I don't understand this sudden hatred and aversion to strategy on the part of the "balance" team. Since when was being intelligent, calculating and strategic something to be shunned? Games today are so fast and SOOO BORING. Stop speeding the games up. Seriously. It's unbelievably stupid.
And no, I don't need a break because I was having fun with League just fine before runes reforged went online.
Rαy19 votesTrue.
Every game seems to be an unsatisfying stomp since season 8.
Beacon Academy18 votesMaking the game strategic will discriminate against the stupid.
Therefore the game shall become equally stupid for all.
mack91129 votesWell what do you define as a long game .
I had plenty of 30 and 40 minute games to this date. Average game length sits at around 30 mins which is a perfect game length if you ask me.
Irelia Bot6 votesWell what do you define as a long game .
I had plenty of 30 and 40 minute games to this date. Average game length sits at around 30 mins which is a perfect game length if you ask me.
Having most games going 30 o 45 minutes with occasional ones going 60+ minutes was fine.
Having games almost always decided before 20 minutes because one player got destroyed deciding the game is not really enjoyable
Rock MD9 votesYou. Weren't. Being. Strategic.
Your games lasted longer because people don't know how to close out games properly.
Whisper8710 votesI think the level of advantage you get out of early leads is a little over the top right now. Sure maybe towers are harder to kill early, but now you get $ for killing plating so an individual person can get fed and snowball.
I've been playing since season 2 and I can say with 100% objectivity that in all the games I play myself, and all the games I watch on stream, I've never seen the game more one dimensional. At high levels of play, while it is still much more robust than low levels, is extremely focused on winning lane phase. People's champion choice is decided by lane matchup 95% of the time. The days where you could just pick a champ into a not so great matchup and just soft sacrifice the lane in favor of picking a champ who really synergies well with your team, or is a team counter rather than lane counter, is over.
Even if you watched/listened to pro play last season, the way the casters talk about closing out games has changed. It used to be "Well it looks like team X has accrued a 2k gold lead at 20 minutes, let's see how team Y plays around that gold deficit. They've got a couple options..." and so on. NOW it's more like "Well team X has accrued a 2k gold lead at 20 minutes, team Y is going to have to make a big miracle play here or it's pretty much looking like this one is over".
Think about when TSM and Cloud 9 were head and shoulders above the rest of NA teams. Against lower tier teams they would lean on the strength of their players and win lane phase, but when they played each other or a couple other higher tier teams, they would VERY often soft sacrifice a lane or player, but put together these really good team comps. And then even if they got behind early they were allowed to play around/through the disadvantage with superior team fighting, rotations, and/or team comp.
GOLD AND XP LEADS ARE MEANT TO BE SOMETHING TO GET YOU TO A WIN CONDITION, NOT THE WIN CONDITION ITSELF! It's just horrendous how easy it is to get to the point where a few players are so strong that team comps and champ synergy doesn't matter. And no one cares if solo q heroes complain about how frustrating it is to stomp during lane phase, but then lose because you can't team fight or control waves. Don't cry about it, learn all aspects of the game or take your beating and don't complain about how you don't understand why you keep losing.
Rock MD2 votesI think the level of advantage you get out of early leads is a little over the top right now. Sure maybe towers are harder to kill early, but now you get $ for killing plating so an individual person can get fed and snowball.
I've been playing since season 2 and I can say with 100% objectivity that in all the games I play myself, and all the games I watch on stream, I've never seen the game more one dimensional. At high levels of play, while it is still much more robust than low levels, is extremely focused on winning lane phase. People's champion choice is decided by lane matchup 95% of the time. The days where you could just pick a champ into a not so great matchup and just soft sacrifice the lane in favor of picking a champ who really synergies well with your team, or is a team counter rather than lane counter, is over.
Even if you watched/listened to pro play last season, the way the casters talk about closing out games has changed. It used to be "Well it looks like team X has accrued a 2k gold lead at 20 minutes, let's see how team Y plays around that gold deficit. They've got a couple options..." and so on. NOW it's more like "Well team X has accrued a 2k gold lead at 20 minutes, team Y is going to have to make a big miracle play here or it's pretty much looking like this one is over".
Think about when TSM and Cloud 9 were head and shoulders above the rest of NA teams. Against lower tier teams they would lean on the strength of their players and win lane phase, but when they played each other or a couple other higher tier teams, they would VERY often soft sacrifice a lane or player, but put together these really good team comps. And then even if they got behind early they were allowed to play around/through the disadvantage with superior team fighting, rotations, and/or team comp.
GOLD AND XP LEADS ARE MEANT TO BE SOMETHING TO GET YOU TO A WIN CONDITION, NOT THE WIN CONDITION ITSELF! It's just horrendous how easy it is to get to the point where a few players are so strong that team comps and champ synergy doesn't matter. And no one cares if solo q heroes complain about how frustrating it is to stomp during lane phase, but then lose because you can't team fight or control waves. Don't cry about it, learn all aspects of the game or take your beating and don't complain about how you don't understand why you keep losing.
Let's lay down a couple assumptions here before I go on.
Do you get a little much from tower plating? Sure. That 160 gold per plate is pretty hefty. It's leading to more lane dominant choices than roaming dominant choices and that's a pretty big impact on the meta.
Are the games over just because of that? Not at all. When pros talk about, "okay Gen G has a 2k gold lead over SKT" they're not saying the game is over. That's a good 400 gold per person, that's not going to win a game. What it is saying is that they're getting outpaced and they need to pick up the tempo or they will lose.
How does this translate into NA solo queue? Same thing. Stomps are generally stomps because the player getting stomped is not playing at the same pace as the opposing team. Making the game easier to end out through aids like plating gold or rift herald simply make it easier to close out without having to make some crazy maneuver or macroplay, which is why low elo games are much more one sided.
That being said, these teams could easily come back but there is very little macro involved and very little strategy besides go for these objectives, and I dislike when people invoke, "it's a strategy game why don't I feel like a strategy genius." when in reality they weren't ever being strategic from the start, just ambling around and trying to stall out.
Whisper875 votesExactly, implementing crutches for people who don't know how to expand their early game advantage is so face roll and a bad idea for a game like LOL, which was ORIGINALLY a very robust game in terms of strategy and champion options.
People stomp lane as Draven but then lose cuz all they are doing is running around chasing kills? We better just make sure the Draven gets an extra 400g or more out of lane phase. I lost track a long time ago of the number of games which are literal free wins, but my team throws because they either don't know or care how to end games.
I have probably played close to 100 matches over the years where the game goes a little later, but my team manages to win a good team fight and we take 2 inhibs then take baron. At this point literally all we have to do is go stand in bottom lane, let the supers push in the other two lanes, and just let minions kill the base. Literally all we have to do is stand near the last remaining inhib turret and not die. No fighting required, just free win, be ready to flash if they try to engage on you. What do people do instead? They insist on running down mid and forcing a fight. Or running down mid and trying to force nexus tower kills rather than just go to the last remaining lane and let the overwhelming waves of creeps destroy the base for you. I understand that games are about fun, but when you throw a game just because you want the joy of ending the game with a big fight, or be the one to last hit the nexus rather than supers, you've gone way too far.
That brings us also back to the point of lack of consistency and one dimensional play. If you are amazing at laning cuz you are a veteran one trick, but garbage at everything else cuz you never took the time to read patch notes or understand how other elements of the game work, you should lose a lot of games. If you are able to accrue large leads in lane but have a tendency to wander around in enemy jungle hunting for kills and then get gibbed, you should lose a lot of games.
The risk/reward ratio in the game is just busted. Making slightly disadvantageous trades for the early and mid game to try and just survive until champs or comps come online has become largely a thing of the past because early game has become so formulaic and just ok kill tower, then get drake cuz you just killed, bot, then go kill herald for free cuz you are already so far ahead that fighting you is suicide.
demonicthomas2 votesI think the level of advantage you get out of early leads is a little over the top right now. Sure maybe towers are harder to kill early, but now you get $ for killing plating so an individual person can get fed and snowball.
I've been playing since season 2 and I can say with 100% objectivity that in all the games I play myself, and all the games I watch on stream, I've never seen the game more one dimensional. At high levels of play, while it is still much more robust than low levels, is extremely focused on winning lane phase. People's champion choice is decided by lane matchup 95% of the time. The days where you could just pick a champ into a not so great matchup and just soft sacrifice the lane in favor of picking a champ who really synergies well with your team, or is a team counter rather than lane counter, is over.
Even if you watched/listened to pro play last season, the way the casters talk about closing out games has changed. It used to be "Well it looks like team X has accrued a 2k gold lead at 20 minutes, let's see how team Y plays around that gold deficit. They've got a couple options..." and so on. NOW it's more like "Well team X has accrued a 2k gold lead at 20 minutes, team Y is going to have to make a big miracle play here or it's pretty much looking like this one is over".
Think about when TSM and Cloud 9 were head and shoulders above the rest of NA teams. Against lower tier teams they would lean on the strength of their players and win lane phase, but when they played each other or a couple other higher tier teams, they would VERY often soft sacrifice a lane or player, but put together these really good team comps. And then even if they got behind early they were allowed to play around/through the disadvantage with superior team fighting, rotations, and/or team comp.
GOLD AND XP LEADS ARE MEANT TO BE SOMETHING TO GET YOU TO A WIN CONDITION, NOT THE WIN CONDITION ITSELF! It's just horrendous how easy it is to get to the point where a few players are so strong that team comps and champ synergy doesn't matter. And no one cares if solo q heroes complain about how frustrating it is to stomp during lane phase, but then lose because you can't team fight or control waves. Don't cry about it, learn all aspects of the game or take your beating and don't complain about how you don't understand why you keep losing.
The Tank Meta cometh, the people hated the Tanks for they told the truth, but when the Tanks left, the people wished they were back.
Dragons2 votesI think the level of advantage you get out of early leads is a little over the top right now. Sure maybe towers are harder to kill early, but now you get $ for killing plating so an individual person can get fed and snowball.
I've been playing since season 2 and I can say with 100% objectivity that in all the games I play myself, and all the games I watch on stream, I've never seen the game more one dimensional. At high levels of play, while it is still much more robust than low levels, is extremely focused on winning lane phase. People's champion choice is decided by lane matchup 95% of the time. The days where you could just pick a champ into a not so great matchup and just soft sacrifice the lane in favor of picking a champ who really synergies well with your team, or is a team counter rather than lane counter, is over.
Even if you watched/listened to pro play last season, the way the casters talk about closing out games has changed. It used to be "Well it looks like team X has accrued a 2k gold lead at 20 minutes, let's see how team Y plays around that gold deficit. They've got a couple options..." and so on. NOW it's more like "Well team X has accrued a 2k gold lead at 20 minutes, team Y is going to have to make a big miracle play here or it's pretty much looking like this one is over".
Think about when TSM and Cloud 9 were head and shoulders above the rest of NA teams. Against lower tier teams they would lean on the strength of their players and win lane phase, but when they played each other or a couple other higher tier teams, they would VERY often soft sacrifice a lane or player, but put together these really good team comps. And then even if they got behind early they were allowed to play around/through the disadvantage with superior team fighting, rotations, and/or team comp.
GOLD AND XP LEADS ARE MEANT TO BE SOMETHING TO GET YOU TO A WIN CONDITION, NOT THE WIN CONDITION ITSELF! It's just horrendous how easy it is to get to the point where a few players are so strong that team comps and champ synergy doesn't matter. And no one cares if solo q heroes complain about how frustrating it is to stomp during lane phase, but then lose because you can't team fight or control waves. Don't cry about it, learn all aspects of the game or take your beating and don't complain about how you don't understand why you keep losing.
Well said.
Power Cosmic9 votesIt's not just long games but a better, healthier pace to the play.
GigglesO1 votesHonestly if they want faster games they should have just made towers fall easier.
Make defending tower an actual objective that if you do well towers don't go down, not because they are hard to kill, but because the enemy doesn't get to hit them.
Power Cosmic1 votesI was thinking having champs that scale, scale slower. Stop leads getting too wide to fast. For example not a huge difference between 1/2 an item vs 1 items but the difference gets more noticeable as the game progresses.
Stracony8 votesor yano, an alternative game mode. Wait, too much IQ
Galaxyburstz8 votesI want my 80 minute Bronze V games back
Oh wait, I mean Bronze 4 now
IEatDolphins1 votes*Iron 4 now
Raiyza8 votesNahhhhhhh. Them internet cafe's man.
Oh, wait....
GFREEMEN8 votes90% of us do. Chinese dont. They want 10-15m games.
DuskDaUmbreon1 votesActually, a very small percentage of people do...
ModAcademy Kayn3 votesYou really can't prove that 90% number man. You could be completely right, but that's still a pulled out number from your ass unless you cite a source.
HeeroTX2 votesUnfortunately, Chinese probably make up much more than 10% now.
DNFVixen7 votesI don't understand this sudden hatred and aversion to strategy on the part of the "balance" team. Since when was being intelligent, calculating and strategic something to be shunned? Games today are so fast and SOOO BORING. Stop speeding the games up. Seriously. It's unbelievably stupid. And no, I don't need a break because I was having fun with League just fine before runes reforged went online.
I completely agree Runes Reforged ruined this game so much I doubt they will ever be able to recover the fanbase that quit.
stone the blacks5 votes"if we make games 12 minutes on average then soon 20 minutes will feel like a long game!" -riot balance team ~probably
Nea1043 votesIt's not sudden tho. It has been at least 1 whole year now.
It's intentional, and that's the saddest part.
Z3Sleeper2 votesI want strategy, not longer games.
The two aren't synonymous.
ORlANNAGRANDE2 votesHad a 97 minut game once in season 3 and it was great. No sarcasm. This season sucks ass
MasterDClone2 votesThe game is strategic as is, and is arguably in one of the most balanced spots rn. Longer games don't equal to more strategy, in most seasons were games were longer they were adc/tank metas which are also very boring to play. Right now each match lasts 25-30 min ish and i would say that is a pretty good length of time. Also not everyone wants to waste 45min- 1h of their lives on a single game of league
rayzo2 votesI've been getting more and more long games lately, many going past 40 minutes... Just play a scaling tank like Galio, Cho'Gath, or Sion and you're good to go.
Illabethe2 votesLong games exist and always have existed....
And here's the Caveat you never want to hear.....
WHEN PEOPLE ADAPT TO THE META, NEVER GIVE UP, AND PLAY WITH CAUTION.
Nevrankroaton2 votesI really don't get why many people here try to talk about strategy when none of you (and I include me in the whole) know how to properly use tempo, proper back timing, minion wave management (freezing, slow push), priority, analysis of the win conditions, proper mix of strategic aggression and defensive play, proper timing to roam or ward, preparing baron and knowing when to drop it, proper splitpushing, etc. And let's not talk about mechanics and positionning...
You can all say how the game is faster but none of you properly play it as a strategic level.
What did you all do that felt more strategic compared to now? What do you all do in 40 minuts that is more strategic than 25/30?
I agree, the game is WAY faster because there is clear objective now, especially compared to the older seasons, that allow you to further push your advantages. But is it less strategic? Na. In S2/S3, since everyone were a clow that didn't know how to proper TF, having even baron wouldn't assure the winning team to have an advantage and so games would drag along.
People talk about 30/40 min games like they were all INCREDIBLY heated and strategic, na man, many dragged along. Some of them were this awesome game that we all loved where it was tensed and you were playing good but so did the ennemy and you worked your ass off to find the proper way to win. But it is still the case now. Fuck, I have that in ARAM man. In freaking ARAM.
The ONLY thing I will ever accept in this whiny shitty gameplay section is that damage got front loaded with runes (it isn't much the case anymore, even the crazy DH became subpar) and that it tend to make fights be very unforgiving/faster than you want. It is why people always suck the tank meta like it was godlike when it wasn't, it is just that not having assassin/burst mage or pressure based laned (notably bot) meant fights were way more forgiving and less stressfull. And at our level, we make WAY WAY WAY too much mistakes so even a bad assassin will be able to punish some of them.
Just give better defensive options (either in tanks being better, defensive item feeling less terrible to build on carry and calming down some abuser case), remove old leblanc (what? What do you mean I am biased?) and trust me that this game will be just fine.
ZephyrDrake2 votesok... since when was "long games = strategy" a thing? like you want "strategy" back? sure but since when does that equates to long games? sorry but a free pass to the late game where nothing happens and anything that happens is pointless until you reach said late game. Where one teamfight means "I win/lose" is far from "strategy" in my eyes.
Leetri2 votesHow does long games = strategy? As someone who played most of my games during season 2-4, long games usually meant neither team could do anything until one team messed up and they lost because of a single team fight.
HeeroTX3 voteslong games means teams are more "even". Maybe that means both teams are good, maybe that means both teams are terrible, but it means the disparity is small. Most any experienced play can annihilate bots because players > bots. Challengers can annihilate bronze because challenger > bronze. If one team can't use their advantage to close out then they're not significantly better than their opponent.
Longer games are more "strategic" because the extra time means you have time to assess and adjust as needed. Fast games means you need to "react" quickly. Also, considering we don't have universal voice chat, slower games mean you have more time to type communication to your teammates. Whether or not any players USE these facts doesn't change that they exist.
I also don't think it's a coincidence that the year that League shifts to a higher kill snowball "fast-paced" META is the year that Korea gets knocked off in worlds.
DramaticalMurder2 votesBack in 2017, people were complaining the games were too long
Heos002 votesI don't want 40-50 games back tbh, i want longer teamfights, longer sieges, and longer 1v1's, things that are actually fun even if they do the game long last 5 min from the average of 25 min. :/
I believe there's a way to do it, but they seems like they want an easy path, a boring path
.
It would bring more people interested into game game without making their old loyal players leave the game.
Gall1 votesA lot of people are on the fence about wanting long games vs medium-ish games. Long games are great if they're GOOD GAMES, but horrid if you already know which side will win but still have to play another 10+ minutes. I like it when the clear winner can easily end the game with their lead.
Recently I've been having plenty of 30+ games, and they've been decent and I consider that long. The strong majority of all my matches end between 27-35 minutes on average, which I think is a nice game time.
Stracony1 votesits exactly the same, does not matter the game length. Difference is shorter games are decided at 5 min when one lane dies more than there are minutes in game instead of being decided well into the game after a few skirmishes and teamfights.
HeeroTX2 votesI think this is what CakeMix is saying, but just in case it isn't: I would prefer a game that is in doubt for 30 mins but takes another 10 min to end over either of the following (which are standard now):
I REALLY hope Nexus Blitz takes off and builds a following, because I feel like Riot keeps trying to setup modes for people that want fast games, but they don't PLAY them because the majority of the playerbase plays SR. So then they adjust SR to satisfy the people that shouldn't be playing it anyway.
LTK KoRo1 votesOnly ADCs and Mage mains want +35 minutes game, average game lasting 25-35 minutes is a perfect time anyway.
Lauchmelder2 votesI went from Tank Support main to mid main to tank top main. I want 35+ minute games because I don't have problems focusing for that time. I don't have ADHD and I'm not playing in an Internet Café either.
The Taco Kat1 votesI main Kat and I want those 35+ minute games. If you aren't aware, Kat excels early on and then takes a massive shit late game, but I still love the late game not being a one-shot fest.
It's disgusting when I play Viktor and one-shot someone with Q+AA/Lich Proc+E and they're dead (happened on Nexus Blitz very recently!). Even if I have a lead, never before could someone be instantaneously erased from the game. Tone down damage and there's an actual enjoyable game underneath all of this dogshit that Riot has put out for the past 3-4 years.
OneMustFall1 votesI am really starting to think people on these boards have no clue what the word "strategy" even means. It's like a blanket term you throw on to validate your complaints.
Longer games != Strategy
DuskDaUmbreon1 votesAnd I don't want them back.
Sure, it's strategy...At least when it's a long game in this meta.
When it's just another long game in a long series of them? It's not strategy. It's just a hypercarry meta. It's tedious then.
Longer games don't start with balance, anyways. They start with the community not immediately mashing the surrender button as soon as FB is given.
Handy Sandy 1 votesYour last 5 games are like 30+ minutes long, some going all the way to 40. How long do you want these games to be?
Meritas1 votesYou know, saying this really makes me believe the rose-tinted glasses/nostalgia theory. If you ask anyone who's coming from before it, they would say that Season 6 was the worst/nearly the worst. This is not my opinion(Season 7 was the worst imo), but it's just surprising to hear your definition of the game during S6, as it's exactly how people were describing the seasons that came before it for its duration.
I mean, the damage during S6 was the reason Armor Pen got reworked. And maybe it's just me(I got better?), but games feel at least as long as Season 6, I actually get more matches going over the 40 minutes mark now.
PandaSpectrum1 votesI'm only playing now because of the shorter game length. There is nothing more aggravating in a video game than feeling of being stuck in a long drawn-out game that you lost from the start but must play out because the team won't surrender...
Kaisha1 votesI find it funny how they added faster game modes... that nobody wanted to play. So instead of taking the hint they made the 1 game mode that was longer/more strategic (summoners rift) and made it shorter/mode snowbally.
ProjectDawn1 votesNot sure how fast = boring. I personally am not a fan of long games. Usually games today are long because players are dumb and don't know how to close out. Therefore I associate long with frustration.
I kind of agree with the sentiment. I mean, I would love more opportunities to come back, but think about the flip side. If you were the winning team, and you were absolutely stomping them, wouldn't you want to just close out the game and look for a more favorable matchup instead of giving them a sliver of a chance to come back? I would want to just put the losing team out of their misery. At least one enemy is probably tilted out of their mind and ruining the game for his team, so why keep them locked in the game? If you're stomping, quick victory is the best way to go, I feel. For closer matchups, the game already lasts for quite a while.
