what exactly is balance?

xDogMeatx·Apr 23, 2019·1 votes·1,300 views

i want to know a ideal situation where a champ is balanced vs whats broken without items of course. then put a balanced champ with items vs a broken one.

14 Comments

The JigSAWApr 23, 20193 votes

I'll give you a great example of broken vs balanced

Yasuo vs Xerath

Xerath requires mana to cast spells, Yasuo does not.
Xerath relies entirely on poking from a distance, Yasuo gets as close as possible but still has a ranged Q attack that hits around 700 units away.
Xerath is immobile and easily killed if he makes a single mistake. Yasuo has a dash he can cast with 0.5-0.1 second cooldown with a 1.3 second Q cooldown at max rank - Xerath requires at least 10 seconds for any spell at level 1.
Every attack by Xerath including his autos can be blocked by Yasuo's wind wall except his W since it comes from the sky.

With a Doran's Blade and one health potion, Yasuo can solo herald - don't believe me, try it in practice tool. So in this match, Yasuo can poke and poke and Xerath is backed to hug his turret, and everytime he aims his attacks Yasuo can block it or use his insane movement speed/dash to avoid - plus, if he doesn't, he can lifesteal off basics and his Q, plus his regenerating shield. Remember, if Xerath misses a skillshot he has cooldown and mana lost, if Yasuo misses anything there's no punishment as its right back up. Due to a mage's relatively low health throughout the game, they rely on distance attacks and do not have lifesteal or spellvamp (Miss you Will of the Ancients!) so they are sitting ducks.

Now if it was Annie vs Xerath it'd be rather fun and interesting - both have significant range, stuns, and it's really down to a battle of who can outplay who. Each has something the other doesn't, both have decent cooldown and mana requirements so it's a case of waiting for the right opportunity.

Balance means the champion is not weak but not overpowered - broken means the champion is consistently strong against many opponents and often people new to that champion/class of champions do well with them when they do poorly with others like them. There are four broken beyond belief champions in League - Yasuo, Yi, Garen, and Tryndamere (only due to the ult) and if you've noticed they all had buffs recently. Three out of the four have no mana and it just gets worse from there considering that their damage goes up and up until you see Garen 1v5'ing with one damage item and then healing for all his health in 8 seconds, or Yi being unable to be slowed while pausing his ult to heal 500 health and then using his true damage/alpha strike to score a triple and refresh his ult up to 35 seconds. Don't forget Tryn spinning under your turret, tanking 10 shots, and hitting his ult while beating you to death and spins away to heal for hundreds of health and avoid death! I'd rather fight Riven and Vayne any day over those four - they can be tough but they can be beaten a lot easier than those four.

xDogMeatxApr 23, 20191 votes

out of the broken champs i love garen lel. besides that i wish those champs got a rework but keep their core design intact (keep garen ult yi alpha yasuo.... well only his ult with good to keep its conditional trydemere.... well his ult is iconic yet unfair maybe add in a channel time and break CC on him during the CC moment maybe lessen his AD damage during ult like how olaf removes his armor/MR on ult.)

Kai GuyApr 23, 20191 votes

Your providing some really bad info here.

Windwall only blocks Xer E. QWR all can not be blocked, they are hitscan and do not have projectiles. E is easy to land on yas. Hit him when dashing, turns out that's a really predictable bit of mobility. Starting point is current position and its a straight line thru a minion.

If your getting poked out of lane by yas stacking 3 qs and your caught unaware that he has the ability to try and hit you with an ability broad cast be requiring 12 seconds to 9 seconds of set up then you kinda deserve to die to him over and over.

Also Xerath when ahead can remove squishy from the game by 100% to 0 with just his R at a range you cant counter him. Thankfully its hard to land.

ThingamajigApr 23, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=The JigSAW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hf3ThEhp,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-23T16:50:58.080+0000)

Every attack by Xerath including his autos can be blocked by Yasuo's wind wall except his W since it comes from the sky.

lol ofcourse you picked a direct counter

and ww only blocks his stun and autos learn first before you start throwing garbage at people

Kai GuyApr 23, 20192 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e31OSVZF77w&t=194s

xDogMeatxApr 23, 20192 votes

i got the whole thing there.

letsfeedtogetherApr 23, 20191 votes

balanced (by riot logic) : Vayne Riven broken : TahmKench

xDogMeatxApr 23, 20192 votes

whats a ideal balance in player logic though?

ThingamajigApr 23, 20191 votes

what?

xDogMeatxApr 23, 20191 votes

im saying what exactly does balanced mean in league terms?

ThingamajigApr 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

im saying what exactly does balanced mean in league terms?

balance means a champion has both situations they can pop off and situations they can be destroyed in

For instance Annie has her flash R and that combo is potentially game ending but it's balanced around her availability of Flash her Range is small compared to other mages she has no mobility and her damage is nothing great without her ultimate

a simple example

xDogMeatxApr 23, 20191 votes

is it better on annie to keep 3 stacks or 4 on tibbers due to his fury passive after summon or stun? thats a good example also.

GoldsmithSmartyApr 23, 20191 votes

Well, I don't know about naked champs, but nothing out scales Master Yi in late game scenario. If he gets his guinso's stacked and kills someone In a teamfight this may as well result in a pentakill. That is why he was and still is my favorite champion since 2010.

I consider Illaoi broken because her kit is way too strong. Specifically pulling out a soul. She is one of those characters who can 1v5 enemy team, being ahead of course.

You can outplay anything, no matter how broken it is. It all boils down to utility. Kayn has an ability to gank you bypassing your wards. Some characters can stun your whole team. Zed for example can kill your teammate using his ultimate and there is almost nothing that you can do, especially in solo queue and low mmr game.

In general, champions that have obscene mobility could be considered broken. Leblank, Kayn (debatable), Zed, Kassadin, etc.

xDogMeatxApr 23, 20191 votes

but you pointed out all assassins though in your "obscene mobility thats broken" statement.