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Which is more powerful? The Vayne who hits a 2346 basic attack? Or Tank Ahri:

Azadethe··1 votes·739 views

I just had a game where very late game, Vayne erased me with a 2346 Auto attack (That wasn't including Tumble or Silver Bolt, which did about 400 each)

After that I got a little more careful, and this is what happened. Zoe's got nothing on Ahri!

(Btw: These are Platinum players in a 4 man premade)

[img]https://i.imgur.com/tGGMCG3.png[/img]

I want you to look at a few different numbers.

Naturally, Ahri is #1 damage.

But... I want you to look at Self mitigated damage and Self healing.

This game's build is item 3303 > item 3098 > item 1033 > item 1057 > item 1001 > item 3010 >item 3067 >item 3001 > item 1033 > item 3111 > item 3065 > item 3165 > item 3151 > Xitem 3098 > item 3089

It says several noteable things:

  1. In lane Zoe was abusing me. She was Plat Zoe, knows how to play, and was even almost deleting me when I had already started magic resist items. Her very first kill was literally a situation where she used Flash to long shot a Q when I ducked behind minions after sleeping. She 1 shot Rek Sai in Wraiths shortly after. Even after Negatron Cloak, she was taking like 70% of my hp.

But..... I know Zoe. I know how to beat her. I played passive, took my lumps until about level 7 because I knew at least her and Shyvana Jungle were Plat smurfing. Every time i went low, I'd back off, and I let Zoe take my mid first turret.

And.... that was it. Ganked bot, got 1 kill 1 assist, Came back mid. proceeded to begin to 50% Zoe with every Q, started punishing her R's, using my R to avoid Q paddles or Shyv ganks. and just healing out of whatever damage I took.

By about the Morellonomicon, I could safely start a team fight with 50 HP and end the same team fight at full health. After that.... I pretty much spent the game taunting out their entire team's ults, because none of them can catch a Cleanse Ahri with Flash. If they chased, I just Q'd to chew them up, heal me, and this repeated the entire game. Zoe became irrelevant, because she was deletion status if I can just heal out of anything she does.

In other words, even a champ who absolutely gets punished by Zoe can beat Zoe.

  1. Nonmetas are sometimes more viable than meta builds. If you have to trade 300 AP off your build in exchange for healing out of every obstacle and creating a virtual 1v5..... do it. It's not troll if your kit is enhanced by it.

  2. Vayne's Q is insanely OP. It is not her E or W. It is Q. This particular Vayne was shut down yet still ended the game with the second most damage on her team as a single target adc. She averaged 7.1 CS/minute even though she was shut down. She hit as 2346 Crit on me and procc'd Silver Bolt on top of it, because of her insane AD multiplying on Tumble. That would have 1 hit anyone who wasn't a tank, much less tanks, and it's on a 2 second cooldown.

  3. Ahri is in a good place. I don't know why Ahri players are begging for buffs when the innate ability to do something like this is already there. You basically pull 51% win rates as a meta build with Ahri. This kind of build for me pulls around 64% or better (depending on if I'm spamming Ahri or only using her on choice games)

15 Comments

Eedat5 votes

Vayne erased me with a 2346 Auto attack (That wasn't including Tumble or Silver Bolt, which did about 400 each)

Straight up lying and a terrible lie at that.

"Silver bolts did 400 from a single auto attack" kek

Plus the pic you provided clearly says Vayne's biggest crit was 1016

0/10 shitpost

Azadethe1 votes

You need to actually learn how end game stats read vs dead readouts. Crits on the Final stats don't include noncrit portions of the hit.

Eedat4 votes

You need to learn the basics mechanics of the champions you make stories about. You said silver bolts did 400 damage from a single auto attack. You don't see the problem here? Vayne's silver bolts only proc on the third consecutive hit of a target. There is absolutely NO way to take damage from silver bolts after being attacked a single time from Vayne. None. Zip. Zero. Nada. Not even with rageblade. 100% completely impossible.

Hence you proved with 100% certainty that you're lying. At least take the time to understand the absolute basics of how a champ works before making up a BS story about them next time.

Azadethe1 votes

I know how Vayne's Silver Bolt works. She may have got a couple light hits in. I don't know. We're talking Plat + teams and fast orbing. But it didn't result in me falling low, because I was hyper healing and it was right near her Nexus. I have an idea that she hit twice before Zoe Sleep set in, but that doesn't stop the 2346 hit.

Late Game Vayne has around 2.32 attacks per second, so tapping twice before you can react to a Silver bolt isn't uncommon.

Keep trying.

Eonslegacy1 votes

E enemy1 stack, q at enemy right click enemy, guinsoos fires 2nd imaginary auto, 3 procs 1 auto. Ty ladies and gents, taht would do Q damage (around 400 to 500 from q) crit on the auto 1000 damage, then the silver bolts proc for 400, so 800 plus 1k is 1.9k or so, without factoring in anything else that may have happened such as the guinsoos scaling on the double hit, or the silver being higher or the q being higher, or static shiv or anything like press the attack or so modifying.

Crystalysk1 votes

Her largest critical strike was 1016 though.

Azadethe1 votes

Yeah I don't know. It was probably a non crit or inclusive damage from a Shiv proc, which doesn't show up in end game stats. The Death Readout said 2346, "Basic Attack" but it followed a Zoe's Bubble.

In a fight shortly after, She did it again without Zoe, for a basic attack of 1700ish, so I'm guessing she did the same metric, but in the 2346 she got the capped True damage added in.

That's the way Tumble works: It empowers her next Basic attack with 1.7 times AD damage. She had 257 AD on her build with 100% crit, and an ult that adds 70 AD..... so effectively 327 AD Vayne also killed an infernal drake, so 353.16 AD Her Crit on Tumble would have been 794 + 360 From Shiv = 1,154 pre mitigation damage. She would have done an addition 555 from Tumble that is noncrit damage, or 1709 damage. That puts her in the ballpark, but my Magic resist should have reduced the Shiv substantially. She also had a item 3094 which probably explains how it only did 1700. If it was a target who had no magic resist, her Q probably would have done more like 1900-2000.

Crystalysk1 votes

Don't get me wrong, ADCs are too strong, i hate them.

But your build focus only on MR (which is understandable since 4 of your enemies deal loads of magic damage) which means Vayne was probably doing close to true damage to you even without silver bolts. Second to that but not less important, Vayne has been a bad pick for ages, it's just the current meta helps her shine because of relic+fleet footwork insane sustain that nullifies her bad lane phase and ADC items being ridiculously cheap.

Stealth is the only problem i have with her (but she is not the only champion that has it in its kit)

Azadethe1 votes

I don't personally care about Vayne. I care about people whining about her, and they do have a legitimate point: 1700 damage reliable from one attack is huge on an auto attack, and it's more accessible than 1700 on any other adc. Jinx might do 2 800s in 1 second on Get Excited. Cait can only do that on 4th shots and Trap shots which actually take setups. Vayne can do that just by pressing Q. I generally play champs which hard counter Vayne, like Zyra Sona Leona Morgana Because the range of her tumble is limited, meaning non target aoe root/stuns destroy her.

I'm just pointing out..... I can see where people are coming from. The laughable thing is, they think it's the Silver Bolts, which at 3600 hp does a whopping 400 damage.

It's almost all in her Q.

Gibberwatt1 votes

I would guess that the 1016 is just the base damage, without the silver bolts/tumble bonus. idk tho

Azadethe1 votes

Read my response to Crystalisk.

Death damage readouts itemize by damage types. A 1700 Basic attack is all physical. The Magic damage registers separate, and Silver Bolts itemize separate.

BUT..... only 1016 itemizes as a CRIT. Tumble has non crit physical damage added. (The 70% added damage doesn't crit). The game will register them all as one damage source, but the end game readout separates the Q added damage from the actual crit damage.

So you're half right. It doesn't include the Silver Bolts, which puts the single attack damage over 2100 vs the HP I had.

Report for Wuju1 votes

post clip.

Azadethe1 votes

I would if I recorded it :S. Not a Streamer.

Can you pull up a death detail when watching an old game as a spectator?

Azadethe1 votes

Btw, I looked at the internal save, and Vayne did indeed do 3 hits for about 546 before the last 2346 hit. As I killed Shyvana and Tristana killed Zoe, Zoe threw a wild E at me, landed, and Vayne got in 3 micro hits before the 2346 hit. The 3rd hit applied Silver Bolts, but the 4th overkilled me by about 1300 hp (I had 3100 HP). It all happened in about 1 second due to skill resets.

Second time also had 3 ~ 600 hits with a 1700 hit after on her Tumble.

P.S. I find it ironic that anyone reading this post is just magnetized to the Vayne comment, and not the Tank Ahri part of it. Again, I don't care about Vayne personally. Most champs I play are selected to shut her down (She makes me mad on Nami Sometimes because of the bubble land delay, but generally my other champs stop her hard). I care more about the fact she just was able to carry hard even though in lane she lost hard, and that OTHER people complain about her.

Why aren't people complaining about Ahri being overpowered? The illusion that she's weak? can't counterplay?

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