Riot is killing the game with bringing solo queue back, here's how and why

The Cane Master·Oct 13, 2016·7 votes·4,847 views

Let's start off with the chronological list of events.

Season 6: Riot introduces Dynamic Queue (imho the best feature ever).

As a psychologist, I can honestly say that people started hating it Dynamic Queue straight away because people in general don't like to change and adapt. In my honest opinion, the same would happen with Solo Queue if it never existed. Nevertheless, players then use Dynamic Queue as an excuse for the lack of skill that they are unable to admit or even spot if they wanted to evaluate themselves. What really happened was people stop arguing for roles, toxicity in champion selection is gone, players are finally able to enjoy climbing both solo and with as many teammates as they'd like, advanced strategies and comps that are only possible with intense communication and team practice finally see the light of the day. Everything goes well, even number of people playing ranked never decreased one bit, it even increased.

Season7: Riot decides to reverse all this.

You ask yourself why would Riot do this, and even why am right, and why is the title a doomsayer? Because what will happen will look this: The Flex Queue (Dynamic Queue replacement) will get a significant drop in number of players. As solo players make the most of LoL player base, the number of people needed to queue up with the similar MMR and at the same time to get matchmade is really high, thus auto-fill turns on. This fucks up the 3's and 4's premades, playing off roles, and losing on everything they wanted to showcase. The arguing for roles starts again, toxicity rises, solo players (that are mostly lonely, pathetic and egoistic people) are happy. Premades stop playing Flex Queue, maybe even quit LoL, and why? Because people aren't able to play a team game with already known teammates (even real life friends)?

Riot please make some sense here. LoL is supposed to be a team game, not a single player game where you work with other single player gamers towards a goal that you all have a different strategy in mind on how to achieve. And even if you'd somehow like share your strategy, you don't have the voice communication tool in game. And even if you had it, 2 minutes of champion selection chat/talk with strangers cannot replace the endless hours of friendship and practice with premades.

106 Comments

DroogzyOct 13, 201613 votes

Riot please make some sense here. LoL is supposed to be a team game, not a single player game where you work with other single player gamers towards a goal that you all have a different strategy in mind on how to achieve. And even if you'd somehow like share your strategy, you don't have the voice communication tool in game. And even if you had it, 2 minutes of champion selection chat/talk with strangers cannot replace the endless hours of friendship and practice with premades.

Actually, that's exactly what ranked was/is about. Your ability to win and win consistently, regardless of the circumstances presented you (barring extreme ones like feeding and afks). Team rank was about your ability to communicate and use your team synergy to win against other teams.

When you start to mix the two, there becomes an inherent advantage due to team having higher levels of coordination and synergy. I know this from personal experience in this game as a solo player and also from other games like Call of Duty and Overwatch where I play exclusively in pre mades (hence if you were to look at my W/L ratio in those games, it's through the roof. OW was around 76% and COD was even higher at 93% in TDM).

Competitive is suppose to be about pitting players on equal playing field. You yourself said in that same paragraph I quoted that pre mades can have hours of practice together to get better. Explain to me how this would equate to a level playing field when you go up against solo players who have never met each other until that very moment?

You're right about one thing though, people hate change and are resistant to anything that poses as a drastic departure from standard. While this was a change of a high scale, it brought about several fundamental problems with it which is what people disliked: you simply can not mix pre mades with solo in a competitive environment. Even if it only happens once out of every 10 matches, it's still not acceptable.

Voice communication, while is nice especially in pre-mades, isn't particularly necessary, pings work well provided people aren't abusing it or using it to troll. If I'm playing as Nautilius and ping target on their ADC followed by ulting, it's not rocket science to figure out what's going on. Some of the most elite teams/premades are currently at worlds despite language gap being an issue. Being a C9 fan boy, I know that Impact when he first joined, knew very little English, thus pings were often the go to for communications.

DQ (The merge of pre mades with solos) had a fundamental problem right from the very beginning of its implementation. Despite having an entire season to try and fix this, they weren't able to get to a point where it worked well hence reverting and getting rid of it.

Riot very rarely ever goes back on a decision, especially one of this magnitude. The fact they decided to revert DQ in of itself should be enough proof there was a problem with it.

Desolas ArteriusOct 13, 20163 votes

I actually agree with both of you, funny enough.

I think the real issue with both Solo and Dynamic is they just didn't get enough fine tuning to prepare for any type of mistake or issue that might occur. SoloQ was boring and difficult for friends to play together, especially if you had 3-4 people who wanted to play ranked with you. DynamicQ is a nightmare for Solo players since you have a harder time communicating efficiently with the premades in your group who are more than likely using coms (though not a guaranteed).

They both had pros and cons, but neither is better than the other.

Now, will Flex/Solo for Season 7 kill the game? No, not really. But it might just cause wait time issues and perhaps more need for Auto-fill since the queues will be split into two groups.

Who knows though.

I personally enjoyed Dynamic Q just because I play with a lot of friends and family, but sometimes never had enough for 5s nor could we all schedule to be on: but I still understand the appeal of SoloQ since not everyone plays with other people.

DroogzyOct 13, 20163 votes

I agree, there is a fundamental flaw with the solo queue/team queue in that you couldn't play as 3-4 group. I also agree that DQ also had a flaw in that solo players have a harder time communicating efficiently then those in premades.

I do disagree that neither is better than the other.

The team/solo as it stands is a better system. Competitive is about even playing fields for both sides. By introducing premades v.s. solo, you're tilting the playing field in one team's favor. Team/solo restriction, while not perfect, almost always guaranteed a level playing field. Even in the event of duos in the solo ladder, it was still realistically possible to beat duos.

Desolas ArteriusOct 13, 20163 votes

I disagree unfortunately. The playing field in rank is never going to be even, regardless if we're in SoloQ or DQ.

It's not because of coms or premades though, it's because of smurfs. Smurfs are the reason competitive is muddy. A Diamond+ smurf could easily carry games regardless if they're in SoloQ or DQ. That isn't fair to lower elo players regardless of the queue since they'll never know where they truly place due to the smurfs single-handily winning games or purposefully losing games to place lower.

I will admit however, being in a premade has its perks compared to being solo, but a premade of 5 very rarely goes against a full team of Solos. Premades are usually pit against other premades, so there is some type of leverage to making the playing fields fair. But again, the existence of a premade isn't what causes the unfair advantage; it's who is in the premade that does. Which sometimes is a smurf of higher elo playing with their lower elo friends.

That was just as common in SoloQ as it was in DQ. So to me, neither system was inherently better since both had their major flaws.

I'm not bashing SQ, I think it was good for what it did, but I can't agree it is a better system. It was still flawed just as much as DQ was.

In my opinion, if we fixed the issue with smurfs and made ranking based on your individual performance (meaning if you average point/skill wise at Bronze level, then you'll more than likely be placed in Bronze even if you win 8/10 games). The placement system is honestly in need of a rework because basing your elo on your overall wins/losses doesn't seem to be effective when it comes to identifying a player's immediate skill level. Yeah, the system will eventually work itself out, but that's only over time if the player keeps playing ranked. The placement game system is pretty outdated and probably should be looked into come the LCU, or even during S7 ranked season.

Either way, I don't think being on coms or being in a premade is that much of an issue in DQ, since premades majority of the time go against similar built premades. I just think it's the smurfs that are really causing the issues. Not saying having a smurf is bad, but it's definitely not helping the Ranked integrity, that's for sure.

Just my opinion though. I do appreciate you willing to talk about this professionally :) It's quite refreshing to have an actual debate instead of being hit with Ad hominems haha.

DroogzyOct 14, 20162 votes

OMG YOU'RE SO WRONG FACK YOU! (ad hominems ad hominems) /sarcasm

In all seriousness though, to each his own, its really a matter of opinion at this point.

I think you are right that the problem of smurfs does create an issue of level playing field, but to me that's an issue that is prevalent in both of the two forms of rank play, so to me, it seems to be a problem that is entirely separate from the discussion of mixing premades with solos. Smurfing is not really contingent on the premades/solos.

It's a variable that Riot has deemed out of their control unfortunately. However the ability to control whether people can play with each other in premades is something they do have control over. Would be nice to tackle the smurf issue, but I honestly don't know how they would do so in a healthy manner.

StephenizgodOct 13, 20163 votes

Actually I believe Ranked was originally basically Dynamic Queue but was changed early on. It became Solo, but it was meant to be Team which is why Dynamic Queue was implemented, they wanted it to go back to that.

Mixing the two is not ideal but it is necessary as both would suffer if they were split.

The issue with DQ was more community backlash rather than actual flaws with the system. The flaws it did have were more apparent at higher elo's (such as Diamond and above) anyways, and most of the flaws at all elo's were being fixed towards the end. The community went into DQ with the opinion it was bad before they even tried it, they refused to change their opinions and instead of trying to work with Riot they stuck to the demand it should be removed. It was not a perfect system at all, but I believe if we had, as a community, gone into this with a more positive outlook we would have been able to make DQ work for everyone.

They are not reverting DQ they are turning it into Flex Ranked and creating Solo/Duo again.

DroogzyOct 14, 20161 votes

Neither system is ideal, I think everyone can agree on that. They both have pros and cons.

I think the big reason for the backlash was in part an overreaction. But there was definitely some merit: playing against premades as a solo player is just flat out not fun. Period. Especially when you're locked into that game for the bare minimum of 20 minutes. No serious solo players want to deal with it, no serious solo player wants to even run the risk of it happening. Period.

No matter how much Riot was going to work towards addressing the problem, just the possibility of knowing that there is a chance you can get matched against one tends to leave a sour taste in people's mouth.

DQ if you asked me, and I mean this as respectively as possible, was doomed to fail from the start. People are pessimistic by nature and resistant to change as you pointed out. So if you make a change which is going to have a clear negative impact on a large portion of the playerbase, its not rocket science to figure out how they're going to react to it.

So when all this couple with the fact it took nearly entire season to try and provide solutions to the problem, its going to create a huge shit storm, especially when the solutions appear to be in near direct opposition to what DQ was trying to do (Limiting high rank to solo/duo, wut?). When you start to address problems by making exceptions to the system, its going to start raising questions about the faith in said system.

As a solo player, I and many many others gained nothing from this DQ update and we took a hit. And for what? For a very very minor portion of the community.

You could argue that because its for such a minor group of people, it shouldn't be a big deal, which is fair. But its still makes solo players salty that our gameplay is being compromised for such a small group of players.

The premises of mixing premades with solos in a competitive environment was never going to work, even if they minimized the matchmaking chances to less than 5%, people would still abhor it and prefer the older system. It only takes one game out of 20 to leave a negative taste in people's mouth about the experience.

When you throw in the issue of people following their favorite streamer and they experience problems with the new system as well, but on a much higher scale, that's only going to exacerbate the issue even greater (yay herd mentality!). Especially considering some of the "solutions" Riot decided upon to fix for higher rank players just made zero sense and screamed we have no idea what the heck we are doing.

StephenizgodOct 14, 20161 votes

That mind set is a large part of why DQ was so hated, you think there is a possibility that you will play with or against premades and so you automatically go into DQ hating it. This is fine, but instead of saying "Omg premades, this system is garbage, remove it rito", try and think how to solve this issue or alleviate some of the hardships. We may have been able to figure out a better system, there are millions of us and if we all put our minds to it i am sure someone could come up with a good idea.

I understand the Solo vs Premade communities and how DQ clearly favored one over the other, but there is something that is misunderstood here. Ranked was originally DQ but was changed to Solo/Duo, so Riot clearly intended for it to be DQ. Is it so wrong they wanted to focus the game back towards that? I don't think so, i think they didn't like how Ranked necessarily played out and wanted to try and something to change it.

The only issues I have with DQ is how it screwed up the entire ranked ladder as far as skill goes. This is why I don't care that it is being split, to me Solo and Premades were never an issue, but this boosting and people getting to undeserved ranks is the biggest flaw. That is not even DQ's fault to be honest, you are intended to get further by playing with your friends, but to a degree... A Bronze V player shouldn't suddenly be high gold or even Silver. Then there are extreme cases of boosting where you have Bronze/Silvers in Plat and Plats in high Diamond.

SlythionOct 13, 201613 votes

What really happened was people stop arguing for roles, toxicity in champion selection is gone

that was the new champ select, not DQ. Champ select was a received with a largely positive response, DQ wasn't (which kind of defies your "people hate change theory" as well

Nevertheless, players then use Dynamic Queue as an excuse for the lack of skill that they are unable to admit or even spot if they wanted to evaluate themselves.

Except for the fact that DQ was an incredibly innaccurate way to judge an individuals skill. At it's very nature, you are being ranked with a group, so why on earth does everyone in the group get an individual ranking when they obviously didn't earn it by themselves? It's no secret that DQ messed with matchmaking (Riot themselves even admitted it). It's also no secret that groups have an obviously better communication advantage than others...it's an incredibly innacurate system that I have trouble justifying for anything, especially for the "but I want to play with friends" excuse

players are finally able to enjoy climbing both solo and with as many teammates as they'd like

once again, the entire integrity of ranked as well as the balance of power for actual solo/duo players were sacrificed...so that friends could play together? Go make a 5-man team or play normals, don't screw everything up for such a silly "but my friends!" argument

advanced strategies and comps that are only possible with intense communication and team practice finally see the light of the day.

cough 5-man teams are a thing cough

Everything goes well, even number of people playing ranked never decreased one bit, it even increased.

well obviously xD this isn't even something to praise DQ about, all those people that started playing ranked are doing it because they think it's cool to play with friends. They don't actually want to grind or put dedication, they saw that they could bring their norms mentality to ranked and so they did

I'm getting tired of quoting you so I'll just say this about your 2nd part:

Having 2 queues is obviously bad because it splits the community. Nobody wanted that until they realized that it was either all DQ or 2 queues...I guess we got the best of the two bad choices we got.
If solo players make the most of the community (which they do), solo queuers should've never been massively attacked by DQ. They lost so much influence in the game it was almost a joke that 4-mans were considered more healthy to ranked than solo queue players
3/4man premades have no place in ranked. It screws with matchmaking, creates unfair communication advantages, undercuts the influence of solo players, screws with the integrity of ranked (once again, how can anyone justify giving an individual of a group the Diamond 5 ranked when it was really the entire group of 3-4 mans doing the work...that literally makes absolutely no sense in a ranked system that focuses on individual skill...) #/4 man premades are less important than 1/2/5 man players and you can't have both
Once again, the "arguing over roles" and "champ select toxicity" where solved by the champ select changes, not dynamic queue

solo players (that are mostly lonely, pathetic and egoistic people) are happy

OH BUDDY THIS ONE I'LL QUOTE FOR YA!

you...holy crap dude, what the actual fuck. What on earth goes up there in your mind where you think that solo queuers, the very foundation of league since beta, the sub-part of the league community that is essential for every match ever, the sub-community that ranked is meant for, seeing how it gives out individual rankings (aka, SINGLE rankings for SINGLE players) are less important than you and your buds that want to screw up the system just so you have a mode to play together in outside of...oh wait...ranked was the only mode you couldn't play together in. Jeesus christ dude, how selfish can you get xD

surely as a

psychologist

you know that insulting your intended audience loses respect and makes your points pretty much useless (although all your arguments were shitty anyways) so why on earth would you insult the largest and most fundamental playerbase of league when you're trying reason with them. Holy hell dude, that was just stupid af

not to mention how hypocritical that was! you have no foundation or reasonable argument to prove that solo players are lonely, pathetic, or egotistical. What a fundamentally stupid cheap shot that only highlights your toxicness where you take a shot at players without any knowledge of them. What a classic case of a superiority complex.

moving on

who tf cares if 3-4mans stop playing ranked? They are a tiny percentage of the league community and they lasted years without ranked (and for good reasons that players have pointed out earlier). If they have become so dependent on ranked, literally the only gamemode they can't play with their friends on, that's some serious problems with the players right there, not the system.
as for the "ranked was meant for teams, not individual players" well you are just blatantly wrong. Solo queue, as stated in the very name itself, was designed to determine a solo player's skill. You were rated on how well you could work with teammates and how reliable you as an independent variable. If you wanted to focus on team play (note* a full team just like any other game) you could play norms or the very handy and blatantly obvious mode for teams: 5-man ranked

#fin

The Cane MasterOct 13, 20161 votes

Except League of Legends is TEAM GAME. 5v5, not 1v1, meaning that it wasn't ever supposed to be played by solo players. Since growing a player base isn't possible without solo players, Riot had Solo Queue present up until the point when enough premade groups formed, thus introduced Dynamic Queue and scrapped Solo Queue.

With Solo Queue back, the Flex Queue (Dynamic Queue replacement) will get a significant drop in number of players. As solo players make a siginificant chunk of ranked players, the number of people needed to queue up with the similar MMR and at the same time to get matchmade in Flex Queue gets really high, thus auto-fill turns on. This fucks up the 3's and 4's premades, playing off roles, and losing on everything they wanted to showcase. The arguing for roles starts again, toxicity rises, while solo players are happy. Premades stop playing Flex Queue, probably even quit LoL. And didn't I mention that League of Legends is 5v5 team game, while Solo Queue is 1+1+1+1+1 vs 1+1+1+1+1?

If you'd like to measure an individual skill, go play chess, or a modern card version of it called Hearstone, I heard they provide the most accurate elos of any sports out there.

SlythionOct 13, 20164 votes

what part of the ranked mode being about individual skill don't you get? Like, it gives players individual rankings ffs, how much clearer can it be? It was called Solo Queue because everything about it was to judge your individual skill. If you wanted a team score, you formed a 5-man team.

How does giving individual scores among a group make any sense at all? The game rewards you/gives your rank based purely on wins and losses which comes from an individual player being able to adapt to his teammates while remaining a reliable variable in games. It's still a team game obviously, or one of the components in determining your ranked wouldn't be about how well you can work with teammates. Unfortunately, when you have one team that is guaranteed to have 5 reliable teammates that work well together (premades) and get a free pass by this aspect of ranked, it creates an unfair environment. There is literally no way to incorporate 4-man premades into ranked without screwing over solo players.

So once again, of course it is a team game because one of the variables that determines an individual's rank is about how well he/she can work with their teammates. Premades completely bypass this barrier and it destroys the integrity and entire purpose of ranked, which is to determine a player's individual skill.

And idk why you repeated yourself about the competition between flex and solo queue. I already explained to you how 3/4 man premades are a small, niche group of league and how they aren't more important and worth sacrificing the ranked integrity for 1/2/5 man groups.

and I'll say the same thing again (just as every one else in this thread has)

CHAMP SELECT IS NOT THE SAME AS DQ

stop saying

The arguing for roles starts again, toxicity rises

because it's completely false! Everyone on this thread has told you about this, idk why you still think champ select is the same as DQ xD

the weeabooOct 13, 20169 votes

If you wanna play premades go ahead. In Flex Queue...

EedatOct 13, 20168 votes

A massive flaw with your argument is you seem to think the new champ select and dynamic queue are the same thing.

So let me reiterate again

Dynamic queue is a completely separate entity from the new champ select

SoloQ will be back next year with the current champ select where you pick your preferred roles

FFS stop spreading misinformation

Akali is SO HOTOct 13, 20167 votes

Yeah they're killing the game for all of the people that got boosted by abusing the system.

The Cane MasterOct 13, 20161 votes

What is the number of these players? You do know that boosting is violation of the Code of Conduct, thus illegal, detectable and punished by Riot? Dynamic Queue doesn't allow players with more than one league to queue up together. In plat it's even less, and in Diamond+ we have even had duoq as a max party size.

Z StatisticOct 13, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hVQajdcx,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2016-10-13T19:51:23.225+0000)

thus illegal

This shit isn't illegal. Breaking a contact is not illegal.
Getting carried by your friends is not boosting; it isn't against ToS.

The Cane MasterOct 13, 20161 votes

Dynamic Queue has ranked restrictions, meaning that you cannot queue up with more than one league difference between you and any premade. In Platinum it's down to 3 divisions, in Dia+ we have been having duoq as the max party size.

Now think about if Solo Queue didn't have boosted and carried players, there were more actually.

Sniper 0Oct 13, 20163 votes

So that stops someone from making a smurf.....?

BestTristMyHausOct 13, 20165 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hVQajdcx,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2016-10-13T19:51:23.225+0000)

You do know that boosting is violation of the Code of Conduct, thus illegal, detectable and punished by Riot?

Detectable? Not remotely. Punished by Riot? hahaha, not consistently. Not even in a majority of cases. Yes, it DOES happen but not so much as to be a real deterrent. Also, by the Code of Conduct, it is "against the rules" to boost by means of playing ON someone else's account. It is NOT against the rules for someone to "boost" by teaming up with them. I'm not saying Riot ENCOURAGES it, but with Dyna-Q it is far from disallowed.

Also, just to note, it's also "against the rules" to harass and verbally abuse people in game, and again, not saying NO ONE gets punished for that, but it still happens ALL the time.

The Cane MasterOct 13, 20161 votes

Detectable? Not remotely. Punished by Riot? hahaha, not consistently. Not even in a majority of cases. Yes, it DOES happen but not so much as to be a real deterrent.

Do you have any proof of any player being boosted? If so, please provide an op.gg profile or any of that sort. I have none so far.

Also, by the Code of Conduct, it is "against the rules" to boost by means of playing ON someone else's account. It is NOT against the rules for someone to "boost" by teaming up with them. I'm not saying Riot ENCOURAGES it, but with Dyna-Q it is far from disallowed.

Also, just to note, it's also "against the rules" to harass and verbally abuse people in game, and again, not saying NO ONE gets punished for that, but it still happens ALL the time.

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=BESTTRISTMYHAUS

Yes in bronze, it is the worst situation regardless. By the way you started playing League only this season, you haven't experienced Solo Queue in Seasons 1-3. As a veteran diamond player I did, and that happens when players are forced to play a role they don't want to. As a bronze player, you are also suffering from an illusion of your skill. If you are skilled enough, there is no way you can't climb to any league and division, including challenger.

BestTristMyHausOct 13, 20164 votes

I'll say only that this isn't my main. And if you think boosters boost people USING their main, you're a fool.

The Cane MasterOct 13, 20161 votes

I'll say only that this isn't my main.

Please provide your main Summoner Name bronzie. Don't think I won't add that player to check and provide a screenshot if it's some random diamond+ IGN.

And if you think boosters boost people USING their main, you're a fool.

Riot is keeping a good job of hunting boosters, I have yet to stumble upon a boosted player in diamond+.

BestTristMyHausOct 13, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hVQajdcx,comment-id=000a00000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-13T20:32:32.186+0000)

Please provide your main Summoner Name bronzie. Don't think I won't add that player to check and provide a screenshot if it's some random diamond+ IGN.

So I can have "e-peen" in your Dyna-Q rant thread. No thanks, I don't need your respect, or agreement, or interest.

Riot is keeping a good job of hunting boosters, I have yet to stumble upon a boosted player in diamond+.

No doubt, I'm sure I couldn't easily find things like this: https://%%%%%%%%%%%%%/boosting/purchase

But no, your Diamond experience tells all of what happens in the ladder. No doubt.

EDIT: (props to Riot's board controls for spoofing the base address tho XD) It's for a site that is on FB with over 35k likes and bills itself as "the oldest, most popular and most respected boosting site in the world"

The Cane MasterOct 13, 20161 votes

But no, your Diamond experience tells all of what happens in the ladder. No doubt.

It says that I've been in every league, ranging from bronze to diamond, while you were only in bronze. Who again has the broader aspect of the ladder?

BestTristMyHausOct 13, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hVQajdcx,comment-id=000a0000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-13T21:15:57.756+0000)

It says that I've been in every league, ranging from bronze to diamond, while you were only in bronze. Who again has the broader aspect of the ladder?

Clearly you do almighty Cane Master. All Hail the skill-lords of EU. Clearly you know better than I of the existence of boosting. Clearly neither of us could do a simple google search for "league legends boosting" and not only get results but ADS right at the top for services. No. Clearly your anecdotal experience is proof positive that boosting is non-existent in League of Legends. Why even lean on your rank, your Psychologist experience alone gives you enough insight into the human mind to prove that not only would no one ever risk penalty to a secondary account from Riot for boosting, but also I'm sure no one would EVER pay for such a service because all we want is to play with friends at our accurate rank.

I am sorry for speaking out of turn to my betters. I have reflected upon my mistakes and know now that your opinion is the right one and the many players and experiences and situations that are in opposition to your view are clearly wrong and should be removed not only from League of Legends, but indeed from the world itself.

SlythionOct 14, 20162 votes

the sass in this one is strong xD

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

RalanrOct 13, 20165 votes

Isn't the role selection still staying?

ZielmannOct 13, 20161 votes

Yep.

Also, it's not like dynamic queue disappears, either (though they'll call it Flex Queue I guess). And if a solo or duo prefer the dynamic queue feel from this season, they can join the flex queue.

The Cane MasterOct 13, 20161 votes

ZielmannOct 13, 20163 votes

That's a lot of conclusions to jump to based off total speculation to begin with.

The Cane MasterOct 13, 20161 votes

Better prevent than cure. Should it happen first so that Riot realizes?

ZielmannOct 13, 20164 votes

I do admit I'm a bit surprised by the planned implementation, but I hardly see it as doom-and-gloom. Not perfect, but not killing off the game as you seem to believe.

IMO, solo queue should have been a true solo queue (no duos allowed). Even when solo queue was around, people complained that the duos ruined it. So those clamoring for solo queue would likely prefer a true solo-only queue.

Then for flex queue, allow groups of 2, 3, or 5. Now people won't complain about 4-mans ruining their experience, and you remove the reliance of having solo players in the flex queue to almost voluntarily be filling out a team with a 4-man. Should result in slightly more consistent and still reasonable queue times, too. And while it kinda sucks if you've got a close group of 4 and no 5th, those players could at least split into two groups of 2 and queue up.

EndlessSorcererOct 13, 20165 votes

Some people still haven't managed to realize that Champion Select and Solo/Dynamic Queue are separate after almost a year of using them.

RalanrOct 13, 20163 votes

I know they are separate. I was just pointing it out because role select does decrease arguing over roles.

The Cane MasterOct 13, 20161 votes

The Flex Queue (Dynamic Queue replacement) will get a significant drop in number of players. As solo players make the most of LoL player base, the number of people needed to queue up with the similar MMR and at the same time to get matchmade is really high, thus auto-fill turns on. This fucks up the 3's and 4's premades, playing off roles, and losing on everything they wanted to showcase. The arguing for roles starts again, toxicity rises, solo players (that are mostly lonely, pathetic and egoistic people) are happy. Premades stop playing Flex Queue, maybe even quit LoL,The Flex Queue (Dynamic Queue replacement) will get a significant drop in number of players. As solo players make the most of LoL player base, the number of people needed to queue up with the similar MMR and at the same time to get matchmade is really high, thus auto-fill turns on. This fucks up the 3's and 4's premades, playing off roles, and losing on everything they wanted to showcase. The arguing for roles starts again, toxicity rises, solo players (that are mostly lonely, pathetic and egoistic people) are happy. Premades stop playing Flex Queue, probably even quit LoL. And League of Legends is 5v5 team game, while Solo Queue is 1+1+1+1+1 vs 1+1+1+1+1.

If you'd like to measure individual skill, go play Hearstone, I heard it's a good game.

BakedLotionOct 13, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hVQajdcx,comment-id=000000010002,timestamp=2016-10-13T19:57:24.420+0000)

The Flex Queue (Dynamic Queue replacement) will get a significant drop in number of players. As solo players make the most of LoL player base, the number of people needed to queue up with the similar MMR and at the same time to get matchmade is really high, thus auto-fill turns on. This fucks up the 3's and 4's premades, playing off roles, and losing on everything they wanted to showcase. The arguing for roles starts again, toxicity rises, solo players (that are mostly lonely, pathetic and egoistic people) are happy. Premades stop playing Flex Queue, maybe even quit LoL,The Flex Queue (Dynamic Queue replacement) will get a significant drop in number of players. As solo players make the most of LoL player base, the number of people needed to queue up with the similar MMR and at the same time to get matchmade is really high, thus auto-fill turns on. This fucks up the 3's and 4's premades, playing off roles, and losing on everything they wanted to showcase. The arguing for roles starts again, toxicity rises, solo players (that are mostly lonely, pathetic and egoistic people) are happy. Premades stop playing Flex Queue, probably even quit LoL. And League of Legends is 5v5 team game, while Solo Queue is 1+1+1+1+1 vs 1+1+1+1+1.

If you'd like to measure individual skill, go play Hearstone, I heard it's a good game.

If it gets a significant drop in players, doesn't that prove that the majority doesn't like Flex Queue and they should support what players like? Bias much?

The Cane MasterOct 13, 20161 votes

Democracy is a flawed idea to begin with. It's merely the 4th best way to bring a public decision of a large scale, like LoL has. Look at the state of the our planet, and people on it to begin with, and you'll realize that the saddest thing of today is democracy. Numbers of poor, dead or barely surviving, migrants, never ending wars, weapons of mass destruction. The amount of blood and dead corpses that history spilled proves this point. But I guess you are an American, right?

BakedLotionOct 13, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hVQajdcx,comment-id=00000001000200000000,timestamp=2016-10-13T20:57:38.261+0000)

Democracy is a flawed idea to begin with. It's merely the 4th best way to bring a public decision of a large scale, like LoL has. Look at the state of the our planet, and people on it to begin with, and you'll realize that the saddest thing of today is democracy. Numbers of poor, dead or barely surviving, migrants, never ending wars, weapons of mass destruction. The amount of blood and dead corpses that history spilled proves this point. But I guess you are an American, right?

What does this have to do with a videogame. What do you suggest? Satisfy the 5 people who enjoy Flex Queue and then have 99% of the playerbase quit? You already admitted that almost no one likes Flex Queue. Lmfao. Be real.

That random stab at america tho. But I understand. You need some sort of bullshit to make it seem like you have a reasonable argument. You must be so cool and smart to be European!

JayblazeOct 13, 20163 votes

It does stay, i remember riot saying in that post that they bring back solo q WITH the new champ select. But in addition to pick your 2 pref roles, youll get to choose 1 role you dont want to play. Say you pick mid and jungle except support, youll get either mid, jung, top or adc.

Vistha KaiOct 13, 20161 votes

I'm pretty sure the part about picking the role you don't want to play was said to be exclusive for those who picked Fill as the primary role.

JayblazeOct 13, 20163 votes

I think its for make q times faster, because instead of getting one of your 2 pref roles, the matchmaker has 4 choices to get you in a game

ViiLLAiNOct 13, 20164 votes

The issue isn't dynamic q

Well it sorta is in the fact that most pre made parties are using Skype discord TeamSpeak or any other voice communication software

So if 3 people have that advantage over a team who doesn't there's a serious issue

Dynamic q is just fine the way it is

What we need is some voice chat options so that solo players and pre mades can talk to each other and win a team game by using

You know it

It's coming

VOICE CHAT

Problem solved

TyrekGoldenspearOct 13, 20164 votes

Duuuuude.

I didn't even read your post yet, but you should know to NEVER mention bringing Solo Queue back as a bad thing.

The downvoters will eat you alive.

StephenizgodOct 13, 20164 votes

Ok well before I get into Dynamic Queue i just want to address something you said that is false. Dynamic Queue did not reduce fighting over roles and champions nor did it reduce Toxicity in any way. If anything it created more Toxicity between Solo players and Premades, the Premades blamed the Solo Player and the Solo players blamed the Premade. What you are referring to is the new Champion Select, this is completely different than Dynamic Queue, this would have been implemented regardless of whether Dynamic Queue was or not.

Now on to DQ.

I am all for Dynamic Queue and I am a firm believer that the a lot of the bigger issues with Dynamic Queue were the communities fault. However there are huge issues with DQ that could not be solved by simply changing a few things here or there. One of the biggest issues being the ability for 4 Diamond Smurfs to play with a Bronze player and carry them to whatever rank they wanted. This created a vast gap in skill between players in all elos which created a very negative and chaotic experience for those not abusing the system to boost themselves or others.

Basically the entire ranked ladder became the Silver tier, where new players, those boosted from Bronze by happenstance, those who fell from Gold, those who were genuinely climbing, and the average player who belonged in Silver were all trapped facing each other. Often those who deserved to climb would be stuck because it was basically a 1v9, those who deserved to fall were not falling because there was that one person capable of carrying them just enough to keep them where they were, and there were those who couldn't do either on their own.

Dynamic Queue allowed this chaos to spread to the entire ladder due to how it was used by the community. This is an issue, while not necessarily DQ's fault, it is a large flaw in how the system works. One that is being fixed with the introduction of both Flex Ranked and Solo/Duo Queue, that way those who get carried to a certain Rank will not be able to do so in both queues and it will be apparent. It will however create another big issue (again with the Community being the main cause) and that is discrimination between Flex Rank players and Solo Players.

Obviously Solo Players will act like their rank is better than Flex Players, this is just how this community is. If you can't reach the same rank (or equivalent rank) in Solo as you did in Flex, you will be called boosted and your Solo rank will be used to judge you while completely ignoring your Flex rank. This is going to be a huge issue, one that doesn't even need to occur. There is nothing wrong with being a higher rank in Flex, you could have so much more synergy playing with friends that you rise higher. That is not a bad thing, in Solo Queue you often run into a situation where you can't communicate or cooperate with your teammates, you are just too different. There is a common misconception that Solo Queue is better because you are able to climb with random players by working together, this is false! Solo Queue is entirely how well you can carry by yourself regardless of what your teammates do. There is no need for any cooperation and your rank is determined by how well you can solo carry. Nothing wrong with that either, but people need to understand that both Queues have their own factors that go into deciding Rank. Neither is better than the other, in my opinion, and the proof of this is look at Challenger and Masters and the Pros Scene. A Random Solo player can not go to Worlds and succeed, they may have gotten to Challenger on their own, and that is admirable, but so did most of the Pros. They are there because of their ability to work as a team, not as a Solo Player.

ShahamutOct 14, 20161 votes

the ability for 4 Diamond Smurfs to play with a Bronze player and carry them to whatever rank they wanted.

This existed with Duo Que... This is not new....

agreed with most everything else you said though.

StephenizgodOct 14, 20161 votes

1 Diamond Smurf is not as bad as 4. With 1 Diamond Smurf, it is a lot harder and slower and they don't get as high ranked. With 4 D smurfs, literally nothing the enemy can do unless they are also D Smurfs. It is just easier this season than ever before.

ShahamutOct 14, 20161 votes

Though I acknowledge your point of it being easier, I doubt you would be able to find many examples of that level of boosting going on. Not that even one instance is ok, just that it wouldn't be a big enough problem (by big enough I mean common enough) to be used as a point against Dynamic Queue.

There is a streamer/youtuber who will remain nameless who actually has a series about boosting someone, because he thought it was funny given how bad the player is. Pretty sure he was doing it just by himself, and this season. Doesn't seem to be having any problems solo carrying either.

Boosting is a problem that is difficult to address. But I don't think Dynamic Queue had a major influence on its actual degree of being so. Just my opinion though.

StephenizgodOct 14, 20161 votes

That is true, but boosting is definitely worse this season. I know this is common to think when you are bad and don't want to acknowledge it, but I honestly believe the people in my elo are boosted. This is the first season I have gotten to Gold V, but that is only because of Promo Helper, every season I have gotten to my Silver I Promos multiple times, 2 seasons ago I failed more than 20 times. My point though is that I was able to solo carry myself to Silver I promos very easily and very quickly. It took me 1 week to get from Bronze 4 to Silver 1. This season however has been the most struggle I have ever faced, it took me 3 weeks just to get to Silver I and another couple weeks to get to Gold V. I haven't been able to get out of Gold V, and big part of that is how easily I give up lately, but most of it is because I don't think everyone is in the same skill range. It is painfully obvious that my ADC is worse then everyone else by leaps and bounds, it is painfully obvious the Top laner is outclassed in every way by his opponent.

I have lost so many games where I am playing excellent and yet can't carry my team (a lot of games where i play terrible). I have gotten several Penta's this season that were damn near pure 1v5's and yet still couldn't win because my team didn't take advantage and there is only so much one person can do. I mean I had to kill all 5 of them (with Leonas help), TP to a lane take 3 turrets and an inhib to stop my team from intentionally feeding because they thought it was over.

I have never had these issues before this season, this season is so stompy because the Bronze boosted player is going to lose to most opponents. This goes both ways btw, the other team also has these players but its because of this that I am stalled where I am. Its not fair that win or loss is decided by who has more boosted players because no matter how well I play personally, a 25/2 Riven is going to kill us all.

ShahamutOct 14, 20161 votes

I completely understand how you feel man, but I also think that the changes to the game, and the meta are contributing a lot more to the "stompiness" of games atm.

Early game matters (especially in our lower elos) SO much more than it did in previous seasons. Come backs seem to be WAY harder to achieve than previously. Heck, I carried myself from Bronze 5 to Silver 3 (ended in 4) in one season playing Skarner top. :P

Your team does mean a lot more this season, which has its pros and cons, but yeah man, I feel ya. Still, I don't really feel Dynamic Queue is the biggest causation of that.