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If Syndra Had a Slight Mana Buff She Would Be Fine

PapaGreg21··39 votes·3,053 views

I know this is the 100th post on the issue since her q nerfs over a year ago, but if she had just a little bit of a mana buff on her w, people would play her again, it would bring her close to 50% win rate and it would make her kit a lot more fun because you wouldn't have to neglect your spells early game in fear of going oom. Even if her w was nerfed in power or slow, at least you would be able to be more dynamic in your playstyle early without having to wait until you built a mana regen item first. I don't even use w until a mana item is built because I need q and e too badly and can't risk not having them available.

Update: Many people are suggesting a Q damage reversal from the previous nerf. I agree this would be an alternate path to bring her to better viability in the current meta. However, I feel that the mana buff would be viewed as more favorable for both Syndra players as well as Syndra opponents who considered her q damage to be too oppressive back in season 4. I can't remember anybody saying they were ever sick of her spamming her slow moving w on them too often and thought it was unfair.

70 Comments

shteeeb25 votes

Diamond Syndra player since season 3.

No. Her mana is fine. I've never had real mana problems with her.

The only buff she needs is her Q early damage back. 50 base damage is completely pathetic. If the enemy laner is running MR blues, it will do an autoattack of damage (or less.)

I've started taking W at Lv.1 since it does way more damage and actually makes it so you can trade early.

If they give her back her old 70 damage Lv1 Q again, she will be completely fine.

TwinTon37 votes

You friend, are a legend. As someone who's mained Syndra since my first day of League, I completely agree with you on all of this. Either give her her Q damage back, or tweak her Passive to make things a little better. I aim to take my main into ranked and show them just how OP Syndra can be.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Vistha Kai2 votes

Tweaking passive won't do anything here, since she doesn't have one before level 9.

TwinTon32 votes

Actually it would. She only gains the bonus once a skill reaches max rank. By then it's what, close to 15-20 minutes? (Could be lower if you go rouge and bully.) I posted a thread a few weeks back about how it could be tweaked for the better after Meddler said they were going to tweak it during the MYMU. Especially in this speed fest League is in. They could spread the passive evenly among all levels. Like this:

  • Dark Sphere: Deals 5% bonus damage at Lvl 1, 10% at Lvl 3, and 15% at Max. (I'd even take 3%/6%/9%/12%/15%.)
  • Force of Will: Increases the slowing duration by 11% at Lvl 1, 22% at Lvl 3, and 33% at Max. (Even 7%/14%/21%/28%/33% would work.)
  • Scatter the Weak: Spell width increases per level by 10%/20%/30%/40%/50%.
  • Unleashed Power: Range increased by 25/50/75.

That way you don't have to rush a single skill in order to get the boost. And it works with you throughout the entire game. Honestly I think Syndra is probably the only champ in my pool--maybe all of League--that has a passive like this. (I only have like 30 champs out of the 250 available.) I understand it adds more strategy into your skill path, but to me it feels like a small hindrance. God knows I wished for some extra stats during the early game. Especially when you see other passives that work with AA's. If they could tweak the passive into a format like I mentioned, I bet Syndra would get a lot more love.

Vistha Kai1 votes

That's exactly why I used the word "tweaking". What you are proposing is borderline rework.

But that's semantics.

I also dislike the "beating around the brush" balancing technique. I prefer to fix the problem. In Syndra's case is godawful early game damage, in spite of her being considered a lane bully since pretty much always, until she got nerfed out of the blue and out of the meta (assuming she ever was in meta).

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

I'd hate to disagree with the diamond Syndra main, but I have a few things to say about this. (And yeah W is better first rank.)

Syndra is already super instagibby at 6 so it's a little weird to give her level 1 stronk laning power and Thunderlords/ 5% cd would just be too strong imo.

I believe it is her thematic utility that needs buffing and I would actually lower her damage just a tiny bit to give her more of her "force".

Her theme is bending the rules of physical force and I think that:

Her R should be changed (backish) into a untargetable/invulnerability counter (Guaranteed damage) at max rank so her ultimate always goes through.

Her E when maxed should also deflect projectiles like Yasuo's windwall.

Her Q should be able to displace / knockback monsters like Graves' auto so she can jungle too.

Vistha Kai3 votes

I always longed to see Scatter the Weak deflecting projectiles, something I imagined before Yasuo was a thing.

I don't agree with everything else, though.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

I just want Zed / Fizz mains to die vs. her every game ;)

Vistha Kai1 votes

Well, if you pay attention it's very managable, easy even, to shit on Fizz.

Zed is another pair of shoes. Diana is my go-to pick. Not even fucking Maw of Malmoritus will save him.

shteeeb4 votes

70 damage on her Q at rank 1 (which she had for 2+ years) is too strong?

Right now her Q has less base damage than HALF of LeBlanc's rank 1 Q (55 base damage.) If LeBlanc triggers Q, her Q has over TWICE the base damage as Syndra's. And LeBlanc is an even bigger Lv6 insta-gibber who also has a shit-ton of mobility and way lower cooldown on ult. This isn't even mentioning that Syndra's Q is a dodgable skillshot, LB's is not.

And if Riot truly thinks 70 is too much, at the LEAST give it 60 base damage. Sorry, but her bread and butter spell doing less than an autoattack of damage is unacceptable.

Vistha Kai3 votes

I just wish her rank one Dark Sphere could be used for anything other than procing Thunderlord. I mean, should a minion be in the kill-range with basic attack, it ISN'T killable by Dark Sphere.

Mage's basic attack outdamages her bread'n'butter skill aganist... minions. Like, what the actual fuck?

blfUvZ8Ybu2 votes

I hope.

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

She is a lane bully that scales really well, but can be countered with mass Banshees. She can't be buffed without becoming OP...

Vekkna5 votes

Her early base damage is garbage, which gives the illusion of scaling really well. If you compare her to other burst mages, her rank 5 ability damage is nothing special.

Her kill potential is tied to having balls on the map, but it costs ~ 4-5k gold just to afford the mana cost of doing that.

Plus, how do you bully the Zed who outranges you or the Talon who deletes you if you're in range to Q him?

shteeeb15 votes

She hasn't been a lane bully ever since they gutted her early Q damage.

50 damage at rank 1 is pathetic and you will lose any trade.

SHlTBUG1 votes

just curious, what does syndra bring to the table that makes her better than other champs (or worth playing)

IcyPepper1 votes

IIRC, she scales hard with cdr compared to other mages.

Her ult increases in damage by how well you can juggle sending balls out with her Q and extending their lifespan with W. With max cdr, a skilled Syndra can have up to 7(?) balls out which will hit like an absolute truck.

If you want, you could compare her to an inversed Zed. Zeds ult increases his damage (with a "splat" at the end) for a few seconds. It requires planning, and gives him an escape and a kill secure until/at the end of the duration. Syndra is similar, but requires set-up in the beginning (no mobility, but the increased damage is almost guaranteed).

She's been nerfed since, but she has one of the higher level 6 bursts of midlaners. Her lane bullying has been nerfed since, but played right you can catch an opponent off-guard with devastating damage.

shteeeb3 votes

Great constant AoE damage (All 3 of her basic abilities are AoE) while also having great burst.

Pretty good waveclear.

One of my favorite things about her, is while she may be immobile, she doesn't have to stop moving to cast any abilities (except I think casting her ult has a really brief pause.)

And her biggest draw is I'd say a good long range AoE stun on a relatively short cooldown (8.4 seconds at max rank with 30% CDR.) Ult to get a bunch of balls out first and then E and you can possibly stun 3-4 enemies in a teamfight which could turn the whole fight. The range of her stun + her burst makes her great in soloqueue. Land a long range stun and burst a squishy and that could win you a game. The stun + burst also makes her great at giving and receiving ganks. She can help lock down a target AND deal enough damage to kill, this is what really helps her snowball.

PapaGreg212 votes

She used to be a lane bully because her q was really powerful. Now, it isn't.

Vistha Kai4 votes

She was a lane bully because her Q was doing what it was suppose to do.

Damage when hit. That doesn't equal "powerful". It was your average poke spell.

Now you can't even use it as a backup option when last hitting.

Nebuul2 votes

Her passive on Q translates to: this skill is worthless until rank 5

Edit: seriously, at rank 5, the skill becomes comparable to other similar skills. Before that, it sucks. Not worth the mana.

SH Azykan1 votes

before that it is a combo piece, and should be treated as such. either use it for thunderlords or just to enable her W and E or setup for her ult.

1 800 MID LANE6 votes

Kinda pitiful when a mage's basic attacks hit as hard as the rank 1 spells.

Vistha Kai2 votes

Actually her basic attacks hurt more.

I've tried like 20 times to last hit two minions at once when both were killable with basic attacks. I haven't succeeded ONCE.

That was the time rank 1 Dark Sphere became nothing, but an over-glorified way to proc Thunderlord for me.

1 800 MID LANE1 votes

Her attack damage is the same as her Q damage at level 1 using AP quints and CDR blues and disregarding resistances. In terms of base damage, her AD is higher.

I'm pretty sure you were using the minion damage mastery. I forgot the name.

Vistha Kai1 votes

Savagery and no, I don't use it. I have Wanderer on every mastery page that has any points in Cunning.

1 800 MID LANE1 votes

Odd. Maybe we were just using different runes.

Her BASE damage is lower, but using the runes I had, it evened out.

Captain Aishi1 votes

dunno about him but i personally run movespeed quints on syndra so maybe he does the same?

also there's levels 2 and 3 where your Q is still rank 1 but your AD per level has kicked in a bit :P

Vistha Kai1 votes

Unlike some people visiting those Boards, I don't post from underleveled alts and all my statistics are readily available.

AD/level may be the thing, although it still happens durning the first wave.

1 800 MID LANE1 votes

Actually, I can't see your match history. Odd. I guess op.gg is a thing, but it's kind of irrelevant to the conversation anyway. Syndra's Q blows pre-9, and that's assuming you max it first. We all agree.

Vistha Kai1 votes

I believe it's bugged when you try to check history of people on a different server, but refreshing or going back(it seems to redirect for no apparent reason) usually helps.

1 800 MID LANE1 votes

I personally do Q W Q E so at level 3, my Q is rank 2. It's more dependent on the lane, but that's my default if I'm not afraid of an all-in.

Captain Aishi1 votes

I do Q-E-W most of the time because level 2 is around the time when the enemy jungler ganks or tries to towerdive me... meh...

1 800 MID LANE1 votes

I also tend to let the wave push to me a bit so that doesn't happen anyways, but it depends on the game and lane opponent. It's kind of a greedy approach, but it pays off more often than not in Silver.

Captain Aishi1 votes

i'm playing against players up to Diamond4 when I play Syndra, and the wave is always frozen near the river walls on my side of the map for the first 6 levels, I still get ganked 2-3 times during that time on average :S

WadeWilson13372 votes

inb4 Syndra has one of the 3 lowest winrates in mid lane. Oh wait.

PapaGreg212 votes

It's true. Plus, it isn't like this is even something that is new. Her win rate has been 46-47ish for pretty much all of season 5.

legionnaire991 votes

she isn't weak at all she just fells cluncky like her kit dosen't want to work with it's self if you understand that the same thing i think about Akali she dosen't need more damage she need a misslespeedbuff to her Q or a slower ult so she can Q then ult and it will be there when you our

WadeWilson13371 votes

She holds the 45th highest winrate out of 48 spots with a whopping 45%. Shes weak.

Vistha Kai4 votes

Pretty much everybody who played Syndra extensively agrees that the damage is THE problem (and the fact Scatter the Weak still is behaving funny, but that's another story entirely).

If you are on point with aiming, there is no way to dodge Dark Spheres without on-demand mobility like Flash.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Wasn't the last Syndra change literally an increase to her mana per level?

Vistha Kai1 votes

First she was given +13 mana/level, which was later reduced to +10/level at the price of 50 more mana at level 1.

Which honestly means nothing, because late game Syndra had no major problems with mana and early the 50 more mana barely makes up for the horrendous damage nerf she got beforehand.

LVL 5 PORO1 votes

I think she's perfectly fine. A Q buff would be nice but I don't think she absolutely needs it. The thing that made me play her more was her Snowday skin, lol.

Sairentosutoka1 votes

i think the only reason her winrate is low is because there are so man champions that can just phase out dmg with their ults like zed.

Credit Ninja1 votes

Just rush item 3042 and watch them fall. Who knows how much fun I have using that thing with Syndra (granted I only play her in normals).

Meep Man1 votes

Get Marumana, get Seraph's afterwards. Boom, we got the mana, we got the damage.

Levyathyn1 votes

I think Syndra's fine. I was really looking forward to that proposed True Damage buff on her Q, but ah well, you can't have it all.

Shonjl1 votes

I dont see why she needs a buff at all. She is one of the few actually good mages atm. If you waste your mana then of course you will lose but thats the point, it means you made a mistake and its your skill.

Syndra unlike most other mages builds pure damage early on to go nuts, and she has more than enough mana to blow anyone up if she uses it very carefully.

Lux may get cried about by a lot of bad players, but I personally would rather not see someone that can stun me for literally 50% of my hp in one attack be able to spam it a lot more. And that isn't an exaggeration either. Her stun combo once she has like 1 AP item can easily do 25-40%. And that isn't even counting her throwing minions or skittles at you.

Leanus Crain1 votes

Or duo with the jungle and get blue! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

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