Certainly T loves to cover his champs weaknesses

DeadUnborn·Jul 16, 2018·9 votes·3,175 views

Just look at the pattern

Yasuo gets a windwall and shield so he isn't weak against range Kalista gets a dash autos so she isn't weak against divers WW gets to follow champs that dash during Q so he can follow them no matter what Zoe's bubble couln't be cleansed and it refunded CD so if someone jumped on top of her she couldn't get out

Now akali's stealth can't be revealed and she gets like 3 or 4 dashes in her kit

The guy just doesn't like counterplay on his champs

Now I'm sure Riot will make it so that towers reveal akali, but it is still bs that Certainly wouldn't cover for it earlier

65 Comments

SugeMinPikkJul 16, 20187 votes

Yasuo windwall has a long cooldown Kalista is still weak to cc and champions who just have movement speed or also have multiple dashes WW has to time his q correctly Zoe's bubble could be cleansed after the hard CC applied. How was that so fucking hard for people to grasp? Just cleanse it after it sleeps you. Christ..

ReshiKillimJul 16, 20182 votes

Akali can be revealed but her stealth makes her untargetable. But it seems to function differently in comparison to other forms of untargetability.

DeadUnbornJul 17, 20181 votes

question is why...

chipndip1Jul 17, 20181 votes

Because why have a massive roster if everyone does the same shit?

DeadUnbornJul 17, 20181 votes

akali would still be diferent without the added effect thoug..

chipndip1Jul 17, 20181 votes

How?

Her E's a targeted gap closer after landing a skill shot, like Lee.

Her Q's just a projectile.

Her ult's some dashes.

The big thing in her kit is her shroud. Don't just randomly say shit unless you have something to back it with.

DeadUnbornJul 17, 20181 votes

yeah, and the shroud is still unique without it having true stealth... that is why I said:

akali would still be diferent without the added effect though.

so "Don't just randomly say shit unless you have something to back it with lol"

chipndip1Jul 17, 20181 votes

How many assassins can be either fully invisible or generally camouflaged in the game already? How is that "unique" that she'd have a shittier version of stealth where you know the general area she's going to be in when she does it? Guess what that'd be? A nerfed version of the same thing she has right now.

Oh, I gotta add something to slightly disrespect you like a "lol" or something...

#KID

DeadUnbornJul 17, 20181 votes

hmmmm. How is that different? you can dart in and out of cover multiple times and be stealthed after attacking...

chipndip1Jul 17, 20181 votes

Here's the thing:

If we're going out of our way to rework a champion in the first place, and not just a rework, but a relaunch, which is what a VGU is, why would we use a full on VGU to do nothing new with the champion? You might as well just not VGU the champion at all.

Thus, they made the shroud more dynamic to work with and against, with new weaknesses and strengths on either side of the equation (the shroud steadily loses mass as it lingers, which reduces variance of where she could be in the shroud, but she can now counter reliable damage better). What's the problem? The strengths? Then exploit the new weaknesses instead of letting her play into its new strengths.

You also forget that she's not going to be life stealing nearly as much as she used to, to boot. As you put in new weaknesses, you make room for cooler tools and new strengths. That's the point of VGUs for older champions.

DeadUnbornJul 17, 20181 votes

you are diverging the topic to something completely different

chipndip1Jul 17, 20181 votes

No I'm not. The point of invisibility is for positioning/repositioning, right? Akali's shroud was so fucking shit that they added a small blink to it to make her usable. So now that they're doing a relaunch of the entire character, we revert her W back to the shit it was? For what reason? Updated graphics and a few dashes (which she already has)? The shroud was unique in how legitimately fucking awful it was as a stealth mechanic. So bad they had it hybridized with a generic blink just to make it not shit.

So yeah, they upped the anti on the shroud's strengths and weaknesses and took out the blink.

DeadUnbornJul 18, 20181 votes

yep, we are not discussing the same topic bud. Wether you like the new W or not or find it good/not good is a side point

DrCyanideJul 17, 20182 votes

Why give mechanics names at all if they don't behave consistently or are unique to one champion?

chipndip1Jul 17, 20181 votes

They do behave consistently...when they have the same name. Duh. There's no "obscured" effect in the game, but if someone ELSE has that mechanic in the future, they'll use the same name. Simple.

AirKingNeoJul 16, 20182 votes

akali has 3 dashes and 1 of them requires a skillshot.

chipndip1Jul 17, 20182 votes

Yasuo: Highest win rate is in bot lane by a significant margin, because he needs extra help so he doesn't feed his ass off.

Kalista: Kalista was designed to be strong against melee champs and be an alternative approach to attack moving. Her kit is massively problematic, regardless, but she's supposed to be strong against melee champs.

WW: ...WW is supposed to be able to chase down targets...that's his whole fucking theme.

Zoe: Zoe's bubble could be cleansed all the time. You had to cleanse the SLEEPING EFFECT rather than the drowsy, however, and only with proper timing could you cleanse the drowsy effect and not worry about the sleeping effect taking hold (when using a Crucible at least). Now they made it so you can cleanse the drowsy and not worry about it, anyway, but the initial thing was apparently intentional regardless.

Akali: DROP AN AOE ON THE SHROUD AND SHE STILL GETS HIT.

DeadUnbornJul 17, 20181 votes

never said they were broken, just that certainly t coveted their weaknesses. to be fair all except ww have been balance nightmares tho

chipndip1Jul 17, 20181 votes

The point is that they all still clearly have weaknesses, ESPECIALLY fucking Zoe.

DeadUnbornJul 17, 20181 votes

now she does, back when she was released she didn't tho.. just look at the patch notes..

chipndip1Jul 17, 20181 votes

A weakness and a strength are two different things. Are you trying to get a rise out of me?

DeadUnbornJul 17, 20181 votes

I don't even know what you are trying to say tbh. Go read my OP cause you are discussing something completely different

chipndip1Jul 17, 20181 votes

"CertainlyT loves to cover the weaknesses of his champs"

No, many of them have weaknesses that aren't covered. Zoe especially, since her weaknesses are people dodging/cleansing/shielding her E and aggressive mobility towards her, since it reduces her damage output off Q and she has no escapes.

"Zoe had no weaknesses until she was nerfed"

...yes she did, but her strengths were overtuned. Those are two different things

"I don't get what you're saying. You should reread my po-"

No I read them just fine and they're still as faulty as they were when I responded the first time.

DeadUnbornJul 17, 20182 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm] [zombie-brand-clap]

chipndip1Jul 17, 20181 votes

That doesn't make or change anything so I'm going to consider this conversation done now.

DeadUnbornJul 18, 20181 votes

you one of those hu?

RalanrJul 17, 20182 votes

Yasuo was built to be good into ranged.

DeadUnbornJul 18, 20181 votes

mmm yeha, kinda my point. He should be weak against ranged but Certainly T made it so that he countered two entire different kind of champs (mages and adcs) just so he could have his cool mid lane samurai

RalanrJul 18, 20181 votes

Dude no. He’s strong into range, but meant to be weak against Melee.

DeadUnbornJul 18, 20182 votes

weak against melee? wtf? he is just weak against like wukong, jax, riven camille and renek. Besides e was "intended" to be a mid laner. You just pulled that out your butt

RalanrJul 18, 20181 votes

Being intended to be a mid laner means he’s “intended” to fight ranged champions which means he’s “intended” to be strong against them.

He’s supposed to be weak against Melee because he’s squishy.

DeadUnbornJul 18, 20181 votes

your logic is flawed. Being "strong" against ranged and being "able to fight" ranged are two different things

He isn't supposed to be weak against melee, and he historically hasn't been, except against a handful of melee champs (around 5-6)

IllabetheJul 17, 20181 votes

Her new Smokescreen is more of a weakness than a strength. No Dash on it, and it's MUCH easier to hit skill shots in, since the center is hollow, and the outer walls are about the width of most skill shots.

DeadUnbornJul 17, 20181 votes

not really since only one of her 4 dashes is targeted. i want to see you say that once a 2 0 akali dives you under tower level 6 reseting tower agro...

IllabetheJul 17, 20181 votes

I would only play proper aoe champs versus her. So I wouldn't worry. And I can burn 2 sec of her 5 sec screen with a counter Zhonya. And if she attacks me, I know exactly where in the cloud she is to nuke her.

DeadUnbornJul 17, 20181 votes

you can do that against current akali. You are really missing the point

IllabetheJul 17, 20181 votes

What is the point then? If she dies, she dies.

DeadUnbornJul 18, 20181 votes

yeah but current akali can't dive you under tower juggling tower agro lol. For example if you first a non AoE champ and she goes against you you are screwed because she can dive you with W, which is unnecesary

And besides my whole point isn't whether her W is broken or not, but rather that it covers a weakness the character should have (true sight), for no apparent reason

TheDeviceJul 17, 20182 votes

its actually a really clever design. It forces the akali to make somewhat predictable movements.

HalcyonDwellerJul 17, 20181 votes

Yeah, I'm looking forwards to playing against it in this form actually. It will be simpler to outplay or get outplayed, and some of my mains rely on AoE so I can try and counter her that way.

TheDeviceJul 17, 20181 votes

**Twitch **has invisibility and ranged attacks that offset his low health (weakness)
**Graves **has lots of built-in defensive stats to offset his short range (weakness)
**Vayne **has a short dash, stealth and hard cc to offset her short range and low health (weakness)
**Gangplank **has a built-in cleanse and aoe-slows to offset his low mobility (weakness)
**Riven **has a low-cooldown shield that works off her AD which offsets her would-be low durability and low base defensive stats (weakness)

I can go on for days showing how so many champions have built-in mechanics to band-aid their glaring weaknesses.

DeadUnbornJul 18, 20181 votes

hmmm I was gonna refute your examples but they are really silly and not comparable. You are not even identifying each of the champs weaknesses (Only GP is valid but he is still weak against burts and tankiness)

Vayne, Twitch Graves and Riven doesn't make sense really. You just cite base stats as counter weaknesses

TheDeviceJul 18, 20181 votes

For one, as it's been stated, yasuo was designed to be strong against ranged opponents, not weak. I'm sure its difficult to see my point when you're obviously confused about the intentions and even weaknesses of the kits themselves.

When describing what you think is their weak point, also consider what is their strong point. Also consider how those weaknesses may be overcome, usually only briefly, through their kit. Again, twitch is very vulnerable, he has no hard cc and only a little bit of ms. If he didn't have his stealth, not only would he not fit the theme of an assassin mutant rat, but he'd be would not succeed in that area because his weaknesses would be too easily exploited.

Why do assassins who have low health (a weakness) also have high mobility and escapes, sometimes full on stealth? Its because you have to be able to give them some wiggle room to be successful at their job and as a champion in general.

DeadUnbornJul 18, 20181 votes

yeah, since you bring champ class weaknesses up:

Mages counter is someone getting on their face so Zoe at launch had E refund so she could CC them and then get to use her whole combo a little while later

Melees counter is ranged early game, so Yasuo gets a shield and windwall to nulify that

ADCs weakness is someone getting on their face, so kalista gets perma dashes to deny that

Divers weakness is being kited, so WW gets a lock on ability to stop that.

Stealth Assassin's weakness is true sight, so Akali gets to not bother about it

You see the pattern there? It is pretty obvious IMO. And again I am not discussing whether each champ is broken or not, just that CT likes to cover his champs weaknesses

Yasuo for example, was built to counter ranged just so he could sit mid lane because that is where certainly T wanted him. He was built to cover his weaknesses and counter two whole champion classes by sheer BS design (pasisve shield and W lasting so long). Also your whole argument falls apart because he was also "designed" to be weak early game and farm up to scale by mid game. We all know how that turned out...

TheDeviceJul 18, 20181 votes

Also your whole argument falls apart because he was also "designed" to be weak early game and farm up to scale by mid game.

only that wasn't my argument. My argument is that he was meant to counter ranged champs mid. You just admitted that but at the same time defend your original statement. You're not doing a good job at being consistent, man lol.

You've already decided that there is only one side to this so further conversations are pointless.

DeadUnbornJul 18, 20181 votes

Mmm, whut? My original statement is melee champs are supposed to be weak against ranged but yasuo was designed to counter range so he wudn't be weak against it.... people here do not know how to read

TheDeviceJul 18, 20181 votes

Just like Kassadin is supposed to be weak against ranged champions?

You don't understand the point. The intention of Yasuo's design was to be strong against ranged champions.

Melee isn't a champion design. Melee is an aspect of a champion design.

DeadUnbornJul 18, 20181 votes

LOL I agree CT designed the champ to not be weak against ranged, that is my whole point xd

TheDeviceJul 18, 20181 votes

You're saying he's meant to be vulnerable to ranged simply because he's melee, which are all your own expectations, so now he's busted because he's not.

You've created your own expectations which do not reflect the actual game and argue that riot is not meeting these contrived parameters.

Ahri is a ranged mage who is far less susceptible to melee champions than Xerath because of her mobility. In fact, I could make the same argument in saying that mages weakness is their mobility. Completely an idea of my own making and not at all reflective of Riots design philosophy.

You also countered your own logic by saying "Mages are somebody who's weak to people getting on their face" .... oh.. like a melee champion?

You also have champions like Aatrox Yasuo Gnar Kassadin Fizz who are far less susceptible to being bullied by ranged champions than others. Thats not an accident. It's intentional.

Again, melee isn't a design. It's just a single part of a whole design. The design is the fantasy, the theme, and the purpose of that champion. Your r/p/s expectations are irrelevant.

DeadUnbornJul 18, 20181 votes

never said he was busted, just that CT covered his weaknesses... oh and range counter melee early, doesn't aren't my expectations but fact. My point is that CT especifically introduces champ mecanics so that his champs arent weak against something they should be weak against otherwise. Said mechanics dont flow with the kit otherwise

Yasuo passive shield and W don't flow with Q, E and R Zoe bubble resets don't flow with her burst pattern Kalista dashes don't flow with her theme of depending on supports obscured on akali doesn't make sense as invis is literally the same thing but has a counter