But if you're in series where you have to win a COMPLETELY arbitrary number of games, all this does is needlessly inhibit your progress with absolutely no reward to offset it.
Here's a radical idea, scrap series entirely and promote people based off of MMR.
Eedat24 votesThen they would have to demote people based off MMR as well. No more free loses at 0 LP. No more safety nets at 5 divisions. I'm 100% OK with this as long as it goes both ways
Troy24262116 votesThen they would have to demote people based off MMR as well. No more free loses at 0 LP. No more safety nets at 5 divisions. I'm 100% OK with this as long as it goes both ways
Good. That's perfectly fair.
Hexs Fortune4 votesGood. That's perfectly fair.
There would be endless QQ over dropping in and out of divisions due to one bad game/afk/troll without safety nets
Eedat5 votesI know this. I've been saying for a long time that your rank should equal your MMR period. But nobody wants to give up their safety nets. They only want it to work one way. They want it to help them climb yet make it impossible to fall
WoonStruck7 votesOnly reason people worry about safety nets is because they're afraid they don't belong where they're at.
If someone really deserves, gold, plat, diamond, etc, they'll climb back up even if they get demoted. This is especially true because there would be no arbitrary gating mechanism anymore.
So yeah...no sympathy from me towards the people wanting safety nets.
######This coming from someone who was taken out of gold from both exploit rollbacks Riot did globally and a lack of safety nets in seasons 1-3.
Troy2426212 votesOnly reason people worry about safety nets is because they're afraid they don't belong where they're at.
If someone really deserves, gold, plat, diamond, etc, they'll climb back up even if they get demoted. This is especially true because there would be no arbitrary gating mechanism anymore.
So yeah...no sympathy from me towards the people wanting safety nets.
If they really wanted to implement a safety net, they could. For example, if we assume Gold MMR is 1,500, demote when someone hits 1,450 or something.
Not saying they should, just saying that even an MMR-based system could have one.
WoonStruck2 votesSafety net often means a buffer you have to get past to rank up too. To hold a healthy system in place, things usually have to work both ways.
I'd be willing to bet plat+ would have to deal with something like that. Because Riot.
Troy2426211 votesSafety net often means a buffer you have to get past to rank up too. To hold a healthy system in place, things usually have to work both ways.
I'd be willing to bet plat+ would have to deal with something like that. Because Riot.
Right but they could do the exact same thing; require that you exceed the rank's MMR by X in order to be promoted/demoted.
Spoofghoul1 votesso we get 23908479283475 challenjour players
oh wait we already do everyone is challenjour in their minds it's just the teams fault
Gregor Gysi2 votesOr alternatively we just show the actual MMR and remove divisions. When you drop out of the MMR range for a certain league it shows - immediately. I suggest we call that MMR "ELO".
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesThen they would have to demote people based off MMR as well. No more free loses at 0 LP. No more safety nets at 5 divisions. I'm 100% OK with this as long as it goes both ways
yeah but how about we don't fall down to 75 lp when we win and we also get the amount of lp we got from series won losses when we promote eh? it shouldn't deduct lp in a series if it doesn't give anything
I do agree that people shouldn't sit at the 5th division of every rank and just rot there
Eedat2 votesThere wouldn't be LP if rank was purely based off MMR
MunchCrunchLunch1 votesThere wouldn't be LP if rank was purely based off MMR
thats how it should be. everyone wants MMR based rank. but the system has to change. currently if you tilt and lose for a cpl days. your mmr tanks and it would take 10 times as long as it took to fall down to climb back up which can be really ugly.
Junkο4 votesThat statement isn't even correct. I get matched versus D3-D1s but I still win 20 per game and lose 15 per loss which is completely normal LP gain as if I was matched against D5s.
Very Hard Engage5 voteshttps://na.whatismymmr.com/CrestKnight
yet here i am in silver 1 at 1300MMR
http://i.imgur.com/0ZIrj1c.png
http://i.imgur.com/uoO23n5.png
its literally the dumbest system in the world.
last season i had a 60% win rate after starting 2-8 silver 4 placements. i stomped all the way up until i was finally matched against gold 1 ~ plat 3 players and my rating was gold 3. everyone was insulting me calling me the lowest rated player, trash, and should not be listened to. that tilted me off the planet into not playing ranked.
i dont want to play 500+ games to know i belong in low plat.
Trash MammaI1 votesI don't see the issue in either of these? If someone is playing with golds+ and they're unranked then they're doing well and getting placed vs people in the same division they're gonna land in. There's nothing wrong with this at all
Very Hard Engage1 votesthe issue is im currently seated in silver 1. struggling to leave promos because of a plague of afks 4-1 surrenders and lost on matchmaking.
my worst performance im 1-1 in kda in an unwinnable all lanes losing situation, and most of the time im punting noobs left and right carrying games.
sure the LP gains are high, 25+, but it doesn't mean anything when you cant 1v9 because you're not a hidden diamond player.
the only reason i have a losing record right now at 49% w/l is because i resolved myself not to dodge games at all, and im playing against the same people i was last season (they're all high gold low plat from last season players, but they're also currently seated in gold 5)
and games where i am favored on matchmaking, someone else dodges. i resolved myself not to dodge games this season and let riot be my guide so i could play more league.
( for comparison purposes, last season i was top 17% op gg, now im top 25% on the ladder )
Troy2426212 votesthe issue is im currently seated in silver 1. struggling to leave promos because of a plague of afks 4-1 surrenders and lost on matchmaking.
my worst performance im 1-1 in kda in an unwinnable all lanes losing situation, and most of the time im punting noobs left and right carrying games.
sure the LP gains are high, 25+, but it doesn't mean anything when you cant 1v9 because you're not a hidden diamond player.
the only reason i have a losing record right now at 49% w/l is because i resolved myself not to dodge games at all, and im playing against the same people i was last season (they're all high gold low plat from last season players, but they're also currently seated in gold 5)
and games where i am favored on matchmaking, someone else dodges. i resolved myself not to dodge games this season and let riot be my guide so i could play more league.
( for comparison purposes, last season i was top 17% op gg, now im top 25% on the ladder )
My winrate has fallen down to 64%, but I'm still pretty annoyed that the quantity of wins takes a back seat to the order in which I won my games >_>.
In my Silver I promo series as well. I know I'll carry into Gold, it's just annoying when I have a limited number of games per day and bullsh*t like this happens.
Very Hard Engage4 voteselo should be more sensitive. theres no harm in that, everyone more quickly gets to where they belong.
if riot wants to make it as rigid as it currently is then make it a true ladder and remove promos and points.
TheSingularity2 votesPlayed 2 sets of silver 1 to gold 5 promos on Sunday. First set everything was fine, won the first 2 games convincingly. Then we had a blitz who spammed pings perfectly in tune with the cooldown timer so he never had to stop (he consufed the absolute fuck out of our bronze top who kept taking his MIA pings seriously and running away despite there being no danger). The next loss our supp's wireless mouse died and he was afk for the first 13 minutes finding batteries. Third loss, I played horridly as support and practically lost the game for our team, but then I found out it was 2 silvers and 3 golds vs 4 plats and a gold 1 (either current or previously). Turns out I was vsing a plat duo bot lane (I'm not even close to being plat worthy, gold 5 on the cliff of demotion at best) #balancedMatchmaking
Second set, YIPEE! FREE WIN! The first loss, a rengar support who roamed, didn't ward, fed and left his corki to 4v1 bot. Games 2 and 3, more cases of silvers and low golds vs plats and high golds. There was no chance of victory. There was a victory in there somewhere when my win rate balanced out but I can't remember where.
. After that i kept on a losing streak due to tilt, until a tahm kench main pulled me into the light and dissolved all of my salt until it was all gone. @ that kench, I <3 u bae
Testing if I'm worthy for gold by forcing me to vs plats and/or carry against plats as a utility jungle main is an almost impossible task.
Very Hard Engage1 votesriot is just forcing us to play more games to achieve what we want, not that they themselves haven't proven thats where we should be (hence the MMR)
dEAdbUs4 votesBack to season 2? No way, you don't know what you're asking for.
SirLapse3 votesSeries are by far WAY BETTER than the previously existing system that was going to match you purely off of MMR. For those of you who have actually experienced the true elo hell, it was that MMR based system with decreasing returns on if you were "too high MMR for your games."
You could gain a whole 1 LP from winning if you were extremely high. YOU THOUGHT 13 WAS LOW? HAHAHAHAHAHA!
It'd match you based on current elo (Bronze/Silver/Gold/etc) and then your MMR would screw you if you were actually good, because eventually you wouldn't be fighting people with similar MMR. I'd rather take this system where you do not have decreasing returns from winning and instead climb faster outside of a few exceptional cases (note that getting bad promos once makes you prone to think further ones will be bad, making you tilt easier).
There's also the problem Riot had where it wasn't 100% sure whether you'd promote from one tier to another. The divisions solved that. If you lose right before you go into promos, the MMR will tend to reset and you won't get players that much higher above you. So the system's flaws really only come out when players that have "unsure MMR" (MMR that is decided on less than 20-25 games). How is a 36% winrate Shaco one-trick Silver III and in my Silver V promos? His MMR should have been way lower before he ever got the chance to be above Silver V...but that's how it works with current placement games. He only had 11 games played.
Troy2426211 votesSeries are by far WAY BETTER than the previously existing system that was going to match you purely off of MMR. For those of you who have actually experienced the true elo hell, it was that MMR based system with decreasing returns on if you were "too high MMR for your games."
You could gain a whole 1 LP from winning if you were extremely high. YOU THOUGHT 13 WAS LOW? HAHAHAHAHAHA!
It'd match you based on current elo (Bronze/Silver/Gold/etc) and then your MMR would screw you if you were actually good, because eventually you wouldn't be fighting people with similar MMR. I'd rather take this system where you do not have decreasing returns from winning and instead climb faster outside of a few exceptional cases (note that getting bad promos once makes you prone to think further ones will be bad, making you tilt easier).
There's also the problem Riot had where it wasn't 100% sure whether you'd promote from one tier to another. The divisions solved that. If you lose right before you go into promos, the MMR will tend to reset and you won't get players that much higher above you. So the system's flaws really only come out when players that have "unsure MMR" (MMR that is decided on less than 20-25 games). How is a 36% winrate Shaco one-trick Silver III and in my Silver V promos? His MMR should have been way lower before he ever got the chance to be above Silver V...but that's how it works with current placement games. He only had 11 games played.
I didn't say revert back to League's old system completely. I'm aware of the clamping Hell it brought about.
Hyperiön2 votesTbh, the entire ranking system needs to be changed. That takes a lot of work, but Riot probably won't do that.
This is the system Rocket League uses. You could win 3 games and advance, or you might have to win 8 games to advance.
It all depends on the win/loss and the individual performance.
A Bad Nasus2 votesToo bad it only works up to gold... made it to promos to plat 1 for the fifth time and finally succeeded. Its ridiculous how the system tends to team you with negative winrate braindead players during series...
Troy2426212 votes[{quoted}](name=Fringed Puccoon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7lKwgzs,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-02-27T22:40:25.494+0000)
Too bad it only works up to gold... made it to promos to plat 1 for the fifth time and finally succeeded. Its ridiculous how the system tends to team you with negative winrate braindead players during series...
I've sat and watched players who consistently make diamond every season fail their Plat series multiple times. It's anecdotal, but it's also incredibly infuriating.
I wouldn't even have the patience to deal with that at higher ELO. I'm glad I'm a Gold scrublord.
SzGamer2272 votesThis.
This is what I failed to express to the boards community with 4 paragraphs.
Just goes to show that short and salty wins out over long and objective. -_-
Troy2426212 votesThis.
This is what I failed to express to the boards community with 4 paragraphs.
Just goes to show that short and salty wins out over long and objective. -_-
I certainly can formulate an articulate argument defending my opinion, but the simple fact is, most people won't read a post longer than a few sentences.
Increased LP gains in an MMR system is ideal; you play in a (roughly) even match where each side approximately has a 50% chance of winning, and if the players involved are of a higher skill level than your rank indicates, you receive extra LP per win and lose less LP per loss to adjust your rank more quickly.
In comes promo series to f*ck up that rapid rank adjustment by still pitting you against opponents you have a 50% chance of beating but awarding you nothing extra in exchange for beating them. Consequently, it's perfectly possible to fail a series and have your promotion delayed even though you belong in a higher division/rank.
TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR: This won't trap anyone in a rank they don't belong. It just tilts the f*ck out of me that it stalls my climb. Hence, my salty post.
SzGamer2272 votesPreaching to the choir my man. I feel ya.
I've got 1 downvote to show for something where salt earned 40 upvotes. I think I've learned my lesson. XD
YokoNomi1 votesWasn't that part of the original intent when ranked game into play? I recall something about Elo being rampant in the worst of ways before the periodic changes over the past several seasons.
Troy2426211 votesWasn't that part of the original intent when ranked game into play? I recall something about Elo being rampant in the worst of ways before the periodic changes over the past several seasons.
They could just establish a threshold above that of the rank if they wanted to. For example, let's assume Gold is at 1,500 MMR. Promote people at 1,550 MMR, or 1,575.
Very Hard Engage1 votespeople hated that they could feed their way in a single night going 3-18 and make their way down from plat 5 to silver 4 elo.
it wasn't bad, it actually rewarded you for playing well.
the real issue was there weren't milestones like in overwatch, riot doesn't check highest achieved, but rather where you finish on the ladder.
which is why gold and silver had decay (back in the day, season 4 i think they removed it for ranks lower than plat)
when in reality the system was hated because 1 night of drunken stupor and you were unknowingly at the bottom of bronze, and its actually a chore to carry your way back to your original rank if you aren't a god among men.
Myrati1 votesMMR is broken as is. They would have to legitimately place you with people of equal MMR against people of equal MMR. They dont do this. You win games you will be placed with people of lower MMR against higher MMR. If they switch to your suggestion the entire system will be even more stacked against you than it is now.
LordBrasca1 votesHonestly there is no point in the current ranking system if not for the rewards.
People almost get matched randomly... based on that invisible number called "MMR", then why not make a system completely based on a visible MMR? I got placed in silver 1 from plat 3 with 5/5 during my placements a month ago and guess what? I was playing against already ranked people that were plat+. Please someone tell me, where is the sense to get place in silver 1 to play against plat+ people?
If i am silver 1 i want to play against people of my same rank... not 2 divisions higher!! Why if my MMR is of a plat player i have to be placed in silver 1 after placements? Where is the sense of this division system outside of rewards?
Honestly i almost got back where i was but it's an incredible pain to go through all those promos even if i am skipping divisions...
idontgiveabother1 votesSometimes I'm not sure if MMR is accurate enough either. A few days ago I was in gold 3 with gold1/plat5 mmr and I was playing with people that were diamond last season (currently in plat) and had a plat 1 and plat 2 on my teams. I wanna improve my game steadily, not get put up against chuck norris and me being the first grader. I sometimes wish it was based off your division, you could be playing with people 1 above or below. Not 7 or 8 jeez man. Honestly thats probably not the right solution either.
notice me Sin pi1 votesi can probably climb better with that proposed system since i'd get less tilted
Photos of Ghosts1 votesBetter yet, make it an absolute ranking system.
TeCoolMage1 votesor give a set non-player based MMR on promos.
I think MMR fluctuates too quickly, rank should represent some sort of upward progress that remains relatively constant unless you climb rather than going up or down constantly. It's sort of a badge sort of thing for people who want status.
However, I also think MMR should be viewable, it's the tool for people who want to know whether they're currently doing good or not.
Two systems with two different audiences, I think both should be used.
Restraintful1 votesThe ranked system is broken because of MMR.
Here's my proposal: click me!
Raiyza1 votesIf only rank was set based on the same design as Mastery levels. For example:
If I main ADC, my rank could be decided based on my KDA, CS, and damage to the enemy team. But this would have be very consistant.
In my matches, I main VelKoz this season. I normally do well. I have many KDAs such as 10/1/12 or 8/2/14 and I would score an S or S- at the end of the game. If only this would tell Riot the kind of player I am instead of how many games I won or lost. They fail to realize that a win does not come from just making good decisons yourself. It comes from teamwork.
If I make good decisions, I should be placed with people who also make good decisions. Instead of standing in a prison cell with people who make terrible decisions.
EDIT: This would also be good because the higher the rank, the tougher it is to be consistent.
There might be flaws with this, not sure.
Cocho1 votesYou stop getting the free win at gold 1
I'm Plat 3 in flex and I cannot win these promos lol. Been at then like 4 times. I guess I need to keep playing until my MMR is normal to climb lol. Here's what I had last game.
Myself 
Plat 3
Challenger
Plat 1
D1
D5
vs
D3
D5
D1
P1
D3
Ranked Solo screenshot https://ibb.co/ebxYka
Having higher MMR than I probably should have is hard lol.
One thing that I really don't like is that when I'm guaranteed one of my 2 main roles because im in promos, that basically means one of my teammates is guaranteed to get autofilled. I feel like I have to choose between going to support myself or having to stomp my lane and bot lane against higher MMR opponents.
ExcusemeFellows1 votesYour picture doesn't work when I click on it.
Cocho1 votesIts behaving odd for me too lol. I tried re-uploading it but it didn't fix the issue lol Heres a new link lol https://ibb.co/ebxYka
The whole enemy team is P2 and I'm P5 :( lol
Derfel1 votesThat would require Riot to admit whoever they hired to implement change for changes sake to ranked that they were wrong.
Good luck with that one.
Troy2426211 votesI'd like to hear a Rioter's thoughts on the system, I don't think they consider the status quo a problem.
Troy2426211 votesStill annoying. Still a needlessly long grind.
Emerald Fang1 votesI don't even notice a difference. I'm on a pretty decent winning streak and still gain 20LP per win, lose 19LP per loss.
Troy2426211 votesI don't even notice a difference. I'm on a pretty decent winning streak and still gain 20LP per win, lose 19LP per loss.
I get aboug 28 LP per win in one queue and 24 in the other, and I notice it. I get into promo series in 5 to 6 games, sure, but then I have to win best 2 out of 3 against enemies equal to my skill leve, ergo roughly 50% chance to win, with no reward to offset it.
If you're only slightly below where you belong, it takes even longer to climb. This can delay climbs multiple games, several hours, for no justifiable reason, and some people can't play League all damn day.
