Why does qss remove Morde ult

The thigh guy·Jun 25, 2019·46 votes·27,994 views

But was specifically changed to not remove zed and fizz ult?

The reasoning behind it was “It didn’t feel right that a 1300 gold item could make a champions ultimate ability almost useless” Isn’t that EXACTLY what this does to Morde? And malzahar? And warwic?

Edit : seeing as everyone seems to think that this post is about mordes current power level, let me clarify. I don’t care how strong or weak he is. This post is about inconsistency in riots balance philosophy.

Qss was originally changed because it neagated 2 champions ultimates entirely. Yet now it is negating 5+ champions ultimates and that’s okay?

140 Comments

AeroWaffleJun 25, 201919 votes

It was specifically changed to only remove crowd-control debuffs. Which Morde's ult is classified as.

The thigh guyJun 25, 20198 votes

{quoted}

It was specifically changed to only remove crowd-control debuffs. Which Morde's ult is classified as.

I’m aware. But their reasoning was because it mad specifically zed and fizz ult worthless. So why is it okay for it to do so to only these specific champions.

AeroWaffleJun 25, 201911 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T02:57:42.348+0000)

I’m aware. But their reasoning was because it mad specifically zed and fizz ult worthless. So why is it okay for it to do so to only these specific champions.

Because loss of control over your character is what the QSS was designed to fight, not the damage. It didn't make sense that, although QSS is suppose to be there to be the counter to CC, it was also cleansing the damage portion of these abilities as well. It was acting as pure damage prevention in these situations before the change. Even in Malzahar's situation the damage is still happening after it's been cleansed now.

hhaavviikkJun 25, 201911 votes

{quoted}

Because loss of control over your character is what the QSS was designed to fight, not the damage. It didn't make sense that, although QSS is suppose to be there to be the counter to CC, it was also cleansing the damage portion of these abilities as well. It was acting as pure damage prevention in these situations before the change. Even in Malzahar's situation the damage is still happening after it's been cleansed now.

except you don't lose control of your character in any way when mordekaiser uses his ult on you, for all intents of purpose with riots war on ''clarity'' there is absolutely 0 clarity to a 0 CC ability like morde his ult to be removed by QSS

JuiceBoxPJun 25, 20196 votes

{quoted}

except you don't lose control of your character in any way when mordekaiser uses his ult on you, for all intents of purpose with riots war on ''clarity'' there is absolutely 0 clarity to a 0 CC ability like morde his ult to be removed by QSS

Except that you do lose control of your character because you have limited area where you can move your character.

His ult literally does nothing other than bind you to a certain zone where you can't leave.

HahahahyenaJun 25, 20194 votes

its essentially creating terrain, not cc'ing, with that logic qss should make all terrain disappear or not affect the champ?

JuiceBoxPJun 25, 20193 votes

{quoted}

its essentially creating terrain, not cc'ing, with that logic qss should make all terrain disappear or not affect the champ?

It is not only creating terrain, it is actively denying you from crossing it.

Dashes, blinks and tps, kayn's e, talon e, should be able to leave his ult if it was only "terrain"

hhaavviikkJun 25, 201912 votes

{quoted}

Except that you do lose control of your character because you have limited area where you can move your character.

His ult literally does nothing other than bind you to a certain zone where you can't leave.

that's not loss of control, you still control your character, the area in where you can move is simply limited, like camille ult, jarvan ult, yorick's wall

it's most like camille's ult yet QSS doesn't remove that

Trist mid opopJun 25, 20193 votes

{quoted}

that's not loss of control, you still control your character, the area in where you can move is simply limited, like camille ult, jarvan ult, yorick's wall

it's most like camille's ult yet QSS doesn't remove that

U can cancel camille R by knocking her out of the zone. Ur team can also help u while ur stuck. The only way to cancel morde is to kill him while u only has 90% of ur stats and he has his stats + 10% of yours or wait out the time, (except for qss). Doesnt his R last up to 6seconds? Camille last 4 sec at most, even less iirc.

hhaavviikkJun 25, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trist mid opop,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-25T10:12:19.588+0000)

U can cancel camille R by knocking her out of the zone. Ur team can also help u while ur stuck. The only way to cancel morde is to kill him while u only has 90% of ur stats and he has his stats + 10% of yours or wait out the time, (except for qss). Doesnt his R last up to 6seconds? Camille last 4 sec at most, even less iirc.

yet in a 1 vs 1 camille ult might as well be the same as mordekaiser his ult unless you're 1 of the very few champions that has a knockback.

My point is that since mordekaiser his ult is not CC in any way it just feels weird that QSS removes his ult, if people ingame told me ''buy QSS to counter morde ult'' I'd be like ''are you stupid?'' because so far ever since QSS got changed for years it's only worked on actual CC abilities and so for mordekaiser his ability to be an outlier just looks out of place, not to mention it begs the question should QSS be allowed to cleanse other non CC ultimates/abilities?

Daddy ReTaricJun 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

that's not loss of control, you still control your character, the area in where you can move is simply limited, like camille ult, jarvan ult, yorick's wall

it's most like camille's ult yet QSS doesn't remove that

Because other allies can walk in it and knock back cancel it. If it was doing the same for Morde ult Qss could be removed because actual counterplay exist. Sadly there is no real counterplay.

Sire HippingtonJun 25, 20193 votes

You can CC WW or malzahar to cancle their ults aswell, so by that logic, why are they affected by QSS?

Light BurnerJun 25, 20192 votes

Id actually be surprised if he responds to this. He tends to ignore logical claims like this or just completely pass them with rhetorical or anecdotal comments.

The thigh guyJun 25, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Because loss of control over your character is what the QSS was designed to fight, not the damage. It didn't make sense that, although QSS is suppose to be there to be the counter to CC, it was also cleansing the damage portion of these abilities as well. It was acting as pure damage prevention in these situations before the change. Even in Malzahar's situation the damage is still happening after it's been cleansed now.

I’d consider near guaranteed death to be a loss of control. :/

AeroWaffleJun 25, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=0000000000000002,timestamp=2019-06-25T20:25:21.569+0000)

I’d consider near guaranteed death to be a loss of control. :/

If you want to argue that an ability is too powerful or too weak, feel free to argue that. But that has little to do with how QSS operates and the purpose that it's fulfilling.

The thigh guyJun 25, 20197 votes

{quoted}

If you want to argue that an ability is too powerful or too weak, feel free to argue that. But that has little to do with how QSS operates and the purpose that it's fulfilling.

No. The argument I’m placing is that qss was changed originally because it made zed and fizz ult feel useless.

Why is it okay then for it to make Morde, warwic and malzahar’s ult useless but not theirs.

Daddy ReTaricJun 25, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T02:57:42.348+0000)

I’m aware. But their reasoning was because it mad specifically zed and fizz ult worthless. So why is it okay for it to do so to only these specific champions.

Zed fizz etc dont warp you in a 1v1 zone where you will most likely lose because Morde steal yours stat on top of it..Zed ult there is counterplay . Fizz as well etc. Morde ult ? You end alone without support and you lose your stat . It needed a counter item and Im glad Qss can because otherwise you would lose 100% of the time. Fuck Morde overall.

The thigh guyJun 25, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quinn Is Bae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-25T15:36:12.262+0000)

Zed fizz etc dont warp you in a 1v1 zone where you will most likely lose because Morde steal yours stat on top of it..Zed ult there is counterplay . Fizz as well etc. Morde ult ? You end alone without support and you lose your stat . It needed a counter item and Im glad Qss can because otherwise you would lose 100% of the time. Fuck Morde overall.

There is counterplay to Morde’s Ult. You out duel him.

It’s not like he is litteraly holding you in one spot and you can’t do anything. Your entire kit is still available to you. And the area is large enough for kiting him to be viable.

Daddy ReTaricJun 25, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-25T15:39:49.541+0000)

There is counterplay to Morde’s Ult. You out duel him.

It’s not like he is litteraly holding you in one spot and you can’t do anything. Your entire kit is still available to you. And the area is large enough for kiting him to be viable.

But he steal a huge portion of your stat and let me remind you every Morde build Rylai..good luck kiting.

The thigh guyJun 25, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Quinn Is Bae,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=00000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T15:45:47.991+0000)

But he steal a huge portion of your stat and let me remind you every Morde build Rylai..good luck kiting.

So does trundle. Infact. Trundle steals a larger potion of your stats and he’s garbage tier. Sooooo?

fifek900Jun 25, 20192 votes

but you can escape Trundle unlike Morde

The thigh guyJun 25, 20193 votes

{quoted}

but you can escape Trundle unlike Morde

With his infinite duration slow, and ms steroid? Maybe if you flash.

imotekhJul 29, 20191 votes

or if a teammate has a cc ability of any kind, the point is that you have to fight morde alone trundle cant force a 1v1 unless you are split pushing without vision and against morde flash doesnt do anything cause you are still stuck against the wall so even being able to flash away from trundle is still more counterplay.

Trist mid opopJun 25, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-25T15:39:49.541+0000)

There is counterplay to Morde’s Ult. You out duel him.

It’s not like he is litteraly holding you in one spot and you can’t do anything. Your entire kit is still available to you. And the area is large enough for kiting him to be viable.

He STEALS 10% of all ur core stats.

The thigh guyJun 25, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trist mid opop,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=00000000000100000001,timestamp=2019-06-25T17:39:14.907+0000)

He STEALS 10% of all ur core stats.

Okay? You still have your core kit and 90% of your stats. Not to mention you are now an ultimate ability up on him.

ZeromatsuJun 25, 20191 votes

So? Why would Morde ult you if he loses the trade?

Not only can he choose when to use it (when it's in his favor) but he also gets your stats. If it didn't have any kind of counterplay (outdueling isn't, since like I said: He chooses when to use the ability) it would be broken.

The thigh guyJun 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So? Why would Morde ult you if he loses the trade?

Not only can he choose when to use it (when it's in his favor) but he also gets your stats. If it didn't have any kind of counterplay (outdueling isn't, since like I said: He chooses when to use the ability) it would be broken

Okay? And? If he uses his ult on someone weak they were going to die anyways. :/

ZeromatsuJun 25, 20192 votes

"someone weak"? Not every champion is a duelist in the first place. Morde forcing you to do a 1v1 he chooses without counterplay is plain stupid. You could change it at this point to: "click on an enemy champ and get a kill".

Also that's my whole point? If he ults someone he is guaranteed to get the kill, without any way for the ulted player to do anything against it.

I just don't understand how you can defend this.

Light BurnerJun 25, 20193 votes

You lose 10% of your stats and HE GAINS THEM. so its actually a 20% stat deficit for. target's current attack damage, ability power, total attack speed, maximum health, armor, magic resist, and size by 10%. At best taking an adc turns them into an even squishier target and makes morde hit that much harder while even then still gaining tank stats. Taking the frontline gives morde an 800 hp advantage for tanks that 4k hp. Not to mention around +40 armor and +40 magic resist for 200/200 tanks.This isnt even considering what this does to mages carries if he uses them. +40 ad if he grabs a zed while zed gets -40ad mages lose 80 ap roughly and he gains it thats 2 needlessly large rods. And thats without the other base stats that hes taking. Are you really gonna compare a 3500 gold ult roughly of stats equal to any other ult in the game?

Luther King Jr VJun 25, 201911 votes

god forbid he has counterplay with that overloaded kit he has right?

The thigh guyJun 25, 201915 votes

[{quoted}](name=Luther King Jr V,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-25T04:10:07.613+0000)

god forbid he has counterplay with that overloaded kit he has right?

He’s no more overloaded than half the other cancerous shit in this game.

Luther King Jr VJun 25, 20194 votes

nice joke

The thigh guyJun 25, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Luther King Jr V,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T11:48:38.801+0000)

nice joke

Yasuo? Akali? Irelia? Ekko? Aatrox?

You’re actually about to argue he’s more overloaded than these 5?

Light BurnerJun 25, 20193 votes

I mean without his ult he's just as overloaded as those 5. Having cc dmg and sustain. Remember this is without his ult. Those 5 actually need their ults to maintain the same "overloaded kit".The only thing you can argue is mobility which morde gains in tankiness through his shield and regen. Not to mention if we include his ult he steals stats.

The thigh guyJun 25, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=00010000000000000002,timestamp=2019-06-25T19:33:09.744+0000)

I mean without his ult he's just as overloaded as those 5. Having cc dmg and sustain. Remember this is without his ult. Those 5 actually need their ults to maintain the same "overloaded kit".The only thing you can argue is mobility which morde gains in tankiness through his shield and regen. Not to mention if we include his ult he steals stats.

I’m going to use the yasuo example here. And I’ll do without ults. Morde has as you put it. Cc Damage Sustain Tank

Yasuo has Mobility Cc Damage Pseudo tank (shield) High stay efficiency (double crit) Immunity from ranged anything Low cooldowns And

And somehow you want to argue Morde is too overloaded?

Light BurnerJun 25, 20193 votes

Morde has as you put it. 1.Cc 2.Damage 3.Sustain 4.Tank 5.Damage immunity

Yasuo has 1.Mobility 2.conditional Cc 3.Damage 4.conditional Pseudo tank (shield) 5.Immunity from ranged anything

What's the dmg? for yasuo? You labled dmg than you labeled double crit which is dmg then you labeled low cooldowns which falls under more dmg and mobility. You left out that morde's ability provides the cc where as yasuo's ability is conditional cc on his 3rd Q so lets adjust that. Now lets take a look at base stats morde has 50 more hp at level 1 than yasuo scaling up to 100 hp at level 18. He has more ad than yasuo by 1 scaling up to 15 at level 18. Yasuo has more attack speed by .05 and scales better by 25%. Morde starts off with 7 more armor than yasuo and yasuo scales to be just shy of morde at level 18. Morde also starts with 2 more magic resist that scales at the same rate as yasuo.

Immunity from ranged anything -Lux lasers velkoz lasers lucian Q. Oh btw this only lasts for 4 seconds on a 26 second cooldown so for 22 seconds hes not immune to ranged attacks but i guess that means he's still immune. Since morde has a shield on his kit lets say hes immune to all dmg, So adjusting the list. Or we can just take them both out ill let you decide that.

Look at that their both even. Now if we add in morde's ult and yasuo's ult. Yasuo gets dmg on a conditional cc ability. Morde gets a point and click that makes it 1v1 and steals defensive stats from the target. Which do you think brings the more overloaded kit. You can decide which is more overloaded between their ults.

So if we were to fix up your list it would read,

The thigh guyJun 25, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=0001000000000000000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T20:35:38.730+0000)

Morde has as you put it. 1.Cc 2.Damage 3.Sustain 4.Tank 5.Damage immunity

Yasuo has 1.Mobility 2.conditional Cc 3.Damage 4.conditional Pseudo tank (shield) 5.Immunity from ranged anything

What's the dmg? for yasuo? You labled dmg than you labeled double crit which is dmg then you labeled low cooldowns which falls under more dmg and mobility. You left out that morde's ability provides the cc where as yasuo's ability is conditional cc on his 3rd Q so lets adjust that. Now lets take a look at base stats morde has 50 more hp at level 1 than yasuo scaling up to 100 hp at level 18. He has more ad than yasuo by 1 scaling up to 15 at level 18. Yasuo has more attack speed by .05 and scales better by 25%. Morde starts off with 7 more armor than yasuo and yasuo scales to be just shy of morde at level 18. Morde also starts with 2 more magic resist that scales at the same rate as yasuo.

Immunity from ranged anything -Lux lasers velkoz lasers lucian Q. Oh btw this only lasts for 4 seconds on a 26 second cooldown so for 22 seconds hes not immune to ranged attacks but i guess that means he's still immune. Since morde has a shield on his kit lets say hes immune to all dmg, So adjusting the list. Or we can just take them both out ill let you decide that.

Look at that their both even. Now if we add in morde's ult and yasuo's ult. Yasuo gets dmg on a conditional cc ability. Morde gets a point and click that makes it 1v1 and steals defensive stats from the target. Which do you think brings the more overloaded kit. You can decide which is more overloaded between their ults.

So if we were to fix up your list it would read,

Okay. I’m done with you. If you think a point and click knock up is “conditional” then you have some serious problems dude.

What’s the condition? He has to use it?

Does that mean lissandra has a conditional stun? Because she has to click on someone?

Light BurnerJun 25, 20193 votes

Do you know the difference between point and click and skill shot?

An auto attack is point and click. A lux Q a yasuo Q a Zed Q are skill shots they can be missed.

So lux can snare targets instantly like ryze?

Lux has a conditional snare Ryze has a snare

I didnt really think you'd stoop this low to try to make a case that now you make yourself sound like you dont know anything about league.

The thigh guyJun 25, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=000100000000000000020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T20:42:02.978+0000)

Do you know the difference between point and click and skill shot?

An auto attack is point and click. A lux Q a yasuo Q a Zed Q are skill shots they can be missed.

So lux can snare targets instantly like ryze?

Lux has a conditional snare Ryze has a snare

I didnt really think you'd stoop this low to try to make a case that now you make yourself sound like you dont know anything about league.

His e-q is a point and click knock up. Jesus Christ there is no helping you.

I’m convinced you are just trolling at this point.

Light BurnerJun 25, 20193 votes

You know his E-Q can be missed right? And aside from that it requires you to be in melee range of the target within that 4 seconds of him getting access to his tornado. Im convinced you actually don't know anything about league.

The thigh guyJun 25, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Light Burner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=h7b01gAg,comment-id=00010000000000000002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T20:49:22.499+0000)

You know his E-Q can be missed right? And aside from that it requires you to be in melee range of the target within that 4 seconds of him getting access to his tornado. Im convinced you actually don't know anything about league.

It can be missed. If they flash maybe. :/ we are talking core kits. Not outside forces.

And so what if it requires you to be in melee on a MELEE champion. It’s his fucking kit.

The only “condition” is that he uses it.

Mordes ult is suddenly conditional cc. Because he has to press r. And you know. It’s right under the 5 key and if he gets really confused he might accidentally alt f4 out of the game. That’s the kind of definition of “conditional” you seem to be operating under.

Light BurnerJun 25, 20193 votes

if you dash too far forward it can be missed (so dashing when your in the face of your target).

And when did i say it wasnt hit kit? I said it can be missed meaning its not point and click. If veigar clicks R on you and you flash you're still gonna get hit by it.

You obviously dont understand what conditional means so lets go back to basics. Ill treat you like a preschooler. Theres abilities that can be cast instantly and abilities that need certain conditions to take effect. Vayne's W for example, no matter what the hell you choose to do you arent gonna proc with it with 1 auto only. She has to auto multiple times, again this is a condition. Unlike all of morde's abilities which are just clicked and used. you can make the claim his E is conditional cc but his R is point and click. Since you dont understand this yasuo's tornado is on his 3rd Q. which means he has to stack it either during the fight or prior to the fight and each Q has to be within 4 seconds of the prior Q. Are you seeing where the condition comes from now? Or are you just gonna bitch and cry that you didnt want to use logic in your post.

Light BurnerJun 25, 20193 votes

Conditional knockup was meant he had to stack to the 3rd Q before hes able to get a knockup. He doesnt get the knockup on demand.

Look im not gonna sit here and play this game with you. You can nitpick all you want, Morde is overloaded and they need to gut some of that control he has over his entire kit. Im not gonna keep up this petty debate because you cant understand wording.

EDIT: I even stated it in the first post "You left out that morde's ability provides the cc where as yasuo's ability is conditional cc on his 3rd Q so lets adjust that." If you can't read just say it but stop arguing stupid shit, im actually done responding to you. From now on you'll get a post from me anytime you post some stupid shit basically telling you its dumb and no response after that.

Light BurnerJun 25, 20193 votes

Again that doesnt imply that ability knocks up every time on his Q it only knocks up on his 3rd Q. Back to the vayne example shes supposed to auto attack does that mean her W has no condition to it? No she still needs to auto a target 3 times to get the proc in most cases (rageblade and her E change that case), but again condition. If met they get the extra benefit of the ability. Why do you refuse to listen to any reason and just sit on your own one way street?

Meteora707Jun 25, 20192 votes

i think you're confusing overloaded with overstated fam

Luther King Jr VJun 25, 20191 votes

hes both i am not confusing anything

Meteora707Jun 25, 20192 votes

he has 1 cc ability, 1 shielding ability and a passive that does damage with the most generic Q in the game, if this is overloaded in your eyes you might want to get your eyes checked.

Luther King Jr VJun 25, 20191 votes

his ulti is technically a cc ability it isolates u from the map and ur teammates also that "one cc ability" is too good

why has a pull and peel in one ability for god's sake idc how generic u think its abilities are if they do their job excellently well and feel bad to play against i think i believe myself over ur biased opinion

JackMcCarryJun 25, 20192 votes

{quoted}

he has 1 cc ability, 1 shielding ability and a passive that does damage with the most generic Q in the game, if this is overloaded in your eyes you might want to get your eyes checked.

His passive also give him movespeed. His passive also gives his AA 40% AP scaling. His Q doubles as both good wave clear and 1v1 tool since it boosts his damage by 40% in a 1v1. His shielding ability can also heal him if he chooses. His E also gives him 25% magic pen as a passive. He also has 0 resource managment. That's not even mentioning his ult.

But way to leave out a few details.