Put a penalty on all TRUE shield stacking

C9 Squeeky ·Apr 11, 2018·21 votes·9,719 views

With the exception of physical/magic-damage only shields

It feels so bad to see multiple shields on the same person, especially enemy carry but even on tanks who often have a shield of their own . When you have a on the enemy team , it's so frustrating to play against because you are doing no damage to them, even worse when their ADC has blood shield. We have 3 +heal/+shield power items, Revitalize, and Summon Aery on top of all this.

Either put a penalty on multiple/overlapping shields on same target, like you did with , or maybe make the most recently applied shield overwrite other shields. Or just nerf shields.

Edit: forgot Karma, Sona

39 Comments

Ok sure but whyApr 11, 201812 votes

Full ap Shen

Tails9016Apr 11, 20181 votes

Get your 2024 meta shit outta here

Ok sure but whyApr 12, 20181 votes

I mean I actually play him full AP, rushing an Ardent Censer even when I play Top lane

KirotheImmortalApr 11, 20185 votes

I think shields just shouldnt stack. IE Bloodthurst giving 100 shield jana givin 200. The target should just have 200 shield.

Also i think grivious wounds should effect shielding. Maybe targets effected by it take some % Directly to hp

C9 Squeeky Apr 11, 20183 votes

I like that, kinda like how TK's E works. BT should be an item to shore up a weakness (lack of sustain/shield support), not an item that makes your sustain support/mid even better.

I know Riot talked about the possibility of an anti-shield item but then they just release Irelia with the anti-shield passive. But what if the enemy bans her? Maybe we'll see something come mid-season. At least it's not as bad when Courage of the Colossus was OP on toplane tanks Nautilus Poppy .

KirotheImmortalApr 11, 20186 votes

{quoted}

I like that, kinda like how TK's E works. BT should be an item to shore up a weakness (lack of sustain/shield support), not an item that makes your sustain support/mid even better.

I know Riot talked about the possibility of an anti-shield item but then they just release with the anti-shield passive. But what if the enemy bans her? Maybe we'll see something come mid-season. At least it's not as bad when Courage of the Colossus was OP on toplane tanks .

Honestly i think making irellia antiel shield was an awefull idea. They will eventualy have to make some general counter to shields or the problem will never be solved. Healing has so many counters to it but sheilding does not. Thats the biggest issue to me currently.

Snowman ArcApr 11, 20181 votes

Nah, shields are temporary health, healing is permanent. That's why healing gets reduced and shields don't.

SammystormApr 11, 20182 votes

shields are quite a bit bigger though.

C9 Squeeky Apr 11, 20183 votes

If you're getting the full value of the shield (the shield breaks), it's as if you were healed that amount, because you are taking that extra amount of damage you wouldn't have otherwise if you didn't have a shield. If the shield doesn't break, you're still getting value.

Most shields also give additional power, at least from enchanter supports & Oriana. Sona heals AND shields, Karma gives MS, Janna+Lulu give combat power. Rakan can shield same target twice. Lux return shield doubles if outgoing shield hits an ally (and on PBE will give 1st shielded ally bonus dmg on next basic attack), Oriana shield (more accurately, The Ball) gives tankiness.

Charm With parmApr 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I think shields just shouldnt stack. IE Bloodthurst giving 100 shield jana givin 200. The target should just have 200 shield.

Also i think grivious wounds should effect shielding. Maybe targets effected by it take some % Directly to hp

that would be a good idea. it would make supports (or anyone that can shield) have to learn a new mechanic, which would be making sure not to overlap shields (aka wasting shields) by waiting till a shield has been broken to shield again, that way they can maximize the amount of damage that they shield. opposed to just mindlessly clicking on someone.

RainXBladeApr 11, 20185 votes

I think a good solution to this is make it so that when someone has a shield on, any subsequent shields/damage reduction applied to the target is cut in half

(Ex. ADC has BT shield up, Lulu shields ADC, Lulu's shield value is cut in half.)

I would've suggested GW applying on shields as well, but the support "mains" would probably downvote me for such an idea.

SteelflameApr 11, 20183 votes

I think shields stacking is OK. BUT shields shouldn't absorb 100% of the incoming damage directly to themself. They should absorb a %age of incoming damage, and a %age should get through. You can put various levers on this to effect how potent the direct shielding is on a case by case basis, with some having full protection (many self-applied only shields for instance, or other shields with insanely low uptime that are more of a reflexive parry than proactive shield (Looking at you 100% up-time Lulu shield)), while others may not fully protect from all incoming damage getting to the health bar.

Basic idea is that a shield would protect, but if you shield a 1 HP target for 1k HP, they may still go down if your shield is more of an anti-DPS shield than anti-death shield.

Some shields woulds also have AP ratios on that factor of how much damage it redirects to itself, so a support with high AP can make a true 100% protective shield, but the actual shield itself may be lower as a result compared to heal/shield power stacking.

C9 Squeeky Apr 11, 20181 votes

good response!

Raid Boss MordeApr 11, 20181 votes

Seems like it would make Mordekaiser's passive pretty useless, because he has some of the lowest base stats in the game because of the shield. How about actually nerfing the problematic shield champions instead of hitting champs who don't need nerfs?

Maybe just nerf the base shields of those support champs, but it's a lot more complicated than that and will take a lot more work to fix.

KirotheImmortalApr 11, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Raid Boss Morde,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HnoAbPeE,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2018-04-11T08:41:28.518+0000)

Seems like it would make Mordekaiser's passive pretty useless, because he has some of the lowest base stats in the game because of the shield. How about actually nerfing the problematic shield champions instead of hitting champs who don't need nerfs?

Maybe just nerf the base shields of those support champs, but it's a lot more complicated than that and will take a lot more work to fix.

Mord's "Shield" isnt actualy a shield. Its a resource like yasuo. it wouldnt be effected by any of these nerfs to shields. I would also like to add that the idea is to ner shield supports alot. you miss understand the proposal.

If BT only gives 100-150 shield and janna wants to try giving them even more say 200. she shouldnt give kog a 350 shield. instead it should be capped at her shield power of 200. This does not nerf champions like rakan, orn, malph, ect.

I dont know whatelse to say to get you to understand that this nerfs Those supports more then just shields. Honestly this would allow Karma and Lux to get their shielding potential back.

SteelflameApr 11, 20182 votes

You seemed to ignore the bit saying "You can put various levers on this to effect how potent the direct shielding is on a case by case basis, with some having full protection (many self-applied only shields for instance, or other shields with insanely low uptime that are more of a reflexive parry than proactive shield (Looking at you 100% up-time Lulu shield))"

JustaNewbApr 11, 20183 votes

It's called Diminishing Returns. Sadly I wouldn't trust the new devs to handle that calculation being as they don't seem to understand how Percentage works.

UnboundHadesApr 11, 20182 votes

what about rakans and malphs passives since they basically function as extra health this would hurt them if they were the target of friendly sheilding

KirotheImmortalApr 11, 20182 votes

{quoted}

what about rakans and malphs passives since they basically function as extra health this would hurt them if they were the target of friendly sheilding

Just like everything else. They would get compensated if it is shown as beeing a break factor for them. However idk why you wouls have rakan and a janna lol.

C9 Squeeky Apr 11, 20181 votes

Well Malphite gets triple bonus from W while his shield holds, and Rakan's regenerates even during combat. But like Kiro said, they can get compensated. But yeah maybe just making GW affect shields somehow might be the best way to go.

DuskDaUmbreonApr 11, 20182 votes

Rakan's shield also takes ages to regenerate.

The only way it's regenerating in the middle of combat is if he goes into combat without it up in the first place.

FrostQueensPlaneApr 11, 20182 votes

your window to kill an adc with a janna health mule is something like 5 seconds after you pop her shiled, this is if you manage to get janna to blow her ult

and riot wants to know why nobody wants to play this stupid game anymore

Teridax68Apr 11, 20182 votes

My view on this is: if it's not only possible, but common for a champion to be able to stack multiple shields on themselves, and not suffer any major consequences, then the environment itself is too full of shields, and needs to change. I think the biggest culprit at this point is itemization, where items like Locket massively contribute to the overall amount of shielding in the game, and on top of that enchanter supports frequently overlap with each other in how they provide shields. In the game's current state, the only way for supports to scale has been through healing and shielding power, which itself has contributed to shield creep in the game. Toning down the raw strength of many of these shields could help, but on top of that I also think many of them need a reduction in duration: many enchanter shields especially have such a high duration that they can have close to 100% uptime at max CDR, which means they end up not really providing their opponent with a window of vulnerability for them to exploit.

As a side note, I think a ton of shields just happen to be designed in a very boring manner, i.e. by mostly acting as extra health bars, when they could be vehicles for much more interesting power. Janna's E actually has this really interesting effect where the AD it provides is lost if the shield is popped: putting more emphasis on this kind of mechanic, i.e. by reducing the power of shields and giving them powerful bonuses that exist only while the shield lasts, could turn the tables on shielding, giving shielded players moments where they'd specifically want to avoid taking damage to their shields if it means keeping their combat bonuses. On the flipside, this mean that attackers could still feel rewarded for popping a champion's shields, even if they didn't do much to their health bar, because they would have severely weakened their opponent.

KirotheImmortalApr 11, 20182 votes

People are acting like riot hasnt already agreed multiple times that shields are an issue. But they keep using the recycled "Its not permanent unlike healing" line.

KirotheImmortalApr 11, 20181 votes

Bloodthurst should just have a new thing. IE lower hp more life steal. The passive rn is ither stupid over powered or never used.

KirotheImmortalApr 11, 20181 votes

Another idea is to make it so shields do not get benefits from armour nor magic resistance. However i would say that just making it so the shields dont hard stack is better

C9 Squeeky Apr 11, 20181 votes

I've thought of this before, could be the best way to go.

TNHA BaritoneApr 11, 20181 votes

All I'm saying is that if Karma's shields become weak, she will fall out of meta and became even trashier.

KirotheImmortalApr 11, 20181 votes

{quoted}

All I'm saying is that if Karma's shields become weak, she will fall out of meta and became even trashier.

Thats why she needs what we are offering as a fix. It would basicly make it so that shield champs CAN habe a stronger shields because it would remove stacking.

pZoCeDonnaApr 11, 20181 votes

Put a penalty on playing well.

That's what League needs more of, folks...

Great suggestion, OP.

C9 Squeeky Apr 11, 20183 votes

It's not a suggestion on playing well as it is based on team composition. Has nothing to do with farming, trading, macro, vision, juking skillshots or good decision-making. Unless you think shield-stacking comp is a good decision.

When a carry has an extra 1000HP from shields that have near 100% uptime, how is that playing well? It turns them from being a Glass Cannon to a Tank Cannon.

remakoroApr 11, 20181 votes

Should rito remove supports then? You kinda seem bothered by the fact that there is 5 and not 4 people on the other team. But whom are you going to blame when midlaner or someone else will oneshot you after you kill that squish?

Considering that you are in bronze im not surprized though that you have no idea how to link good use of shield with playing well.

C9 Squeeky Apr 11, 20181 votes

Rank has nothing to do with it. Apparently Rank in EU doesn't mean squat.

remakoroApr 11, 20181 votes

Fuck off dude. Mb riot should make everyones hp = 1 and remove shields from the game at all?

Automated RivenApr 11, 20181 votes

Honestly they just need to reduce shield durations. The issue is that they last so God damn long.

C9 Squeeky Apr 11, 20181 votes

Both are legitimate problems. A strong shield allows a carry to DPS longer than otherwise would, sometimes even using Lifesteal to heal back to full while the shields hold. But yeah if shield duration were a lot shorter, they would need precise timing when to use them.

Automated RivenApr 11, 20182 votes

If durations were shorter stacking wouldn't matter. Stacking a shit ton of 1.5 second shields on top of each other would be a huge waste as they wouldn't even get burned through before they dissipate. And it would increase the desperately needed skill cap of supports as it forces them to shield defensively instead of offensively.

Also Lulu having 100% uptime on shields is aids.

C9 Squeeky Apr 11, 20181 votes

Agreed. Shorter durations would make it difficult if not impossible to stack shields unless they had impeccable timing and even then, because of the shorter duration, you'll be able to damage them a lot sooner.

Automated RivenApr 11, 20181 votes

Well,it isn't even that. 2k worth of shields for 1 second is extremely inefficient as the shielded target is unlikely to receive 2k damage in that time frame. However 2k worth of shields for 5 seconds is quite efficient. Shorter duration shield actually insentivises not stacking. The only corner case situation where stacking that much temporary hp on someone is of they are that that exact moment taking burst from a assassin or burst mage. In which case, kudos, you deserve to be rewarded for reacting properly. However the drop it and forget it shields are incredibly bad for game design IMHO. If anything it should be a niche that 1 champion has (probably Janna because of her ad that comes with the shield, and how braindead she is to play allowing new players to pick up support)