QoL Change:Toggle on/off for Sunfire Cape?

Salt and Veigar·Oct 23, 2014·18 votes·1,201 views

Having a toggle for Sunfire Cape wouldn't change much, It would also be MUCH better if I didn't take the blue buff from my midlaner while I waited for them to take it

16 Comments

FrikgeekOct 23, 20148 votes

I don't think they should do this. Sunfire is already a very good item for dueling against melee AD tops because it gives you free damage just for staying alive. The only real counterplay to it is to let the lane push(since you can't turn it off) and then force tower aggro(since it does damage to you). If you made it a toggle it would be a must-rush item for most toplaners and not getting it would mean you'd lose almost every trade.

OyddAWqJ5rOct 23, 20145 votes

No it wouldn't. Sunfire has the simple tradeoff that other than the magic damage aura it does NOTHING. And many top laners already don't rush it for that reason and because half of them don't deal any damage without a damage item first. Plus Ryze never builds it and doesn't lose every trade. Jus sayin not all top laners are Shyvanna.

JunkοOct 23, 20142 votes

No it wouldn't. Sunfire has the simple tradeoff that other than the magic damage aura it does NOTHING.

Spirit Visage has one tradeoff, other than the increased healing it does NOTHING. Hydra has one tradeoff, other than the AoE physical lifesteal damage, it does NOTHING

Plus Ryze never builds it and doesn't lose every trade.

Are you trying to sound like an idiot or? That's like saying Zed doesn't buy AP and still wins every trade mid lane.

OyddAWqJ5rOct 23, 20141 votes

Are you trying to sound like an idiot or? That's like saying Zed doesn't buy AP and still wins every trade mid lane.

Why are you being so toxic/hostile? Totally uncalled for.

That aside what you just said is exactly what I just said: "...not all top laners are Shyvanna." Basically I'm saying not every top laner would build it as he is suggesting. Just as Zed wouldn't build Sunfire if he went top lane either.

Context man, context. Read it.

And as for Spirit Visage, not only does it have increased healing--it also has CDR.

And Hydra not only has AoE physical damage + lifesteal on that damage but it also has an active that does a stronger version of the passive effect and cancels all ability animations.

Basically, these items do more than 1 thing. Sunfire is just for bruisers/tanks to build for slightly less tankiness but some extra damage to keep them as a relevant, attention garnering threat.

And last of all, plz don't be so toxic. It's not nice :/

Quantum WeebOct 23, 20143 votes

But what's the tradeoff for BF sword or IE, since those tend to win bot. What's the tradeoff for Zhonya's Hourglass, it gives defense, utility and offense in one package.

The tradeoff for all items is the same, they cost gold and an item slot. There are only a few items in the entire game that don't follow this, and Sunfire is one of the biggest offenders.

LupusNoxOct 23, 20144 votes

Give it a toggle, its not like other items have a downside for things that they do.

For instance, if Zhonya's could only trigger when you hit 10% health, and not before then and you couldn't trigger it on your own, then it would be like sunfire in that, yes it gives you benefits but you have no way to control them

watbeshOct 23, 20143 votes

I don't really like the "just give it a toggle" idea(s), just because players possibly forget to toggle-on it back (yes I'm such a noob). I suggested a semi-auto toggle, and looks like it was rejected (or forgotten). But it's possible to prevent it from stealing buffs, with no drawbacks... Code "Sunfire's damage does not kill monsters" just like Quill Coat.

SynergyGarenNAOct 23, 20142 votes

sadly this would never come to be. The fact is has no toggle makes sunfire cost what it cost. If it had a toggle it most likely would cost 500-700 more gold.

Thats was the balancing factor to sunfire, if it has a toggle its just too good an item:P much like HoG

Vellich0rOct 23, 20141 votes

has riot stated that as a fact?

Rock RockburghOct 23, 20142 votes

They haven't, but it's a reasonable conclusion to draw. The Dota equivalent is Radiance, which DOES have a toggle-- and it's a must-buy on any illusion hero. Giving it a toggle would be a ridiculously huge buff, because you can disable it when you need to (A) stealth or (B) hold lane equilibrium. Forcing it to be always-on requires more risky plays in lane once it's up.

Vellich0rOct 23, 20142 votes

but then again it has disadvantages that seem unintended and would be better off with this QoL buff (I also don't know of any stealth champ that would get buffed by this off the top of my head) sunfire cape actually isnt even that strong of an item as it gives inferior stats compared to other tank items with a small AoE DOT that really needs pen to be effective honestly, this small buff wouldn't make it broken or even close to that, it would just mean that the bruisers who build it wouldn't be punished nearly as much for building something that deals damage. and if it becomes too powerful a small nerf to the damage wouldn't be too out of order.

KinjishiOct 23, 20142 votes

A toggle or number to press for Activation (with associated cooldown) would change it quite a bit and make it an annoying item to use/turn on repeatedly. If you don't want to take the buff from someone, then use a different armor.

the Anarchit3chtOct 23, 20142 votes

Pushing the lane with sunfire is a pretty minimal issue tbh. The main issue is drawing turret aggro, which I think is one of the main counter plays to building this item because you have to be more careful about pushing turrets/diving because you can easily draw the aggro due to the aoe damage.

Poro SupportOct 23, 20141 votes

The better question is why are you buying Sunfire right now.

AtrajOct 23, 20141 votes

dont listen to bronze kids they are bad and speak nonsens

Jungle Lux GodOct 24, 20141 votes

To be honest, I think Sunfire Cape having a toggle is probably not that important right now, but the change would be MANDATORY in season 5.

The changes to inhibitor turrets would make it downright impossible to take turrets as a team if the enemy team is protecting it and your tank has Sunfire, while its splitpushing uses for faster waveclear leaves it to compete with the new item ZZ'rot portal, which also helps push, but in the context of pushing down the turret rather than pushing the wave.

These factors, combined with aggro from passively passing by jungle camps and accidentally stealing buffs from teammates (which is why SotAG spike damage passive doesn't kill neutral monsters), makes the passive prevent you from being useful to your team in the way your team needs.

There would be absolutely no reason to pick Sunfire Cape over other items that do not provide the negatives that Sunfire has, especially considering Randuin's Omen is otherwise a Sunfire Cape with weaker stats without Sunfire's flame damage and Randuin's AS slow.