What happened to the Yasuo rework that Riot said they would do?

YumaS2Astral·Sep 27, 2017·61 votes·10,786 views

They said they would rework Yasuo so that he will not be banned as much (he is currently sitting at a 28% banrate according to lolalytics, and as you know, everytime that Yasuo is even slighty strong, he is permabanned). His kit is still frustrating to play against even though he isn't considered to be unbalanced. A rework might actually allow him to be buffed, given that with his current kit, he CANNOT be buffed. Yasuo is overloaded and a rework may solve that.

Riot said a long time ago that they would do one, but they only mentioned it once, and never said a word about it again. What happened to it? Is Yasuo still considered for a rework?

98 Comments

Ahri BakaSep 28, 201730 votes

I don't care about Yasuo being OP or not , I just get frustrated how when I play against a Bad Yasuo , but in late game when he buy items , no matter how good or bad he is , HE WON'T DIE FROM AN AHRI FULL COMBO , and still , he need to q twice and restores his lost hp , yeah thats how I've been getting frustrated lately.

RainXBladeSep 28, 20172 votes

Well it's Yasuo, and he scales to late game. You have to ensure Yasuo doesn't gets his PD/IE combo in any way possible or else you're screwed if he even gets remotely close to you.

And you're Ahri. You have 3 dashes to escape his damage and range. If those aren't enough for you, then I don't know what you're doing wrong in that.

Edit: Yasuo main btw.

A girl Supp MainSep 28, 201726 votes

An Ahri main's balance flowchart: Can I one burst it?

Yes — Balanced No — Nerf champion and Irelia; buff Ahri and Gunblade.

RainXBladeSep 28, 20173 votes

It's like every Ahri main likes to white knight for their waifu, whether it be justifying that she's balanced since she has everything for a mage (mobility, range and damage) or that she's getting too many skins, with one of them not even fitting her theme (Hi Star Guardian Ahri).

: ^)

KuromiuSep 28, 20178 votes

Star Guardian Ahri is actually in a different universe than the actual default Ahri. Same goes with every champion that got a Star Guardian skin, and they also have a story, which is cool.

SiG DxDSep 29, 20172 votes

he probably did all his combo on wind wall so he didnt kill him lmao

AnhartaminSep 28, 20172 votes

[deleted]

XenomancersSep 28, 20173 votes

{quoted}

You’re just bad than, you can 100-0 him easily if he’s bad. One charm and he’s done.

impossible to land a charm on a yas dude...why even say stupid things like this. He dumpsters ahri.

Ichi Ni SanSep 28, 20173 votes

Mid-dash, land it as he comes out. Land it as he auto's cannons. Land it every time he blows his windwall. It's not much harder than on other Champs. But you have to think ahead, just like on other champs.

SteelflameSep 28, 20173 votes

Any Yas worth a grain of salt knows to only Windwall either a charm or a full combo from Ahri. Note that literally everything in Ahri's kit can be eaten by WW, so you either have him block half your kit (At which point you lose by default vs him) or he blocks the charm at the very minimum, and you can't kill him.

Ahri struggles to full 1 shot champs who just build even a smidge of defense generally, let alone champs who can full out negate a spell or more from her.

Ichi Ni SanSep 28, 20173 votes

hyperbolize all you want.

windwall has a hefty cooldown. if your charm gets walled, you can wait for it to come back up in 12 seconds. if you have cdr (you should) it will come down to 8ish. yasuo will hardly ever have cdr. 26 SECONDS. thats how long you have to trade while its down.

SteelflameSep 29, 20177 votes

The Ahri vs Yasuo matchup is an exact 50-50 split on winrates, to at least the second decimal place.

This implies that it is infact a skill matchup. Notably, I'd say that a lot of that comes down to the fact that Ahri is a far better roamer than Yasuo, and plies her power in other lanes, rather than stay and try and beat Yasuo in the 1v1s he is stronger in in this situation.

There is one very important thing to note though. Ahri starts falling off like a rock around 30 minutes in, where Yasuo starts soaring in winrate after his large mid-game dip. If Yasuo just survives the Ahri matchup without giving her a lead, he wins the matchup pretty much. This is showcased in how their stats play out. They both have about the same kill count average, yasuo on average dies once more per game than Ahri, BUT Ahri tends to get 2+ more assist than Yasuo, and Yasuo tends to have a fairly large gold lead on Ahri. This pretty much plays to exactly how the matchup goes, where Yasuo fights to survive Ahri in lane while farming up, while Ahri tries to bully him early before roaming after he starts spiking in power and she has to leave the lane or else get bullied herself, because as much as people love to QQ about Ahri, her damage is actually fairly low for a mage/assassin. She is great at multiple trades thanks to innate sustain, and a low CD kit, but she tends to be lackluster at all ins unless she has at least one other person helping her do damage.

Ichi Ni SanSep 29, 20173 votes

pretty solid analysis mate.

with how their relative cooldowns and damage scale up as the game goes on, yas can clear a wave much much fast than ahri, even faster the bigger it is due to low cooldown eq chains he uses in the wave. late game yasuo will shit on anything that isnt locking him down with cc, thats pretty much yasuos only win condition as i see it, but who am i.

lvl 1 trades are a lot better for yasuo if he gets to auto you all the way to your turret and get the xp lead, but it seems to get pretty hard to compete for cs if he gives up the early level pressure without trading, or dies to ganks at all.

the way i see it, ahri that lands spells should be taking every chance she gets to poke yas out of lane, since his pseudo-sustain passive gets wasted pretty hard mid. with that, kill him and put him in the dirt once and for all, then roam bot and do the same to the ad

CowseedSep 28, 20172 votes

Really? My case is the complete opposite. He could get fed massively in lane but later in the game everyone just dodges his tornados and he slowly falls off and becomes crap.

DarwinTheorySep 28, 201716 votes

I cannot stand Yasuo. if Yasuo is on my team ever since I hit Gold 3 + he always wins the game, never loses. He might lose but it is rare. I always try to ban him and only play with him if a team mate picks him. Anyone Gold + knows his mechanics very well which makes him a massive pain in the backend.

I literally don't play vs him anymore though as i said. 100% dodge if I'm against him. Reasons?

His dash makes it impossible to lock him down
Even when you catch him that stupid shield negates any damage before he escapes again.....and refreshes it
He can poke you with steel tempest literally from behind a minion while you stupidly have to path find around the minion because of minion block.......by which time he moves or dashes away
He can dash into you, knock you up, dash away. Free damage at no risk.

There is so little counterplay to him that is the problem. His kit is the epitome of antifun. I get he has a high skill cap but he is too versatile once mastered.

xtyler100xSep 28, 20174 votes

I 100% agree

BoilTheOilSep 28, 20174 votes

You have a champion too btw

Negruii killerSep 29, 20172 votes

I think you just need to learn to play.

LauchmelderSep 28, 201711 votes

Better rework Ryze

SEKAISep 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hEQoWcps,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-09-28T12:58:38.066+0000)

Better rework Ryze

Maybe Riot has finally given up, and Ryze is the new Urgot.

JoseraphSep 28, 201710 votes

Riot needs to change his W, ult, and passive, while leaving his E and Q mostly intact. His fluid dashing and stabbing is what makes him interesting imo. His passive W and ult are what makes him annoying. I'm fine feeling outplayed by Yasuo with a million dashes if I tried to fight him like, level 2 in my massive minion wave and he juked all my skills, but at and past level six he's packed with so many outplay tools it's just not fun. Two shields, windwall, hella dashes on E, and his Ult that blinks him, cc's you, and attempts to put Yas super far away from you if you're under turret. Not to mention his steroids...

RiotRiot AxesSep 29, 201710 votes

Explorations so far haven't been fruitful, so we have nothing pending. We still recognize the value of good Yasuo work, though.

nosafterburnSep 29, 20172 votes

so nothing blows you away yet huh?

LauchmelderSep 29, 20177 votes

Have you tried the public ideas yet? Things like making his Windwall appear in front of him instead of 'out of him' or limiting his dashes in some way?

I mean, internally testing them couldn't hurt, now could it?

SelegunSep 29, 20171 votes

Are you able to share any details of what was tested out and what was learned from the resulting games?

NiyumiSep 30, 20176 votes

So, Yasuo is actually fun to play against level 1-7ish. Then he backs, buys one crit item, and can just entirely ignore his kit and statcheck you to death with his autos that crit 90% of the time with one item and do absurd damage -- then it gets to be infuriating. And when he buys lifesteal and autos you for 500-600+ on top of his Q that has a 2 second CD... he just becomes a statcheck late game with hyper mobility and all kinds of survival tools and CC.

And he really has no counterplay other than him fucking up. He has an answer to every situation.

A samurai is all about precision and control, right? So, instead of autoing at the speed of light with reckless abandon, make him into a real samurai type thing. Give him some real counterplay, and lower his bullshit synergy with lifesteal and crit items.

So, first off, cap Yas's attack speed. I feel like 0.8-1.2ish would be fine. You could increase his base AD or something if you need to, or make extra AS give him bonus MS or something.

Passive: Honestly, his passive is fine for a melee skirmisher thing. But, there needs to be one small change:

His autos cannot crit.
- Double crit still applies to Q

Q: His Q can stay the same stab thing he has, but a few changes to it:

First, lower the base damage.
Second, a passive on his Q: When Yas autos, he creates weak points on the enemy (stacking 3 times).
- Using his Q on an enemy with this debuff will consume the stacks to make it deal X% extra damage per stack (perhaps it could pierce 15% armor per stack as well).

AS would still lower the CD on his Q

Yas does not generate stacks on his Q anymore

W: This can stay the same, but it needs to spawn in FRONT of Yas, not inside of him. Just change the animation slightly and make him slash the ground in front of him or slash upwards and make a wall of wind.

But if you're feeling nice, have it break after blocking an ultimate ability (still blocks the ability).

E: This one needs some changes:

First, make it a skillshot instead of targeted.

So Yas dashes in a straight line (speed and distance scaling with MS maybe), autoing everything he passes through (these autos can crit)
- 100% AA damage for first target struck, 80% for second, 50% for everything else
*If a champion is the first target struck, they gain two stacks of his auto passive thing.
Give it a limited number of charges, maybe 2-3, that recharges based on AS.
Now has a ~3s CD.

R: So, Yas's R is bullshit as it is currently. So let's give it more counterplay (which you supposedly like) and give Yas some clear windows of power where he's scary and feels good about what he's doing:

New passive: When Yas lands a Q on a target with 3 stacks of his auto passive, his ult activates (one cast per 3 stack Q, does not stack).
Yas's ult is now a two-part. First part, he dashes (not a blink) incredibly fast in a direction (after a slight delay, maybe 0.2ish seconds, the whole sheathe grab thing you know?). If he hits a champion, he throws them into the air, and deals a small amount of damage. If a champion is thrown into the air, he leaps up after them, does his thing he does now, and slams them into the ground.
- After casting, every auto (and first hit of E) for the next ~5s will apply three stacks of his auto passive at once.

Has a 10s CD (on both activation and second cast) per target, but otherwise has no cooldown

Now, I'm not a professional game designer, and that could very well be broken, but it preserves Yas's identity as a fast skirmisher (while enhancing the samurai feel) that relies on a lot of button mashing, combos and twitchy fingers, preserves his teamfight power (but now it's on him rather than his team stacking knockups), but adds meaningful windows of power to his kit, allows people other than himself to counterplay him, and in my opinion would make for some very high points in his gameplay that feel good, rather than just the one and done ult we have now.

HalcyonDwellerSep 30, 20171 votes

That was enjoyable to read, well explained, and with more rationale than you normally see people put into rework ideas. Great idea! Have you thought about creating a post with this?

If you do make a post, start off by explaining the samurai and ability caster stuff and pointing out that you want to preserve that for people. That will make sure your post is better received. Then go into the kit like you did.

And again, this is really well written!

NiyumiSep 30, 20171 votes

Ha, everything I write is usually downvoted into oblivion, so I haven't. But, I suppose I can try.

TheDarck91Oct 1, 20171 votes

You literally put what i thought yasuo changes should be that i could never put into words, into words. Take my upvote my good sir.

a 200k ex yasuo main

NiyumiOct 1, 20171 votes

Eh, not like it really matters though. Riot doesn't like making champs actually have fun, interactive kits. Plus, Yas makes money being like he is, so he's not likely to change.

Spicy RiceOct 2, 20173 votes

So, basically you

A. Removed any real incentive to buy crit.

B. Reduced his overall damage at every stage of the game.

C. Removed the main point of being an AA based champ, while still nearly necessitating you build att spd.

D. Changed his mobility in such a way that you need to use it to go in, but then are stuck there with no real damage to back it up.

E. Made his ultimate super janky to use. To put this in context, the fastest way to get off your ultimate would be to walk up point blank to a champion, e through them (without doing e-q), auto attack them, and then hit q. As a squishy damage dealer...

F. Removed any point of picking him on a team other than windwall. In his current state, you can at least pick him to synergize with cc, or for cc by Honestly, this gives yasuo nothing, but takes away nearly everything that people like about him. The only people that would feel good about this rework would be those who want to play against a champion who can't do anything to them.

Or to put it another way, if this rework went through, why would I want to pick this new yasuo over any other melee carry? (aside from windwall and reminiscing about old yas)

NiyumiOct 2, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Spicy Rice,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hEQoWcps,comment-id=001a00050001,timestamp=2017-10-02T00:53:02.552+0000) A. Removed any real incentive to buy crit.

Q still crits, E autos can crit. You still have double crit too. So imagine your current Yas Q doing like 150% increased damage and piercing 45% armor. Now imagine if that crit.

B. Reduced his overall damage at every stage of the game.

That's the point. He has higher windows of burst, but lower overall damage.

C. Removed the main point of being an AA based champ, while still nearly necessitating you build att spd.

I never thought Yas was meant to be focused around his AAs. I thought of him more like Camille -- he's focused on his abilities, and his autos, while important, aren't his identity. He's not Yi, Jax, Irelia or any of them.

D. Changed his mobility in such a way that you need to use it to go in, but then are stuck there with no real damage to back it up.

Wow, it's like most champs who use their mobility to go in have to go in knowing what to do and knowing they have enough damage to win. Why should Yas be any different?

E. Made his ultimate super janky to use. To put this in context, the fastest way to get off your ultimate would be to walk up point blank to a champion, e through them (without doing e-q), auto attack them, and then hit q. As a squishy damage dealer...

Akali Camille Diana Ekko Fizz Kayn LeeSin (if AD) MasterYi Nocturne Riven Talon Zed

These guys are all squishy, and they get right on top of people to do whatever it is they do. Yas has his passive shield, his W, and still has lifesteal and items like PD to fight with. He would by no means be incapable of getting his damage off. He just wouldn't auto win every fight he goes into like he does now if he has 1-2 kills or farm. Plus, he'd have another charge or two of his E to get out if he can't win.

F. Removed any point of picking him on a team other than windwall. In his current state, you can at least pick him to synergize with cc, or for cc by

Why do you pick Yi? Why do you pick Fiora? He brings damage that can still hurt tanks (since he basically ignores 45% armor after he ults and his Q would hit like a truck), he's mobile, he has his W, and he would go well with a dive comp and help pick out single targets.

Honestly, this gives yasuo nothing, but takes away nearly everything that people like about him. The only people that would feel good about this rework would be those who want to play against a champion who can't do anything to them.

It gives him counterplay (which he lacks), recenters his focus on abilities rather than autos (so Yas players can feel good about winning), gives him a more satisfying playstyle, and gives him higher damage to tanks and higher burst to squishies. Only things taken away are his limitless mobility (he'd still be absurdly mobile with this) and his ridiculous statcheck power mid game and later.

Raven and TerraOct 1, 20171 votes

Have you simply thought about making a stat counter-scaling? Like making on-hit abilities have 50% effectiveness (make the slow a weaker slow on frozen heart for him, thereby making it a weaker item on him) or maybe he only gains 75% of the stats from defensive items (the armor and magic resist options). Forcing him to buy lifesteal if he wants more survivability creates counter-play in itself (GW being so easily purchased) will help do a lot, possibly.

Hazard Pay 35Dec 18, 20171 votes

If i can toss my amateur hat into the ring (3 months later, sorry for the necro) What about changing his passive to give 10% bonus crit for every crit item he has and giving his q 35% bonus crit damage (really 25% with his passive) to off set yasuo needing 3 of his 5 slots for 100% crit but also allowing build versatility with his 2 item 70% crit chance?

His E could recharge his shield passive twice of the normal distance traveled if used on champions but also take twice as long before you can E them again, and 25% on minions but halve the E reset?

His W could be the same but maybe stays the same size through out the levels in exchange for an extra second of uptime per wall? Or 2 charges for more self defense (and way less up-time) so its less of a "oh no, a flying ult!" use w and it blocks everything sort of ability since yasuo is literally just dead on one stun?

His R doesnt seem to need a change honestly.

Hope you see this and thanks for giving the time to read it if you do!

Meep ManSep 28, 20175 votes

They only just got finished with Azir and Xin Zhao, who were always coming before him. Aatrox is also due for an update as well. I wouldn't be surprised if Yasuo was a little way off.

IoLanaSep 28, 20176 votes

He was supposed to get some change earlier even before the azir and xin zhao mini rework. But the changes never made it to pbe or were dropped, meddler stated in the usual quick gameplay thought that they had upcoming changes for yasuo in shifting the power of his passive shield elsewhere on his kite, and adjusting his windwall. That never made it through but the rest of the changes exception of udry did.

PokladnicaZlaSep 28, 20173 votes

Give RITO 2-3 seasons to first announce his rework and then 1-2 more seasons to finally add it.

PaffWasTakenSep 28, 20173 votes

Well, you could say...put sunglasses on... that those were promises in the wind

ModKnightsKemplarSep 28, 20172 votes

That was only a couple of months ago. The timetable on turning around these game elements is very long.

Riot has been saying they wanted to rework runes and masteries for years; I don't have an exact date, but I would bet you could find a Rioter comment about that as early as Season 5?

Everyone seems to forget that Rioters play this game, too. They experience all the same problems that we experience. The issue is whether or not that work is the most important work they could be doing.

Any time Riot comments on why they haven't addressed some issue, this is the response. They are working on things that are higher priority. They have a limited workforce, and it would cause other problems to expand that too quickly.

TL;DR they haven't forgotten. Just be patient while they work through their priorities list.

DarwinTheorySep 28, 20172 votes

A nerf to his shield or a 0.5 s reduction between dashes is all that's required. Start small see what happens. Neither change would take more than a morning for a programmer to re-code it's just number values withing existing coding.

Small change. Big impact to champion toxicity.

VerxintSep 28, 20172 votes

I think a good portion of Yasuo's ban rate is banning him away from your own team

DrugothSep 28, 20172 votes

Yasuo isn't really high on the priority list compared to other, much older champions, like Udyr.

ExcessiveProtestSep 28, 20172 votes

Nothing concrete yet in terms of a timeframe, but my gut's telling me never.

As I see it, he's been out for years, complained about for the same, but Rito have never tried to change his kit because they think it's fine once you get used to it. They only agreed to do so recently (in a rather passive-agressive way, it must be said) because players forced their hand with the ban spike. Even if they genuinely intended to rework him when they said it, most likely what will happen is they'll talk about it for a bit, the ban rate will go down due to a bad mass-rework or a meta shift, and they'll decide he's not enough of a problem to put resources on and push it back indefinitely.

jamaal charlesSep 28, 20172 votes

The only yasuo rework ive been hearing about is the April fools joke one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgDuqyNXoh4

ShiznyteSep 29, 20171 votes

A good Yasuo player is a very frustrating thing to deal with... He has A lot good Early game pressure, once he gets a few items under his Belt he becomes a huge power house, and farming is easy when you can force most people out of lane. getting 100% crit from 1 item and a component makes him do quite a bit of damage early on, his Focus shield is extremely effective especially if he build Def stats. The current item 3046 item 1018 item 3022 item 3047 (and two more defensive items of your choosing) is a very strong build on Yasuo Lot's of damage from crits and plenty of survivability from items and hit Kit. Sure he has the same weakness as every other hero in the game if you want to say it is summoner 3 or hard CC but good yasuo's will run summoner 1 maybe pick up a QSS and windwall stops a surprising amount of Hard CC. He has plenty of out play potential, yes he is a sort of hard champion to play, but maybe not as hard as people think. Having no mana and Short CD's makes for a pretty simple play style once you learn his skill ranges. This champion is a very touchy subject for a lot of people because if people think you are saying anything negative they take it as a personal attack. If he's too strong hes always banned because people know hes too strong I think where he is right now is fine because he is very playable champion if you put your time in, and he isn't banned 70% of the time like he is when he is overtuned.

RooneRSep 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

A good Yasuo player is a very frustrating thing to deal with... He has A lot good Early game pressure, once he gets a few items under his Belt he becomes a huge power house, and farming is easy when you can force most people out of lane. getting 100% crit from 1 item and a component makes him do quite a bit of damage early on, his Focus shield is extremely effective especially if he build Def stats. The current (and two more defensive items of your choosing) is a very strong build on Yasuo Lot's of damage from crits and plenty of survivability from items and hit Kit. Sure he has the same weakness as every other hero in the game if you want to say it is or hard CC but good yasuo's will run maybe pick up a QSS and windwall stops a surprising amount of Hard CC. He has plenty of out play potential, yes he is a sort of hard champion to play, but maybe not as hard as people think. Having no mana and Short CD's makes for a pretty simple play style once you learn his skill ranges. This champion is a very touchy subject for a lot of people because if people think you are saying anything negative they take it as a personal attack. If he's too strong hes always banned because people know hes too strong I think where he is right now is fine because he is very playable champion if you put your time in, and he isn't banned 70% of the time like he is when he is overtuned.

he is still overtuned. If he build def its almost impossible to put him down.

ShiznyteSep 30, 20171 votes

i agree its tough to kill him with def stats... i dont agree with him being able to be a bruiser, he should be all AD so he is atleast squishy IMO

RooneRSep 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

i agree its tough to kill him with def stats... i dont agree with him being able to be a bruiser, he should be all AD so he is atleast squishy IMO

I play against this Yas and GOD... he have item 3022 item 3812 item 3071 item 3047 item 3031 item 3153 He goes under turret on our Tank and supp... He gets over 300hp back on basic WTH?!?! and he have over 3500HP, 497 DMG... WTF is this ?!?! + 100% Crit Srly THERE is a big problem with this...

ShiznyteSep 30, 20172 votes

lots of sustain he only has about 40% crit with that build but so much life steal and Botrk is a tank killing item. deaths dance passive to keep him alive. its a good build vs a low damage team.

RooneRSep 30, 20171 votes

{quoted}

lots of sustain he only has about 40% crit with that build but so much life steal and Botrk is a tank killing item. deaths dance passive to keep him alive. its a good build vs a low damage team.

Yup...