Ryze: remove either Shield or MS on Q

C9 Squeeky ·Mar 31, 2018·8 votes·857 views

Does anybody else feel frustrated that gets a shield for successfully getting all of his damage in a spell rotation? Why should he deny you from extended trades? He gets his damage off & runs away with a big shield, even worse in mid/late game when he gets another shield with . gives more mana (yes I know the active was double nerfed in 8.6) and passive gives him even more mana based on AP which makes BOTH shields too powerful to deal with. I think Ryze should lose either the shield from his combo or the movespeed. Either remove MS but keep the shield to allow you to break the shield & do extended trades/chase him ; OR keep the MS but remove the shield so he can be vulnerable to damage. Right now Shield + MS allows him to dodge skillshots or just tank them head on.

9 Comments

OnecimusMar 31, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Does anybody else feel frustrated that gets a shield for successfully getting all of his damage in a spell rotation? Why should he deny you from extended trades? He gets his damage off & runs away with a big shield, even worse in mid/late game when he gets another shield with . gives more mana (yes I know the active was double nerfed in 8.6) and passive gives him even more mana based on AP which makes BOTH shields too powerful to deal with. I think Ryze should lose either the shield from his combo or the movespeed. Either remove MS but keep the shield to allow you to break the shield & do extended trades/chase him ; OR keep the MS but remove the shield so he can be vulnerable to damage. Right now Shield + MS allows him to dodge skillshots or just tank them head on.

To answer your first question: no. He gets that for playing well and doing what he's supposed to do. Getting two things for using three skills in a well timed rotation is not really crazy.

Ekko get a huge shield and can stun the whole enemy team with just one skill.

Karma can give a huge shield and massive MS to her whole team with two skills.

C9 Squeeky Mar 31, 20184 votes

Throwing 2 point-and-clicks and landing a Q is playing well? 2 things? Check your math. Damage + root + MS + shield in a rotation. that's at least 4 things.

Ekko requires precise timing and enemy misplay.

Karma Does not deal as much damage as Ryze when getting a MS shield and her shield strength doesn't scale with mana. Ryze passive + signature item empowers his shield

OnecimusMar 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Throwing 2 point-and-clicks and landing a Q is playing well? 2 things? Check your math. Damage + root + MS + shield in a rotation. that's at least 4 things.

requires precise timing and enemy misplay.

Does not deal as much damage as when getting a MS shield and her shield strength doesn't scale with mana. Ryze passive + signature item empowers his shield

In order for Ryze to hit a q on a champion it requires just as much of a misplay as with Ekko (not standing behind minions or by minions that have runes on them). Except Ryze's q is a skillshot that hit the first target, but Ekko's W takes up half a lane.

And true, your right, her shield per capita is not quite as strong, that would be ridiculous. But that's because, again, she can give it to her whole team. Ryze is a reward for getting a good rotation and it's only for himself.

My point is that you are making it sound like a simple thing for Ryze just run up and do a full rotation to get a two second (admittedly large) shield and that it's ridiculous that he gets two bonuses for doing that. But there are many champions that can get just about as much worth out of one skill, whereas Ryze is getting that from using almost all of his.

C9 Squeeky Apr 1, 20181 votes

Ryze roots his target which pretty much guarantees he hits his Q on them. He's one of the worst offenders when it comes to splitpushers. I wouldn't mind him getting a shield if he wasn't able to get a shield so damn often with the amount of damage he pumps out. Viktor also has mana shield/ms on Q but he pretty much requires ult to put out the same damage as Ryze can in 1 or 2 rotations. I just don't see why he should get so much safety when it isn't as hard to consume his 2 runes as you make it out to be (using minions to block etc.)

SEKAIApr 1, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Ryze roots his target which pretty much guarantees he hits his Q on them. He's one of the worst offenders when it comes to splitpushers. I wouldn't mind him getting a shield if he wasn't able to get a shield so damn often with the amount of damage he pumps out. also has mana shield/ms on Q but he pretty much requires ult to put out the same damage as Ryze can in 1 or 2 rotations. I just don't see why he should get so much safety when it isn't as hard to consume his 2 runes as you make it out to be (using minions to block etc.)

The combo that gives him a shield is a suboptimal combo.

His real DPS combo does not grant him a shield due to how it's cycled (because to abuse his refresh interaction with his Q to get off fat damage, it requires Ryze to alternate W and E in-between Qs, which makes stacking Rune not possible if Ryze wants to maximise his damage output, given it requires him to cast E and W together or taking a while longer and cast E twice. Sure if you do WEQ/EWQ or E->wait->EQ then Q also hits more on top of the shield, but typically the combo ends there and can not chain further given such rotation means once you gain the shield, all of your spells are on CD and you need to wait until E comes back again at the very least which takes about 2 to 3 seconds after that typically; this will remain the case until Ryze caps his CDR and/or reach towards later stages of the game).

In other words, it's generally a choice between offence and defence, more DPS or less DPS but with a shield.

I think it's reasonable.

C9 Squeeky Apr 1, 20181 votes

Have fun playing against a shield stacking Ryze then.

ZackTheWaffleManMar 31, 20181 votes

If you do the QEWQEQ/QWEQEQ combo, it's technically not the full damage combo. That's QEQWQEQ, which doesn't grant a shield.

130xMar 31, 20181 votes

I hate smart cast. That is why Ryze is dumb and needs to be deleted. No one even actually presses the damn buttons

SEKAIMar 31, 20182 votes

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I hate smart cast. That is why Ryze is dumb and needs to be deleted. No one even actually presses the damn buttons

All smart cast does is eliminating mouse clicks that are needed to confirm a spell casting after pressing QWER in traditional scheme, and instead the spells are cast as soon as you press QWER. It does not eliminate the need to press "buttons" ie QWER.

I think you may be confusing it with macros which is present in other games or even encouraged like WoW, where players are allowed to press a button and have it automatically chain a combo; but any gameplay macro is illegal in League and considered a form of cheating.