[Kindred] Make epic monsters ALWAYS give a passive stack

C9 Squeeky ·May 8, 2018·88 votes·19,452 views

I don't see why you can't get a Mark of the Kindred if you decide/are able to get early drakes. You currently need 8 marks before drake/epic monsters can be marked.

60 Comments

RagnaveilMay 8, 201828 votes

That doesn't sound like a bad idea at all. Helps kinda make up for how telegraphed her marks are, which puts her on bad footing vs skirmishers/high clearspeed champs.

EDIT- I don't play Kindred, but I sympathize with the people who love this champ and still play them even after patches and patches of being kicked around. I wanted to keep maining Urgot, and he's fallen far from grace due to people abusing items in his build. Both champs have had nothing addressed for them for quite a while.

BattalionMay 8, 201823 votes

They...it's....they

Kindred

RagnaveilMay 8, 20187 votes

Totally forgot. Been so long since i've honestly seen the champ that I just go with "her" in reference to Lamb being the primary of the two.

BattalionMay 9, 20182 votes

Just a joke mein friend. It's easy to understand why people think of the character as just lamb.

KZ EngelMay 8, 201817 votes

no one gives a fuck

tell me the last time you've played kindred and actually felt like you were playing both characters, rather than wolf feeling more like a pet.

Birdie SàndersMay 8, 201811 votes

Why is this getting downvoted? It's a legitimate issue, even if he is a little volatile about it.

BattalionMay 9, 20181 votes

The last time that I looked at my kit and realized the abilities are a 50/50 split of Lamb (Q/R) and Wolf (W/E) as well as PvE marks (Wolf) and Lamb marks (PvP). It's much better and feeling like you're playing two characters than Nunu & Willup or Willump (fuck whatever the Yeti is called), especially when Wolf is an aggressive Navi to your L(ink)amb.

Bob the ToastrMay 9, 20185 votes

Wolf's just a glorified particle effect at this point. [sg-soraka]

BattalionMay 9, 20181 votes

I'll refer back to the Nunu example:

...the abilities are a 50/50 split of Lamb (Q/R) and Wolf (W/E) as well as PvE marks (Wolf) and Lamb marks (PvP). It's much better and feeling like you're playing two characters than Nunu & Willup or Willump (fuck whatever the Yeti is called), especially when Wolf is an aggressive Navi to your L(ink)amb.

Literally Wolf will not shut the fuck up for more than 20 seconds at a time.

https://img00.deviantart.net/9370/i/2011/126/7/a/hey_listen_by_psywing-d3fpstp.png

LordGeovanniMay 9, 20181 votes

Lamb is the one hunting For the passive She also fires 3 of the shots for e (Cast and 2 shots) then wolf goes out. Wolf hungers for the pve stacks but lamb for the most part kills them and everything else. Nunu is 2 characters but Nunu we know isnt powerful hes just directing the yeti While lamb and wolf are 2 halfs of one whole but while Nunu is the brain and the yeti is everything else Lamb is the brain two arms and legs, body and wolf is a pinky finger.

BattalionMay 10, 20181 votes

The player is the one picking up the marks, they had to pick one of the models to be the main model to control because it'd be difficult for some people to control 2 separate character models at a time lol, unless you make them modes like Jayce stances then that's as good as it gets.

As for who kills what, good luck just using Q & R & Autos throughout the game. Wolf's W and Wolf's E (which regardless if kindred auto attacks 3 times) the damage on the 3rd shot is literally wolf and the largest damage in their entire kit, hands down, bar none.

Chibi BronzlifeMay 8, 201810 votes

I can stand behind this, as a non jungle player. It's a fair and valid suggestion. It is especially so because botlane is the focus of pressure right now, Kindreds should be rewarded for influencing the focus area of the map imo.

Side note, I'm pleased to see a suggestion that actually makes sense on the boards.

C9 Squeeky May 8, 20182 votes

hehe thank you :3

Sir PouncealotMay 8, 20189 votes

Even as someone who hates dealing with kindreds marks, that's not a bad idea.

KetiMay 8, 20185 votes

It was always a major gripe of mine, Because at a certain point in the game, it's actually way less risky to go for drag than it is to have to try for enemy wolves. Needing a bunch of marks and good rng to get a stack for drag is lame.

Good suggestion, hope rito implements it.

NaalithMay 8, 20183 votes

As a Kindred player, I 100% agree with this. I feel like we need some way to get PVE marks easier now that our early crabs are going to be heavily contested for juicy XP.

AzadetheMay 10, 20181 votes

First round Scuttles are going to spawn at both points. Which means the trick to 100% Ensure every mark is even easier. You just force the mark to spawn where you want it to, and enemy jungler can't do a thing about it.

Athenes LuluMay 8, 20183 votes

Kindred should get an additional bonus stack if the marked target is an epic monster.

Modl Ryden lMay 9, 20183 votes

Kindred wants to do a smite steal Kindred *Qs into pit and misses summoner 11 * Kindred gets rewarded anyways for poorly timing her smite Kindred Lamb: Well hunted, dear Wolf. Kindred face first into wall then dies Kindred Wolf: That was a fun chase!"

C9 Squeeky May 9, 20181 votes

giggle

Trias000May 9, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=l Ryden l,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hYwM01kL,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-05-09T03:16:35.491+0000)

gets rewarded anyways for poorly timing her smite

It obviously doesn't apply to cases where the enemy kills the monster

BoulderoxMay 8, 20182 votes

Can we talk about how the jungle change is going to really mess with her hard... Scuttle is her first few marks, and with such power in it I fear she will be even worse.

Trias000May 8, 20182 votes

Also, you should get stacks for kills and "assissts" on jungle monsters. Currently it only works like that on dragons and maybe herald/baron.

C9 Squeeky May 8, 20183 votes

I agree, or at least within the past 1.5s of damaging it, assuming your team secures the kill ofc.

AzadetheMay 10, 20182 votes

8 Marks isn't hard to get. You can actually predict Mark spawns and be at those spawns before the mark even appears, due to how the current system works.

A kindred who knows the method is nearly unstoppable, because she can have 7-8 marks by level 6, and there's not much another jungler can do about it, since you kill the second those marks spawn, and they have far more calculus to worry about. Junglers are reactionary to mark spawns, not predictive.

If you have that kind of marks that early, your stacks = 2-3 items worth of damage for the rest of the game.

And no. This isn't "sometimes." This is EVERY GAME for Kindreds who know the trick.

SwiftKitten88May 11, 20182 votes

i would like to point out.. to all of you... that... i cant find zero flaw in this argument... there is absolutely no reason why this shouldn't happen.

BattalionMay 8, 20181 votes

As a Kindred main, basically a 1-trick, I would really, really disagree with this. While I believe that they are way too telegraphed. In order for this to be allowable it'd have to be enemy jungle camps, or specifically enemy red & blue, which already mark, so it's difficult. The mark system, while really great, needs some work. I believe that jungle marks should be split between both friendly and enemy jungles.

Mark 1: Scuttle Mark 2: Enemy Gromp/Krugs Mark 3: Friendly Gromp/Raptors Mark 4: Enemy Krugs/Raptors/Gromp Mark 5: Friendly Krugs/Raptors/Gromp Mark 6: Enemy Blue/Red/Krugs Mark 7: Dragon/Rift Herald Mark 8: Dragon/Baron Mark 9: Dragon/Baron Mark 10+: Baron

Or something to that extent.

C9 Squeeky May 8, 20181 votes

Epic monster = elemental drake, rift herald or baron (Vilemaw on TT). Not blue/red buff are not epic, only large.

AirKingNeoMay 8, 20181 votes

how about we fix the fact you can't have a crit champion in the jungle?

Trias000May 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

how about we fix the fact you can't have a crit champion in the jungle?

What do you mean?

AirKingNeoMay 8, 20181 votes

you can't jungle and build crit in the same build.

Wínters DawnMay 8, 20183 votes

I build crit on kindred all the time. It works, have no idea what issues you're having. In fact last ranked game I played I went 14-3 as kindred, with crit.

PopcornBunniMay 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

you can't jungle and build crit in the same build.

item 3085 item 3094 are pretty core no matter what build you pick with her. Full crit is the most popular build in fact.

If you don't want to go that route, item 1419 item 3153 on-hit shred is also viable.

AirKingNeoMay 9, 20182 votes

Talking fundamentally that Crit in jungle is shit. You only get 50% crit unless you forego lifesteal or armor pen.

Kindred can't do onhit anymore since the passive change and E scaling with crit.

Elisza KitsuneMay 8, 20181 votes

{quoted}

how about we fix the fact you can't have a crit champion in the jungle?

Tryndamere Yasuo

AirKingNeoMay 8, 20181 votes

Wow I'm glad none of those are viable! Could it be that delaying your crit with a jungle item sucks?

CytheGuyMay 9, 20181 votes

When I play Trynd jg I build the basic jg item > Zeal > whichever zeal item I feel like OR full jg item if I need to farm. Occasionally if I feel ballsy on Yi I do this as well

Elisza KitsuneMay 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Wow I'm glad none of those are viable! Could it be that delaying your crit with a jungle item sucks?

At the very least Tryndamere would be viable. What about Twitch? Twitch jg works and you go crit after your jg item as well

PopcornBunniMay 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Wow I'm glad none of those are viable! Could it be that delaying your crit with a jungle item sucks? [sg-lux-2]

item 1412 item 3094 costs 775 gold less than a normal adc core. It costs even less than that considering your starting item isn't item 1055 450 gold and builds into your core items instead of being sold off later.

AirKingNeoMay 9, 20182 votes

Except going a jungle enchant forces you to have only 50% crit maximum.

AzadetheMay 10, 20181 votes

With new IE? No.......

AirKingNeoMay 11, 20181 votes

now you get 60%. 10 more....

while everyone else gets 100%

AzadetheMay 11, 20181 votes

Everyone else doesn't get 775 + Range and do spammable % damage while having a dash every time they auto, and get those marks GUARANTEED because of a lack of foresight in Mark design (you can program where the marks spawn as Kindred, if you know the rules of HOW they spawn, and kill the marks before they even show on the minimap for the opposing jungler to contest.

AirKingNeoMay 11, 20182 votes

775? What? Where the fuck did you get that number? The max is 750 at 25 passive stacks. (Base attack range is 500 btw)

What spammable % HP damage? The 16-12 second E cooldown that gives percent MISSING HEALTH damage? 16-12 is SPAMMABLE?

You actually can't 'program' how your marks spawn, but the average is maximum is 7 per game or so, nor could you kill them before they would know because they are completely random. The only way you could tell is if your knew how your opponent clears and both scuttles are down (for 0-3), but then they could predict the same exact way.

AzadetheMay 11, 20181 votes

I was just quoting from memory. off 25. Sue me.

Kindred has % Current HP on W, and Missing HP on E..... It's not just one % damage ability.

Wolf's Frenzy is Perma spam after you have 26% CDR. (Lasts 8.5 Seconds and the BASE CD is 18-14)

Mounting Dread is up about half the time at 30% CDR. (Lasts 4 Seconds and the BASE CD is 16-12)

And yes. you CAN program where marks spawn. If you do not know this trick, you're obviously not a good Kindred.

Hint: If there is one eligible camp up, it will inherit the next mark. Otherwise, it will be the first of Elible camps to spawn after the timer is up. They are NOT random. They follow the rules of which camps are eligible and follow a priority based on when camps were killed and what camps are still alive.

For example, if You have 1 Mark, you keep timers on Scuttles, Gromps, and Wraiths. If one camp is still up, it will automatically prioritize as the next mark. If you have all camps down, it will be the first camp that respawns.

In other words: Kill one Scuttle for a Mark. Protect the other scuttle, and make sure all Wraiths and Gromps are dead 45 seconds later. Camp Scuttle 2. It will 100% get the Mark.

2 Marks within the first 3:30 minutes of the game.

Then, you just need to keep making sure all but one eligible camp is dead. Be at that camp when 45 seconds roll around, and if you do this with precision, you can gain 7 Stacks by 6 minutes into the game.

You basically ignore all your other camps and only focus on setting up this pattern.

https://clips.twitch.tv/FantasticCogentSparrowImGlitch

Spawns only seem random to players who don't actually know Kindred and don't time things.

And no. this is insanely difficult for an OPPOSING Jungle to calculate, because they have the principal goal of providing for their team, getting red/blue buffs, and ganking lanes. There's too many things for an opponent to calculate than setting up a forced spawn. They would have to ALSO give up their Buffs and camp the same camps you're camping. By the time they are on Red/Blue buffs as possible marks, You already have 3 marks, so even getting near you is impossible unless they 2 man gank you. So you can just bully those spawns.

(I looked this up about 3 months ago when a smurfing Kindred literally was killing every mark and leaving the spawns as I arrived on Evelynn ..... after 2 Marks I literally was beelining as soon as I saw the marks spawn to find her. I'd arrive 2 seconds after spawn, and she would already be leaving the camp with the small wraiths chasing her. After she 1v5'd my team with 19 stacks, she tipped me off in the post game when I accused her of scripting.)

AirKingNeoMay 12, 20181 votes

I was just quoting from memory. off 25. Sue me.

AT TWENTY-FIVE STACKS! Unrealistic.

For example, if You have 1 Mark, you keep timers on Scuttles, Gromps, and Wraiths. If one camp is still up, it will automatically prioritize as the next mark. If you have all camps down, it will be the first camp that respawns.

Issue: Vision of 4 places on the map.

AzadetheMay 12, 20181 votes

It's not 4 places if you were the one who killed them, and you left one alive..... and are camping it.......

CojakMay 9, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I don't see why you can't get a Mark of the Kindred if you decide/are able to get early drakes. You currently need 8 marks before drake/epic monsters can be marked.

The truth is that the passive would need to be reworked, and probably to a lesser form. Stacks are SO important on Kindred. The difference between a lamb and FKIN BEAST. If stacks are given out too easily then she'll have power spikes and get nasty af. Then riot will nerf something (probs passive or the drake stacks without mark) and it will mute the change you wish to seek.

RagnaveilMay 10, 20181 votes

This rendition of the passive seems like a good fit for a nerfed version. They lost % current hp from autos (meaning a frequent user of BoTRK) which was because if they got a snowball lead with the passive, it was hard to stand against them. I also fear the clearspeed might suffer a terrible fate since they are planning on removing the AS on machete.