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Why Use Nocturne Over Rengar?

Troy242621··3 votes·1,773 views

TL;DR: While Nocturne certainly has some advantages, both Rengar and Nocturne fill the same general niche, and Rengar is a superior choice because his advantages are more beneficial to the role that they both fill, leaving Nocturne outclassed.

RENGAR ADVANTAGES

  • Rengar has better pick potential (Ult reveals, his burst is higher, his sustained damage is higher)
  • He's better as an assassin for the above reason
  • He's a better bruiser due to superior innate tankiness and mobility steroids
  • His CDs are lower
  • Rengar scales to end game fairly well; Nocturne falls off considerably
  • Rengar scales better at level 6
  • Rengar pre-6 has better ganks than Nocturne pre-6
  • When fed, Rengar can carry harder than a fed Nocturne
  • Due to his reveal, his objective control is arguably superior
  • Rengar's pick potential is less vision-reliant due to its reveal aspect.
  • Rengar's ultimate doubles as an escape, and even if used to initiate, grants a MS boost, making him arguably harder to stop mid/end game.
  • Because of the aforementioned stealth ultimate, Rengar's split pushing is still superior to Nocturne's.
  • Rengar's E can be harder to avoid, whereas champions can use their escape or Flash to break Nocturne's fear tether.

NOCTURNE ADVANTAGES

  • Nocturne has superior jungle-clearing sustain
  • Nocturne can be a superior duelist against ability-reliant bursters (Due to W Spellshield) when played properly
  • Nocturne can clear the jungle faster early game
  • Nocturne's ultimate denies vision to enemies, which is highly underappreciated
  • When Nocturne catches a squishy out, there is usually very little they can do to avoid death (Other than preventative measures; IE not being caught at all)
  • MS boost isn't tied to his ultimate
  • His spellshield makes avoiding his pick attempt more difficult if the target in question lack Flash or a built-in escape mechanic, such as Jinx, Ashe (Whose panic ultimate can be negated by W), Varus, Kog'Maw and so on. Effectively, this allows him to negate peel, something Rengar can only attempt to do by snaring and hoping they lack hard CC. Rengar's MS boost alleviates this to an extent.

Overall, I think it's pretty safe to conclude that Rengar is the superior pick assassin/dive bruiser. Nocturne could use some help being given a reason to be chosen over Rengar, because currently, there are too few reasons to choose him over the jungle cat.

13 Comments

AtheosisX2 votes

Why? Personal preference is why. Also your conclusion that Rengar is outright better is rather spurious.

Troy2426211 votes

{quoted}

Why? Personal preference is why. Also your conclusion that Rengar is outright better is rather spurious.

I get liking Nocturne, I really do, but given they fill the exact same role, I think they can be objectively compared. I'm not comparing skills while neglecting context here, I think comparing the two is perfectly fair.

AtheosisX2 votes

You can compare them all you want. It's the "there's no reason to play champ x because champ z is better" stuff that is silly. There are well over a hundred champions to cater to personal preference and to add variety. So basically what you are saying is pointless. Also, like I said, it's really quite spurious. They are both solid picks.

Dreadlocks2 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Rengar http://champion.gg/champion/Nocturne

apparently Nocturne does Rengar's job better? ^^;

Troy2426211 votes

{quoted}

http://champion.gg/champion/Rengar http://champion.gg/champion/Nocturne

apparently Nocturne does Rengar's job better? ^^;

It's been said before, and I'll say it again. Winrates aren't direct indicators of power. Especially when the difference is 4%.

Dreadlocks3 votes

Its funny how people say this, but then when their champion has a low winrate, they use it as a stat when asking for a buff. Winrates do mean something.. It shows which champions are winning and which are losing. Hense win rate... If you're going to say winrate doesn't matter, then before Elise got buffed she had a 45% winrate or less, but now its nearly 54. So what you are saying is, her buffs are meaningless, even though it resulted in her winrate going up.

Troy2426211 votes

If I missed an advantage for either side, I'd love to hear it. What do you all think? Am I being unfair, or is Nocturne in need of a little help?

Dreadlocks2 votes

Yeah you are comparing apples to oranges. Rengar is suppose to instagib his target.. Jump land, dead. Nocturne doesnt instagib his target, but he's usually a lot more useful after he jumps in because he can afford to build tanky.. not only aford to, but he needs to. You are comparing a Pure assassin, to a bruiser.

50000000000000001 votes

It's a minor thing, but Nocturne has a surprisingly good Dragon/Baron control. Dragon's basic attack counts as a spell, so you can proc your spell shield/AS steroid. Similar with Baron, although not all of Baron's attacks are spells.

Also, Rengar is manaless.

Troy2426211 votes

{quoted}

It's a minor thing, but Nocturne has a surprisingly good Dragon/Baron control. Dragon's basic attack counts as a spell, so you can proc your spell shield/AS steroid. Similar with Baron, although not all of Baron's attacks are spells.

Also, Rengar is manaless.

Yeah I thought about him being manaless but Nocturne doesn't really have mana troubles regardless, to be honest. I feel as though needing high ferocity before ganking was fairly gating itself; so I kind of called that one a push.

You think it helps that much in Rango's favor? Also, Rengar's reveal and stealth is pretty good for objective control, not to mention his bush leaping. His teamfighting in the jungle is phenomenal.

50000000000000001 votes

I think I heard somewhere that Nocturne is a better splitpusher, since he can join teamfight relatively easily with his ultimate.

I think being a better teamfighter is more important, though.

All In Forms1 votes

I feel like noct can afford to build tankier while still being a threat to carries. if you get devourer+bork or warrior+bork you can be tank everything else and still shred squishies. and i feel like he isn't as reliant on snowballing. if the game goes poorly early on noc just build tank and be an initiate.

UltraSceptile1 votes

Because nocturne's ult grants more utility. A nocturne with only one or two damage items can still output decent damage while being difficult to kite due to his Q and E, and the lack of vision his ult provides is a huge disruption tool that can turn the tide of a fight as they can't see what's going on. Rengar is basically build glass cannon I hope I can kill you before you kill me but nocturne denies all vision while doing a pretty big chunk of damage onto a squishy while being moderately tanky due to spellshield and the items you bought.

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