesn't bother me very much, but not having other options worth considering is a problem. Part of it is due to design. Clarity will always be useless so long as it has a mana focus, and revive is extremely situational and practically requires TP to be useful at any point other than when they are breaking down your base. As for CV, its value has been degraded by the increased use of vision in the early game.

Regarding cleanse: it breaks any form of CC that isn't a knockup or suppression. It is also supposed to remove any enemy summoner spells affecting you, although you will note that Ignite's grievous wound effect is not removed (arguably a bug. A very long-lived bug). If it were to be castable on allies, work would have to be done to make sure it doesn't just overlap with Mikael's. One or the other would have to be significantly modified in some way. A way to increase the value of cleanse would be to introduce new summoner spells focused around CC or possibly effects like terrain modification.

PoshrielJan 7, 20151 votes

The thing with cleanse and mikael's, is that a good percentage of the time the person getting cleanse would be support, regarding my ideal change of it. So if you overlapped the two, it wouldn't really matter.

Sightless66Jan 7, 20151 votes

Well, it does kind of matter because it means that one or the other might end up useless in comparison to the other option. If cleanse is good, why buy Mikael's? If Mikael's is good, why ever take cleanse when you can just buy a lower CD cleanse instead? It also increases the prevalence of the effect because it allows for you to choose not to get a certain effect (cleansing CC) at the start of the game but allows for you to get it later, or it allows you to get it early and avoid picking up an item with non-ideal stats. If an effect becomes too easy to acquire, that does matter. It's not necessarily bad, but it does have a lot of potential to be.

PoshrielJan 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Well, it does kind of matter because it means that one or the other might end up useless in comparison to the other option. If cleanse is good, why buy Mikael's? If Mikael's is good, why ever take cleanse when you can just buy a lower CD cleanse instead? It also increases the prevalence of the effect because it allows for you to choose not to get a certain effect (cleansing CC) at the start of the game but allows for you to get it later, or it allows you to get it early and avoid picking up an item with non-ideal stats. If an effect becomes too easy to acquire, that does matter. It's not necessarily bad, but it does have a lot of potential to be.

I can see where you're coming from. I just feel like it needs to be thought about more. With the upcoming changes, I feel like there are a lot of nonsensical changes, and summoner spell changes could really bring everything together. I haven't seen a support buff in a long time. Not saying there hasn't been, I may have missed one. But every support I see gets nerfed, soraka's heal now promotes her not buying health. Her base attack damage wasn't just nerfed (it needed it) it was made non-existent.

And she's decently strong, if you aren't going against an all in support lane, which is a lot of the support lanes I end up facing.

"Sona gets nerfed." Three words are all that is needed for that one. I don't remember Janna ever being buffed, not that she needs it. She's basically stuck where she is because of her ridiculous kit. Lulu was just built to be strong, no need to explain. Same with nami. Leona, thresh, man I'm getting tired of those characters. I would rather face brand bot, which is actually pretty nasty.

Being a bot lane player primarily, I just end up doing bad because the lane never changes and I go fabby because it's the only way bot lane is fun anymore.

Sightless66Jan 8, 20151 votes

With the upcoming changes, I feel like there are a lot of nonsensical changes, and summoner spell changes could really bring everything together.

I don't remember Janna ever being buffed, not that she needs it.

Janna was buffed substantially in season 4. Following a major nerf to her passive at the end of season 3, she saw very low play rates and reasonably low win rates. She experienced a period of no competitive play and winrates of around 48%. She was mediocre at best.Her ult healing was increased significantly and occurred over a lower time. They also removed the cast delay from it. Later, they also increased the knockup duration and lowered the cooldown on her Q when it was charged, and they significantly increased the range of her passive. Without these buffs, she'd likely still be mostly unplayed.

Lulu was just built to be strong, no need to explain.

You might need to explain that. Strength is just a result of numbers as opposed to kit a lot of the time, and Lulu does have a lot of numbers she is very reliant on. I don't think Lulu is actually strong. I think she's one of the worst supports in the game right now, as a result of continuous number nerfs.

I would rather face brand bot, which is actually pretty nasty.

Very boring thing to lane against. Not a fan. Vel'Koz and Zyra are are more interesting examples to me. More interesting gameplay while also requiring more to justify their laning strength.

summoner spell changes could really bring everything together.

I'd have to see proposals before I agree to that. I don't really see summoner spells being a catlyst for a new and better balance state.

PoshrielJan 8, 20151 votes

The reason lulu is strong isn't due to her numbers. She has a point and click interrupt/silence. Her ult is an aoe knock up that adds a couple of health bars to her team. That in it's own is what makes her strong. It's like a less powerful oriana, honestly that's the only reason i can think of not to play her. Actually a team with both Lulu and Oriana would be strong. Any kind of team that focuses around a hard engage top could abuse it potentially. However, with bans and everything, I don't know if they are banning oriana currently. It would make sense.

Flash is an example of a spell that breaks the current game in terms of balance, and I don't think that will ever change.

Brand is horrible to lane against, but Vel Koz and Zyra are more annoying in my opinion.

I played janna a few weeks ago and didn't even feel the changes at all, so I don't think it really mattered in the long run.

And I really wasn't talking about summoner spells being the catalyst, the jungle, the current changes being implemented in pbe, with the new items coming out. Summoner spell changes aren't the only thing that can tie the changes together, but it's definitely a good start.

Sightless66Jan 8, 20151 votes

The reason lulu is strong isn't due to her numbers

Again, I don't think she is strong. I think she's weak. Quite weak. Just because she has a polymorph and a knockup doesn't make her strong. Orianna is played a good amount and does draw bans. Lulu isn't used in an Orianna comp. Nami, Braum and Alistar all all viewed as superior for that job, because they have much more potential to set up a ball than Lulu does and their follow-up is just as good or better. Lulu only sees play as a top-laner meant to bully kitable melees and set up some midgame fights.... or at least, she would if Lissandra didn't do that exact job while engaging and scaling better. So, Lulu lacks any role she's actually good at right now.

Here's my reason to not play her: she does mediocre damage out of the laning phase.

I played janna a few weeks ago and didn't even feel the changes at all, so I don't think it really mattered in the long run.

I play her a lot. They mattered a ton. Not having a cast time on the ult makes so many more saves possible. Your healing per second is massively increased, allowing for more utility on short channels. Even the passive aura change made a big difference because you can boost the frontline from a further distance.

Numbers matter. Strength can easily be modified by messing with numbers. That's why Janna wasn't played at all in season 2 following her season 1 nerfs, and wasn't played in season 4 until she received her buffs.

JustBoneBrookJan 5, 20151 votes

Perso i think it need a lower cooldown and gain vision of champ hit (like the other item never use you know this one: item 3363 like with the mastery in S3) I think i actually use it whene it gain vision of the target and had a lower cooldown.

Or well on sumoner rift the area is 2 time biger because the map is 2 time biger than on other map.

ItzonJan 5, 20151 votes

This is a great idea. Or even if within a certain range of said champion with Clairvoyance the wards increase range.

GoldSpectrumJan 6, 20151 votes

It should

Chaos OpenJan 6, 20151 votes

It would make clairvoyance useful.

Another way it might be useful is if it could keep track of an enemy even after they leave your vision. So, lets say your pursuing someone, they can't just escape to the fog of war. You put clairvoyance on them and they are constantly visible for a set amount of time.

MathbalnaseJan 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chaos Open,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hiExpbFW,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2015-01-06T02:27:37.264+0000)

It would make clairvoyance useful.

Well, we can't have that.

disembodiedsoulJan 6, 20151 votes

This is a wonderful idea, it opens the realm to many other ideas to be linked to this, I'm sure if Riot agrees, they will find something along the lines of having it buff either: item 2050 , item 3187 , item 2047 , item 2045 , item 2049 , item 3340 , item 2043 , item 2044 , item 3342 .

I hope to see them find it tactically useful with cooperation with atleast two of those items. I really want to see more variety in how people use summoner spells, becase frankly I'm tired of the boring over use of FLASH, IGNITE, and HEAL.