Why is Tryn's kit still a thing?

Seenan·Aug 23, 2015·88 votes·5,276 views

Free 35% crit gotten relatively easy as soon as he gets one crit item, 5 seconds of it/free hits on the opposing enemy every time his ult is off cd (with the potential to tower dive easily) without dying nor fail since he also has built in sustain and dueling/chasing+a dash (spin?). He's been prominent in my games lately and it's always been disgusting to play against.

It's like Fizz with his potential to never die cause of his damn troll pole (but at least that's at a reasonable cd stifles laughter).

I remember when his heal was actually ridiculous and healed like 1/5 of his hp. Buuut his sustain isn't really the issue, his ult is. Especially since he can cast it when silenced/suppressed/???...Doesn't reward skillful play in that manner. I thought we were trying to nerf 'R to win' champs. (Looking at you, Kat). And all he does is splitpush to be more of a nuisance...With his kit, he's too capable of it too.

124 Comments

AtheosisXAug 23, 201542 votes

Tryndamere is far from overpowered, but I do agree that his kit is cancer of the worst kind. That ult is just obnoxious.

MarthianAug 23, 201517 votes

Not to mention free Crit early game makes trades almost always in his favor.

A Miss FortuneAug 24, 201515 votes

Tryndamere isn't overpowered but after Poppy's rework, he'll most likely be the most broken champion in League of Legends.

His entire gameplay revolves around him either getting ahead and one-shotting your ADC at level 10, or getting behind and split pushing until the game ends. He's so easy to play and extremely unfun to play against. Even while he's split pushing his dueling powers are insane and he can easily duel anyone with his ultimate up under MOST circumstances.

You can't say he's a "feast or famine" champion either, not only are a lot of champions labeled that are also broken, but he still can be extremely annoying and a huge threat to the enemy team if he is behind.

SeenanAug 24, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Miss Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hEBUvEMd,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2015-08-24T00:29:17.995+0000)

Tryndamere isn't overpowered but after Poppy's rework, he'll most likely be the most broken champion in League of Legends.

His entire gameplay revolves around him either getting ahead and one-shotting your ADC at level 10, or getting behind and split pushing until the game ends. He's so easy to play and extremely unfun to play against. Even while he's split pushing his dueling powers are insane and he can easily duel anyone with his ultimate up under MOST circumstances.

You can't say he's a "feast or famine" champion either, not only are a lot of champions labeled that are also broken, but he still can be extremely annoying and a huge threat to the enemy team if he is behind.

Out of curiousity, what does Poppy's rework have to do with Tryn?

65wQhMlGlTAug 24, 20159 votes

I believe he's implying that Poppy is currently more broken than Tryndamere as their ults function in a similar manner, but she has hard cc and free tank stats and damage reduction.

BuzzinTateAug 24, 20151 votes

He's so easy to play and extremely unfun to play against.

MasterYi Teemo Swain Rengar Vayne have the same sort of effect to me

gaby1bestAug 24, 20156 votes

Oh, it's that guy again.

KeevalroyAug 24, 20156 votes

his kit is cancer of the worst kind.

Yasuo

Downvoted by Yasuo players ignorant of his toxic kit. Hilarious.

65wQhMlGlTAug 24, 20155 votes

Return to this post when you actually played against a Tryndamere.

KeevalroyAug 24, 201510 votes

Trynd is unpleasant to deal with because he's annoying with his unfair crit passive and undying ult on a negative cooldown. Yasuo is obnoxious, overloaded, toxic bullshit that should have never been released. Riot should know better than this by now, but since he's CertainlyT's idea, he MUST go through development because the horrible decisions CertainlyT makes bring Riot lots of income.

I'm not defending Tryndamere, just the early Riot where they didn't consider game health. That isn't to say Trynd doesn't need a rework, which he clearly does. What I'm suggesting is that Yasuo is even worse if not for the overloaded broken mess of a kit, then Riot's decision to release him since game health is apparently top priority.

"We want to avoid creating frustration." - CertainlyT

Darius Zyra Thresh Yasuo Kalista

Oh do you? Go on, share who you think is a problem child then Mr. T.

65wQhMlGlTAug 24, 20155 votes

I understand that's it's irritating playing against a Yasuo, however, I find a Tryndamere to be much more of a nuisance. If he's behind, he'll just splitpush and he's a pretty large threat with his ultimate for whomever decides to go stop him. If he's ahead, he'll just 2 shot everybody. He's extremely dangerous to duel not only because he can't be killed for 5 seconds, but because he gains bonus AD the lower his health is, and he can also reduce your AD if he manages to get that ability off on you.

I find that Yasuo's kit is much more bearable to play against, although I'm quite biased towards him as he's one of my favorite champions lore-wise and gameplay-wise. His wall, however, is pretty annoying to deal with and should be changed. Perhaps a nerf to his wind wall and a buff to his passive shield would make him less toxic.

Summonerrr 1Aug 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Trynd is unpleasant to deal with because he's annoying with his unfair crit passive and undying ult on a negative cooldown. Yasuo is obnoxious, overloaded, toxic bullshit that should have never been released. Riot should know better than this by now, but since he's CertainlyT's idea, he MUST go through development because the horrible decisions CertainlyT makes bring Riot lots of income.

I'm not defending Tryndamere, just the early Riot where they didn't consider game health. That isn't to say Trynd doesn't need a rework, which he clearly does. What I'm suggesting is that Yasuo is even worse if not for the overloaded broken mess of a kit, then Riot's decision to release him since game health is apparently top priority.

"We want to avoid creating frustration." - CertainlyT

Oh do you? Go on, share who you think is a problem child then Mr. T.

^This guy gets it.

Heckin SupportAug 23, 201512 votes

When you try to duel him early levels and he crits you for 1/4 of your health you don't feel outplayed, you feel cheated. And even if you dominate him in lane he'll do nothing but split push and take towers and if you try to stop him he can just ulti and take it anyway. Because he can ultimate through cc for some reason.

HawkefireAug 25, 20151 votes

And honestly, when you do dominate him it is because he never ends up getting a single crit against you during the laning phase.

And this is what I dislike about trynda, he is so heavily based off luck (and his reliance of it) that it (in my honest opinion) overshadows his players skill (do note that I am not saying that trynda players have less skill or lack skill, I am merely saying that they cannot play to their fullest ability unless the RNG gods decide to bless them with luck).

Hullabaloo907Aug 23, 201511 votes

Im actually really surprised trynd hasnt been selected for a rework. Whenever i see a trynd pick i pretty much expect the game to be dumb, either because someone feeds him and he is running around 2 hitting squishes, or he has to split push and is pretty useless against a decent team.

AtheosisXAug 23, 20153 votes

Unfortunately Riot doesn't seem to have any logical process they follow when it comes to deciding who needs reworks first. They just seem to draw names out of hat or something. Meaning that many champions with unhealthy kits, like Tryndamere, remain untouched for really long stretches.

Hullabaloo907Aug 23, 20153 votes

A lot of how they prioritize reworks depends on how much work is involved. Reworking a champ like urgot, poppy, yorick, sion, and taric is a lot like releasing a new champ. It might even be harder since these champs already have a following you dont want to disappoint. If you can prioritize a small rework and gradually work on the larger ones, it makes a lot of sense.

GorgannanAug 24, 20152 votes

From the ACTUAL reasons that they HAVE given, I'd assume Trynd will come relatively late. The problem is his ultimate and passive are the problem, while his Q and passive make him have an insane amount of items that he scales off o crazily. They could give him the best ult in the game but he'd still be garbage without his current one. They would have to do a complete kit overhaul, so he's probably going to get reworked after other reworks get reworks.

JedenVojakAug 24, 20152 votes

He doesn't need a rework though, he's quite functional as he is now.

GorgannanAug 24, 20156 votes

Have you ignored 5 years of rework justification? They've NEVER reworked anyone because they were bad or their kit didn't work. It's exclusively toxic kits and linear gameplay.

Summonerrr 1Aug 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Have you ignored 5 years of rework justification? They've NEVER reworked anyone because they were bad or their kit didn't work. It's exclusively toxic kits and linear gameplay.

That's exactly what tryn's kit is.

Linear and toxic

facepalm

GorgannanAug 24, 20152 votes

Reading comprehension op. I never said he wasn't, or that he doesn't need a rework. I just replying to "He doesn't need a rework though, he's quite functional as he is now."

That guy doesn't understand reworks.

JedenVojakAug 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

That guy doesn't understand reworks.

Excuse me, sir, I understand reworks quite well.

A "rework" is what happens when they feel a champion is not flashy enough, so they make the champion not fun anymore by replacing all of their previously simple and effective abilities into overly telegraphed unreliable crap, then buff their numbers until they're overpowered so people will start playing them; then nerf the hell out of them because they're stomping games since their numbers are stupidly overblown and in the end leave them in a state that is weaker than the champion was pre-rework.

But hey, at least they're "healthier" while giving them more "meaningful choices" and you can "separate the good players from the great players" of them, eh?

GorgannanAug 24, 20152 votes

"A "rework" is what happens when they feel a champion is not flashy enough,"

"overly telegraphed unreliable crap"

I smell some conflicting points.

JedenVojakAug 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

"A "rework" is what happens when they feel a champion is not flashy enough,"

"overly telegraphed unreliable crap"

I smell some conflicting points.

They take champions that have simple reliable abilities that work, and turn them into champs with 6 passives, big swingy abilities with large windups, giant circles on the ground, weird things to throw out and keep track of, etc.

What exactly is the conflict here?

GorgannanAug 25, 20152 votes

I don't think you know what people mean when they say flashy.

It's the opposite of telegraphed.

JedenVojakAug 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I don't think you know what people mean when they say flashy.

It's the opposite of telegraphed.

No it's not. Flashy means very showy and extravagant.

flash·y ˈflaSHē/ adjective adjective: flashy; comparative adjective: flashier; superlative adjective: flashiest

ostentatiously attractive or impressive.
"he always had a flashy car"
synonyms:	ostentatious, flamboyant, showy, conspicuous, extravagant, expensive; More

GorgannanAug 25, 20152 votes

Uh, yeah, like Insec Lee plays. That's showy. An emblem on the ground isn't flashy just because it stands out. Darius new Q isn't flashy just because there's a circle.

You're confusing "flashy" for visually appealing asthetics. We're talking visually asthetic plays.

GorgannanAug 25, 20152 votes

No, you're using the DICTIONARY definition, which is not what it means in league. Colorful abilities don't mean flashy in League.

I don't know how you can hold that opinion when E'ing a ward and kicking an ADC into the enemy team as Lee is considered the flashiest play :P

Or sweet shadow management from Zed.

JedenVojakAug 25, 20153 votes

{quoted}

No, you're using the DICTIONARY definition, which is not what it means in league. Colorful abilities don't mean flashy in League.

I don't know how you can hold that opinion when E'ing a ward and kicking an ADC into the enemy team as Lee is considered the flashiest play :P

Or sweet shadow management from Zed.

The meaning of the word still means what I mean it to mean, even if some people mean something else with it's meaning. Savvy?

GorgannanAug 25, 20151 votes

<-----------What everyone means

What you mean -------------------------->

if you're going to use a meaning that only applies to you, don't try to use it in an argument and get upset I don't validate your definition.

DreamspitterAug 24, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Unfortunately Riot doesn't seem to have any logical process they follow when it comes to deciding who needs reworks first. They just seem to draw names out of hat or something. Meaning that many champions with unhealthy kits, like Tryndamere, remain untouched for really long stretches.

Do you think Nasus is apart of that crowd? I've seen an upvoted thread recently.

AtheosisXAug 24, 20152 votes

Yes. His design is way too farm-oriented and low interaction. I wouldn't put him at the top of the list as I don't think he's super unhealthy compared to a champs like Tryndamere or Poppy, but he's definitely far from a truly healthy champ.

HawkefireAug 25, 20151 votes

Pretty sure he is on the list, although where he is on the list, is a fairly good question.

MatezoideAug 23, 201510 votes

I blame this guy:

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140716213652/leagueoflegends/images/c/c1/Marc_Merrill.jpg

HighH1Aug 24, 20151 votes

Who is he?

MatezoideAug 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Who is he?

Marc ''Tryndamere'' Merrill, the current President and CMO of Riot Games.

Yes, that is literally his nickname. Trynd was named after him, hence the joke.

HighH1Aug 24, 20151 votes

[deleted]

MatezoideAug 24, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Does he also have the ability to not die cocks shotgun

Well he didnt die** yet**, so i assume so.

53436278DEL1Aug 23, 20155 votes

i wonder the same exact thing its so damn toxic stay top and die to me 1 vs 1 while i push your entire top lane and i will get away all i need to build for surviviablilty is a ga

JedenVojakAug 23, 20155 votes

Because he's fun, a good balanced risk-reward champion with key strengths and weaknesses.

He's a glass cannon melee champion with no ranged attacks and no hard CC. I'm sure you can figure out a way to beat him.

Remember, in the early game he's actually quite weak, fight him right at the start of the lane when he has no rage bar (he has not the attack speed items yet to build his rage quickly in a fight), and poke him if you can.

LearndingAug 24, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Free 35% crit gotten relatively easy as soon as he gets one crit item, 5 seconds of it/free hits on the opposing enemy every time his ult is off cd (with the potential to tower dive easily) without dying nor fail since he also has built in sustain and dueling/chasing+a dash (spin?). He's been prominent in my games lately and it's always been disgusting to play against.

It's like Fizz with his potential to never die cause of his damn troll pole (but at least that's at a reasonable cd stifles laughter).

I remember when his heal was actually ridiculous and healed like 1/5 of his hp. Buuut his sustain isn't really the issue, his ult is. Especially since he can cast it when silenced/suppressed/???...Doesn't reward skillful play in that manner. I thought we were trying to nerf 'R to win' champs. (Looking at you, Kat). And all he does is splitpush to be more of a nuisance...With his kit, he's too capable of it too.

Tryndamere uses R > Stunned > Dead

Mister MackeyAug 23, 20154 votes

TahmKench oh you have undying rage? Here let me have a bite to eat while I wait

iTamsAug 24, 20153 votes

You guys are complaining about him when someone like Yasuo is around. This is hilarious.

You want to talk about a toxic kit? Look at Thresh.

KingopantsAug 24, 20151 votes

Thresh is fine, Yeah he is a good pick, He has a nice lantern and hook. But his kit isn't bull to play against, You can easily dodge hooks and he can't spam them, its not toxic at all.

Yasuo is definitely annoying as hell though.

KeevalroyAug 24, 20153 votes

Thresh is fine

Huh?

But his kit isn't bull to play against

Huh??

its not toxic at all.

Yeah the only thing I'm agreeing to here is that Yasuo is just agonizing to play against.

DeusVultAug 24, 20156 votes

Thresh kit =/= toxic, its overloaded

tryns kit is toxic because he can only do one thing; auto you with enough crits till you die; but he can only do that to one person, and even with his ult, he gets blown up in teamfights.

which causes tryn players to do nothing but splitpush since 99% of the champ pool cannot 1v1 him and he can just ult and run away if they send another person to top lane.

He is very much like old Rengar in that his split push is cancer because you can't do anything about it

TheDeviceAug 24, 20153 votes

There really should be an update for a few of these attack speed fighters with problematic kits like they did with the Juggernauts.

Include Tryndamere, Aatrox, and Olaf for reworks near the scale of Fiora but not so much as Sion.

DreamspitterAug 24, 20152 votes

{quoted}

There really should be an update for a few of these attack speed fighters with problematic kits like they did with the Juggernauts.

Include Tryndamere, Aatrox, and Olaf for reworks near the scale of Fiora but not so much as Sion.

I am something of an Aatrox main.

The problem with Aatrox is that his revive passive takes so much of his power budget, that he has greatly reduced armor and hp compared to other fighters.

A "Light Fighter" they called him.

#Yasuo is a light fighter.

Squishy melee carry, with periodic shield, wall (also gives him something to do for his team when not fed), and buttloads of crit). Fiora was stated as being reworked into a "light fighter".

Thing is Aatrox can't burst, and cant mitigate damage except by sustain (tis why melee carries in Dota have Black King Bar). He's squish and because he's not good at much else besides being an initiator with what some have dubbed "a mini malphite" ult in Q he get's built VERY differently from Yas.** He builds 1 or 2 damage items** and bulks up with health, armor, and magic resist.

As for things he can do for his team, Aatrox's lore mentioned him being an inspiring leader and many thought he would have some ability like this, but many were disappointed he didnt. Something like that could be attached to Ult perhaps, giving him a buff aura around him for his team while using it.

Juggernauts (also known rarely as Off-Tanks) are the toughest (or tankiest) of fighters, but also the least mobile. These heavy-duty champions boast powerful defenses in addition to tremendous natural resilience (or tankiness), and while entering a fight is particularly difficult for a juggernaut, actual combat heavily favors them once they are in range. Juggernauts tend to favor heavily defensive builds, though what few offensive items they purchase significantly enhance their already potent innate damage.

Bruisers (also known as Divers) are the most well-rounded of fighters: while not as tough as juggernauts or as loaded with damage as light fighters, divers blend the best of both worlds, mixing in natural toughness and damage with powerful bursts of mobility. While still short-ranged overall, divers excel at entering fights and initiating combat, though once in they have only their natural defenses to protect them against incoming damage. Divers tend to build equal parts damage and defense, allowing them to remain a constant threat without sacrificing too much survivability.

Light Fighters (also known as Melee Carries) are the most offensively oriented fighters: favoring damage-heavy ability sets and builds, light fighters possess situational defenses that allow them to dodge, mitigate or block incoming attacks as they unleash a tremendous stream of damage against their opponents. However, they are also innately fragile, and failure to activate their defenses at the right time usually results in their death. Light fighters tend to be highly mobile, and while they are still vulnerable to kiting, it is nonetheless difficult to keep them completely out of a fight, short of killing them

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Champion/Champion_Classes

Here's how I would change him.

Passive: Remove Revive Q: give it charges that regenerate over time, up to 3 or 4 at max rank (if needed, only the 1st will knock up on hit); alternatively give it a LOW cd and let it periodically gain a charge of knock up that will allow it to knock up on hit. W: Mostly the same , maybe allow Blood Thirst to grant shield that would stack with Bloodthirster. IDK, if new BT didnt exist, that effect would be perfect. E: Same R: Add team supportive aura for teamfights

This would give him more room to build damage, as well as crit.