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its not just ardent censer. can you fix fucking marksmen already?

Critmaster Garen··151 votes·5,900 views

i dont understand why adc are allowed to just build i.e. and 2 zeal items and then just straight up burst through armor/health stackers in 5 seconds or less without even bothering with armor pen.

they have to literally pay 0 fucking attention to itemization at the moment.

either adc counter itemization isnt effective enough, or marksmen are simply just scaling too strong mid and lategame. take a huge guess what it is.

just hit the fucking marksmen. not just support items.

do we really have to endure this bullshit for the next two month until preseason?

198 Comments

10 fps21 votes

This is not even true. What the fuck?

Giga Kahuna8 votes

as long as the boards exist, marksmen are overpowered, mages should be buffed and supports (minus thresh) are never ever overpowered

Thefrostyviking20 votes

.-.....Good sir-----i wish to ask but what exactly are you building on which champ for a marksman to kill you in 5 seconds with a IE+ zeals?

Because when playing Seju i have no problem tanking marksmen for a very long time unless they got armor pen.

Then i just make sure i have my passive and stoneplate and i am once against free to just stand there in all my glorious boar riding magnificence.

""Edit"" Day 5, OP has yet to dignify my question with a answer, i am beginning to doubt that one even exists.

10 fps14 votes

The OP is just lying.

ProfDrDeath13 votes

Not lying, exaggerating. Which is still not a good way to make a point.

Divewing13 votes

grain of truth in every exaggeration.

ADCs ARE scaling too early.

That said that is all relative to game length, so maybe this is not "ADCs are too early" as much as "early game snowballing is a total fustercluck"

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

9/11 was an inside job.

Show me that grain of truth.

Divewing2 votes

Jet fuel can't melt steel beams :P

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

That's been irrelevant for forever. They heavily warp them, effectively destroying them.

Beast Brawler2 votes

Aye, but warping the upper levels wouldn't make the lower levels explode like they did. Someone put bombs in the buildings for maximum damage.

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Please tell me you're joking. I don't think anyone could actually be that dumb and still be able to play League.

nice table2 votes

i blindly believe what the government told me and everyone that doesn't want to do that is really stupid hehexd

nice table1 votes

of course you can "tank" the adcs for a long time when you have a passive that pretty much prevents all damage and a bunch of cc, zac and aatrox can also "tank" the adcs for a long time with GA and a zilean on their team :^)

Thefrostyviking2 votes

Just as Maokai can tank for a long time while healing and CCíng or how Chogath can just walk around with like 15k health with stoneplate.

Or Zac jumps around with a huge amount of CC and a revival passive and innate tankiness.

Rammus is also quite good with his .....W i think it is?

Seju can't self revive nor can she reach over 10 K health but instead she negates a couple seconds of damage, it's her own special thing.

It doesn't maker her terribly special though as the other tanks already have their own things now, they even add some magic resist thing to mundo.....

Tanks are tanky is my point,commenting on what makes them tanky isn't really meaningful thus i wonder what your point is?

FeederCricket12 votes

Marksmen items cost a lot ( most of them ) and the marksman has to farm/get kills to get said items. Supports on the other hand can just get ancient coin, play braindead, just clicking around to grab coins, and then buy censer and win.

Censer nerfs are good. Now tone down the shield/heal spammers and it'll be fine. ADC's are allowed to deal damage, as long as they don't have supports giving them higher defensive stats than a late game Rammus.

Critmaster Garen50 votes

{quoted}

Marksmen items cost a lot ( most of them )

oh, no problem. just nerf i.e. by 20 ad, reduce the crit damage bonus by 10% and make it 200 gold cheaper.

then do the same to zeal items.

lets give marksmen a taste of what riot did with tank items for the last 3 seasons.

seriously though, crit items are simply way too strong at the moment and marksmen are outscaling other carries. there is no way around nerfing their items.

its NOT just support itemization or youd see other carries power spike as hard as marksmen. but we arent.

FeederCricket2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hUlXTEAO,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-08-28T14:38:03.475+0000)

oh, no problem. just nerf i.e. by 20 ad, reduce the crit damage bonus by 10% and make it 200 gold cheaper.

then do the same to zeal items.

lets give marksmen a taste of what riot did with tank items for the last 3 seasons.

seriously though, crit items are simply way too strong at the moment and marksmen are outscaling other carries. there is no way around nerfing their items.

its NOT just support itemization or youd see other carries power spike as hard as marksmen. but we arent.

If we nerf their items, they become useless again, and we have another tank meta. It's an endless cycle, and every class gets it's chance to shine time to time.

KONO RUBICK DA45 votes

they were NEVER useless they were overshadowed by lethality adcs, marksmen were dominated by jhin varus and mf

before lethality was buffed twitch vayne and cait were the top3 adcs, and crit ruled botlane

Hayaishi27 votes

[{quoted}](name=Im ur Blitzcrank,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hUlXTEAO,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2017-08-28T15:39:03.226+0000)

they were NEVER useless they were overshadowed by lethality adcs, marksmen were dominated by jhin varus and mf

before lethality was buffed twitch vayne and cait were the top3 adcs, and crit ruled botlane

Yes this is the truth.

If we want marksman to be balanced we need to break the cycle.

The crit dependent ADC are always the dominant ones unless something like lethality makes caster adcs superior or whenever Lucian is there to keep them in check. Otherwise it's always the same 4 adcs ( vayne cait twitch trist) outperforming everyone else.

Blackstone015 votes

Breaking the cycle would be if marksmen for once in the history of league since season 2 could reasonably not be in every single game, being replaced by some other role down bot (and I don't mean Ziggs sometimes replacing the ADC for like a month).

specter42429 votes

ADC's were never useless. They are essential for killing towers and objectives regardless of whether an assassin is capable of killing you or not.

Dextix LT27 votes

they become useless again,

When has that been? Adc has been MANDATORY for as long as this game bloody existed....

and every class gets it's chance to shine time to time.

Yea, and adc shine ALL the time.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Disagree. Having an ADC (DPS) bot is not different than having an assassin/mage (Burst) mid lane. The only difference is the huge lack of marksmen champions, differences, and exceptions.

Votable Jester7 votes

And the ability to take towers quickly.

Verxint16 votes

Perhaps the game shouldn't be centered around one-dimensional glass cannon carries?

qMaddie6 votes

Coming from Dota, I'd love to see turn speed be a real thing. Kiting is so unbelievably effective in this game from what I can tell.

Verxint3 votes

They'll never implement turn rates, and I don't think its the solution. The problem, put in its simple form, is that the same set of abilities and mechanics are what you use to counter both Ashe and Lucian, which in turn do basically the same thing to try to avoid dying. This mean the tools that allow you to kill Lucian have to somehow not make Ashe irrelevant.

What happens is the ADC meta bounces between the mobile ADC's that can survive the anti-ADC tools and the immobile ADC's that just kill everything before they die. Since the solution to everything in this game is "peel for your ADC and focus it", there's little reason to actually develop new styles of play.

I've played a decent amount of DotA and the variety of mechanics on carries in that game is really impressive.

Blackstone015 votes

Lots of things need to be taken from DotA, hypercarries being shit early/mid game, wide variety of item effects, turn speed preventing nigh-infinite kite, etc.

ˉˉˉˉˉˉ5 votes

Dicks drawn on map, etc

SpookyNeedle10 votes

"Straight up burst through armor/health stackers in 5 seconds" -5 seconds isn't exactly bursting

Critmaster Garen10 votes

{quoted}

"Straight up burst through armor/health stackers in 5 seconds" -5 seconds isn't exactly bursting

there is absolutely no excuse for marksmen dealing as much damage as they do just by stacking crit items, despite their opponents stacking health and armor.

yes, if youre running 250 armor and 3000 health and the marksman just bursts through that in 5 seconds or less without a last whisper, its fucking dumb as hell.

Imperial Japan5 votes

It could be due to the balancing around lcs but they can't burst through that with no LW lol, maybe with LW and depending on what tank you're playing but that's very situation imo

10 fps7 votes

I play ADC and even with Mortal reminder/Lord dominik's regards, I don't burst through tanks. The only way I'm bursting through tanks is if I'm fed so stop spreading lies. This is not true at all. Not even Vayne kills a tank in 5 seconds.

DeathBurst5 votes

5 seconds is not exactly bursting. 5 seconds is a fucking long time in a LoL game. If you buy 5 seconds for the rest of your team, YOU HAVE DONE YOUR JOB ALREADY, and they should have no problem cleaning the rest of the fight.

Mizaya5 votes

Where's your evidence for that?

Check the VOD for SKT vs KT during playoffs, there was a full build Trist that even sold boots critting a maokai with over 3k health for 232.

Granduss7 votes

When marksmen are being picked in mid over mages: there is a huge problem.

Leetri11 votes

Who is actually picked mid that's such a big problem? Only Lucian and Corki are played mid, and one is a caster ADC and the other is more or less a mage that builds AD, so they're not straight up right-click-to-win ADCs. Lucian is the 16th most popular mid if you look across all ranks (13th in plat+) and he can't even break a 50% win rate. Lux is the 15th most popular support, guess that means that all enchanters are useless and mages are crowding out the support role.

Kraythax7 votes

Build Randuin's Omen and health. If your build is static not adapting to the situation you are doing somethign wrong.

Kayge7 votes

I find it funny how people were so salty about Cait being "op". So they nerfed her. Now ardent is "op". And people are complaining about all marksmen now. Its just sad. I can complain about how Assassins can build 2 lethality items and one shot me (as an adc), but is it going to change anything? No.

50ShadesOfÀDC7 votes

Another cry post...

Kloqdq3 votes

Another post looking at the actual issue in league at the moment.

Sandor at top4 votes

Rammus item 3075 item 3143 item 3110 item 3047
GG

FrozenFrostFyre4 votes

If you played adc you would understand that it's not as strong as you would think. getting one shot by mages or instakilled by assassins or bruisers you can't really complain when a farmed or fed adc dominates the game. tanks have randuin's and thornmail buff if those aren't enough then you're just not a very good player end of story. also tanking for 5 seconds is decent idk what you're complaining about honestly. what you want to tank for 10-15 seconds? thats fucking ridiculous especially with the CC a lot of strong tanks have.

Thilmer3 votes

Riot's logic:

-Marksmen are broken as fuck rigth now. It must be because of support ítems. (Proceed to nerfs support ítems, then support masteries, then support champions, while ADCs still broken as fuck).

Cavesloth3 votes

The problem ISN'T marksmen. The problem is they keep gutting tank items, making adcs better. I mean yes you could just gut the adcs to compensate, but fixing the tank items would help with the snowball problem. But then they want LCS matches to be quick so all of us have to suffer. Riot wants that paper from LOL becoming an e-sport since it'd make them a shitload of money.

Smitty Manjensen2 votes

And as always nobody blames the ones who are at least 50% the cause of all this, supports and their items, but it's easier to ride the adc hate circlejerk and farm upvotes, amirite?

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

supports and their items

What's a support? Can I eat it?

Smitty Manjensen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ariel the Cruel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hUlXTEAO,comment-id=002f0000,timestamp=2017-08-29T15:31:25.699+0000)

What's a support? Can I eat it?

It's that 57% win rate Janna with a 20% pick ration, the 54.02% win rate Soraka with a 11.84% pick rate, the 53.60% win rate Taric with a 5.11% pick rate. So judge by yourself if you can eat them.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

Chogath Sounds edible to me! TahmKench

:^)

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