Calling Yasuo mains to save his rework

DeadUnborn··54 votes·5,165 views

So, as seen here bellow, Yasuo will recieve a mini update (like rek Sai or Kindred) on the near future. I wanted for people to comment possible solutions to his kit so he isn't annoying to play against:

https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6g3asi/as_of_the_10_ban_system_yasuo_now_has_a_924_ban/dinmrbd/

I would think 3 possible non exclusive ways to fix him would be: reducing windwall's duration/ put a .25 secs cast time on windwall Have his E and W cost flow and his autos and Q gain flow with increased effects against champions Have his e be on an ammo system like akali ult but with more charges (fixed number or scaling per skill point). Knocking up champions, ulting could refresh charges

So...what you guys think? What I am trying to counter is Yasuo's frsutration a a resoruceless/ hypermobile champ. The problem with this changes is they might increase his skill floor too much, which Riot is also trying to alliviate

243 Comments

EndlessSorcerer62 votes

Personal preferences:

Those are the main changes I would like to his current kit. The power taken can be redistributed if necessary.

Voluug139 votes

The 3th one is a problem with the other champions I think, since they are coded as one proyectile and not several smaller ones.

EndlessSorcerer19 votes

Yeah, I'm aware.

Thankfully, Maokai's ultimate should be able to serve as the basis for similar abilities on other champions.

Arakadia2 votes

If they don't give his wind wall some sort of delay for how long it lasts, I think it should be a short delay short duration projectile blocker.

AmazoX2 votes

{quoted}

Personal preferences:

Those are the main changes I would like to his current kil. The power taken can be redistributed if necessary.

Agreed completely.

Void Kaiju3 votes

Those are good suggestions, but would just be nerfing him rather than actually solving the problems in his kit, namely: He is extremely strong when ahead and can't do more than tickle your ween when behind. All he is if he has been kept from finishing items is an ultimate, and with the q3 duration nerf he has to get in and charge it up first. What he needs is to swap some of his flashy outplay potential for some more consistent power allowing him to be actually able to do things from behind other than farm 5ever until he has items and is useful.

Also in terms of windwall I'd rather it be a wind slash that blocks projectiles in a swoopy shape in front of him for a very short time, like he swings his sword and blocks it. It could have a shorter cooldown and let him block important missile attacks (hard cc, ults, etc.) without completely shutting down marksmen. Plus the shorter cooldown would mean he could use it more than one time. Maybe he would gain flow for his passive based on the number of things he blocks with it too, that would be cool.

EndlessSorcerer3 votes

I wanted to target the portions of his kit which I found most aggravating.

If they redistribute the power elsewhere in his kit, I have stated that I am not opposed.

Void Kaiju2 votes

Yeah you were one of the more reasonable comments which is why I actually replied to you! My thoughts on your comment were merely that you didn't say where you thought the power could go, since all those changes would take away a chunk of what little reliability he has that would mean the places he gets power would likely make his feast or famine nature more pronounced rather than less.

I do think you made good points though, and when I wrote my reply to this threadI kept them in mind!

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

Honestly, I just wasn't sure where the power would be best placed.

Base stats would probably be one of the better locations for the sake of reliability (so he's slightly less item dependent) but that might cause other issues.

I figured I would leave that those more experienced with champion balance.

Void Kaiju3 votes

You could check out my comment on this thread for how I think it would best go. I think base stats are a no-no because if he had... say, higher resists per level he wouldnt bother waiting for his shield, and he certainly doesn't need higher damage. Plus higher base stats might mark the return of the dreaded tankuo.

I'd say if you're looking at a champions kit see how the spells could succeed vs how they could fail. it is important to allow failure, but at the same time if everything can fail horribly, then it needs to conversely be super strong when it succeds (yasuo is an example of this). His E imo is the biggest problem to his balance. It allows him to get in but makes it a challenge to get out in teamfights or if he is ganked or if he isn't already snowballing. Whilst when he snowballs his e makes him a chasing, kiting monster who runs you down and slaughters you.

Don't let inexperience bog you down! Sharing ideas is what helps you gain experience anyway.

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

Don't let inexperience bog you down! Sharing ideas is what helps you gain experience anyway.

I was more worried about overreaching in my initial argument.

If I were to offer incorrect suggestions regarding how they could strength Yasuo in my initial post, it could easily draw attention away from the rest of my argument.

Better to focus on the key issues and progress from there to avoid distractions or tangents.

HalcyonDweller27 votes

Someone suggested that wind wall should not block projectiles that hit it sideways or at a shallow angle. This would better define that Yasuo has to aim it and would also offer opponents a means of fighting around it if they re-position correctly.

DrCyanide29 votes

I feel like some change to make Yasuo have to aim Wind Wall is a requirement. It really sucks when you catch him off guard, throw out your stun, he panic Wind Walls 180 degrees away from where your stun is coming from at the last possible moment and it still blocks it.

DeadUnborn6 votes

Yeah this is a problem for sure. Someone mentioned that having windwall not spawn at Yasuo's location would fix this

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

It's been mentioned by many since his release. I'd included it in my list above.

DunkinNoobs18 votes

Anyone who says anything like "X should cost flow" is immediately disqualified because you have blatantly no idea how the champions functions.

DeadUnborn9 votes

Would you mind to elaborate on why flow costs would not work, other than saying I am wrong.

Yeah, having flow costs would change how Yasuo is played, and that is the point. He shouldn't be able to midnlessly have every single ability at practically all times except for W to do whatever he wants; he should have windows were he is powerfull and spaces were he isn't as much. Flow could regenerate with movement (like now) and attacks on champions to compensate for the costs. The whole free shield is pretty OP on a hypermoble champion that already has a skill that nullifies projectiles

DunkinNoobs17 votes

{quoted}

Would you mind to elaborate on why flow costs would not work, other than saying I am wrong.

I'm irritated that I actually have to explain this. Do you understand how Yasuo's flow works? It's generated by moving and does nothing until the bar is full, upon which case the next damage he takes will proc the shield and drain ALL of his flow. All of it. And he can't control when that flow will be expended since his shield is triggered automatically when he takes damage. Can you understand why tying his ability to a resource he can't control would make the champion unplayable? All it would take to beat Yasuo is to pop his shield whenever it comes up and then kill him effortlessly now that he has no flow and thus can't cast any abilities.

DeadUnborn3 votes

Im practice is just a shield which's CD scales down with moevemnt speed, which by proxy scales with crit because most crit items give movement speed. Malzahar has a shield as well, and rakan. The ability is not as complicated, punishing as you make it out to be, because Yasuo also has his W to counter incomming damage, so he can alternate between the 2, and in lane he will have his passive up every time a new minion wave arrives.

If you read carefully, I said he could charge flow back up with attacks and movement... if the shield needs to go for that to work then it goes, no biggie. It can be compensated by a simple armor per level, health regen buff

DunkinNoobs19 votes

{quoted}

if the shield needs to go for that to work then it goes, no biggie. It can be compensated by a simple armor per level, health regen buff

You do realize that Yasuo's shield is for his opponents sake, not his, right? Giving him a shield but mediocre defensive stats in exchange is intended to give him windows of strength and weakness. Remove that and suddenly Yasuo doesn't need to care nearly as much when he goes in, which I doubt you want.

Btw, your Malzahar example is garbage because he isn't prevented from casting his spells when his shield is down like Yasuo would be with your proposed change. You're right, it's effectively a shield with a CD that's reduced by moving. But it's also a shield that, like Malzahar, he can't control when it procs, which means you cannot tie ability usage to whether or not that shield is up. Imagine how terrible Malz would be if he couldn't cast spells whenever his shield was down. That's exactly what you propose to do to Yasuo, only worse because at least Malz shield protects him from CC before he gets fucked up the ass.

DeadUnborn3 votes

Yes, originally Yasuo's shield was so that he could have moments of strenght and weakness, but because he is so mobile that intended weakness went out to the dump because he can trade you while pushing lane with E and then back off until his shield comes away. Most champs don't have a passive shield and work fine. I'd rather have Yasuo's early game be gated by his ability to trade by CDs rather than by having him not have any damage dealt to him at all

No, Yasuo would not be impeded from casting spells because his W could be reworked into something that is fair enough so that it can be used on a shorter CD, or he could move exclusively to top lane and be with the likes of fiora, roven, jax and trynda . BTW malzahar and yasuo can control their passives by positioning and smart trading

DunkinNoobs12 votes

{quoted}

Yes, originally Yasuo's shield was so that he could have moments of strenght and weakness, but because he is so mobile that intended weakness went out to the dump because he can trade you while pushing lane with E and then back off until his shield comes away. Most champs don't have a passive shield and work fine. I'd rather have Yasuo's early game be gated by his ability to trade by CDs rather than by having him not have any damage dealt to him at all

That mobility you disparage is exactly why Yasuo has a shield. Yes, Yasuo can pick a fight at basically any time, especially against melee champs. But just because he can doesn't always mean he should. That shield is what separates the should and the should nots, and that was a very intentional design on Riot's part. They knew that a champ with this much mobility would need something else to give him moments of power and weakness. Instead of choosing CD's, they chose his shield and his Q+E stacks. Your unwillingness to play around those moments of strength is not a mark against Yasuo's design, but against you as a player.

DeadUnborn2 votes

That is Yasuo's intended design, yes. However in practice Yasuo covers this weakness by having complete agency of when trades happend thanks to his mobility. If you remove the shield and buff base stats, then Yasuo will have to yo choose between farming with W to protect him or trading with it, not rotate between E spam to push wave, deny farm with W and not get much damage done to him with passive, then back off and wait for next wave, which by then his shield will be back off. Since he has W, shield and Q zoning with tornado, he does not have many windows of weakness, hence the 96% ban rate... he is too frustrating.

In short, if you are say, Ziggs, and try to poke Yasuo while his shield is down, he will simply dash on to you and out trade you. The moments of opportunity you are talking about do not exist in practice, because life steal is a thing and Yasuo is resourceless while most other champions run out of mana

DunkinNoobs9 votes

I like how you talk to me as if I have no idea how Yasuo works.

Steelflame1 votes

Thats the point of a rework though. Hes being changed, and ideally they either will scrap his passive shield (perhaps just making it a regenerating shield if above X flow), and make flow an actual resource that he has to manage. You can stay at high flow and have the passive shield charging, or utilize your W or E to instead negate the incoming damage. If his mobility costed flow, they could even allow Yasuo to dash off of allied minions/units, because it would be at a cost to his defenses and/or damage to do so.

DunkinNoobs11 votes

You'd have to significantly buff both his abilities and his base numbers if you want to give Yasuo a resource to manage, and I highly, highly doubt you want that. I don't know what this rework will contain, but I can absolutely guarantee it will not contain the kind of resource restrictions people here dream about. His kit simply isn't designed to work with resource costs and thankfully, Riot realizes this even if their players don't.

DeadUnborn1 votes

I ams ure Yasuo's ability to dash will be limited, if not by flow then by a charge system or soemthing else. He has to be gated in some way in order to not be so annoying to play against

DunkinNoobs8 votes

Riot isn't going to remove the thing Yasuo is most known for. Not a fucking chance.

Sniperkaj1 votes

Is there a real reason he can't have mana costs? That would stop Yasuo in a good matchup (like vs my main Xerath) to use all his spells continually as soon as they are off CD, especially his E is really dumb - he will use it vs every single minion. If Yasuo went Tear, they could buff his midgame stats a bit in exchange of a nerf on his lategame stats (which i find far too strong)

DunkinNoobs7 votes

They'd either be so low as to be meaningless or so high as to be crippling. The former would basically leave the champ unchanged. The latter would require a complete re-balancing of the champion, likely with much, much higher base damage.

Syve2 votes

I love you @DunkinNoobs

Warhammer Titan17 votes

If a nami ult/mf ult hits yasuos windwall only the part that hits it should be stopped. The sides of the ult should still work

DrCyanide11 votes

That'd probably be a rework of Nami/MF's ult coding, not Wind Wall.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

They would have to work like Maokai's new ultimate.

MF's ult in particular would be insane to code, imagine that many projectiles being rendered and tracked by your game XD

On the other hand, if Nami's ult were reworked to flow more like water and go around things that might be super cool. Even if it would be hard to code.

CithriaC4 votes

MF's ult already does this.

My Heartshaker3 votes

MF Ult does this, the sides of her ult still go through (if channelled at long distance of course)

Kinnikuko12 votes

Is every "fix" idea just a nerf with no compensation?

I know people will put personal hate for a character (visible or not) over a champs best interests.

SlashStriker8 votes

put a .25 secs cast time on windwall

Disagree Players should be rewarded for having quick reaction and you are trying to destroy it

DeadUnborn2 votes

I understand your resoning. However given most champs have cast times I think Yasuo is put at an unfair advantage here

Automated Riven7 votes

based on the way windwall works I think that it should be instant. Its a reactionary ability and as such should not have cast times. and .25 seconds is a long time in league of legends. I think if windwall must be nerfed to please the masses then simply changing it to have some sort of counter so that if it eats like 5 projectiles its destroyed or something. or simply have it only last for .5 seconds so its literally used to block a single ability as the mechanics would suggest. Altho this would have to include some power buff elsewhere.

PokladnicaZla2 votes

Do reactionary abilities usually last 4seconds?

Automated Riven4 votes

Like I pointed out. The duration if anything could be adjusted. Not the cast time

Ralanr5 votes

Personally I think they should remove the size scaling of his wall and make it increase with duration in rank instead (starting at a shorter duration).

DeadUnborn1 votes

I think that would be a great trade-off. I'm not sure it would solve all of Yasuo's problems by itself though

Ralanr2 votes

Probably not. It's just my own solution to his wall.

SlashStriker3 votes

next update class - Skirmishers :3

altho here's proper Yasuo's Rework https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wq2xiW5G7ww

ChaosThief6 votes

Nonono, this is how people think yasuo currently is.

velkhaz2 votes

if his windwall was reworked as such:

Yasuo slices the air in front of him, creating a gust of wind that continues moving forwards slowly for 2 seconds, blocking any projectiles that would pass through it.

this allows both for more realistic mechanics and more timely interactions between players. I feel a shorter cooldown might be needed since the window of safe time for Yasuo after casting his wall is much shorter. slightly limiting his overall defensive power at any moment's notice could allow for more interactive combat and more offensive tools.

if his ult was reworked as such:

**Now has different effects based on how many stacks of gathering storm Yasuo has.

Ultimate cannot be cast without first having at least one stack of gathering storm ready to cast, nor can it be cast off of allied knock-ups.

With one stack of steel tempest ready to cast, Yasuo's next basic attack is enhanced. Steel Tempest can also proc this attack. This puts the ult on a 25-second cooldown. **

I feel that manipulating the areas where Yasuo is weak and ineffective as a champion would allow the balance team to follow up with more reasonable and manageable weaknesses that better suit his theme, as well as leaving the champion in a state that is still fun for the community that enjoys his amazing playstyle. I feel this is a possible way to address Yasuo's skirmishing power so that he does not feel so punished for trading when behind, as well as allowing less complicated combos to be learned and used by those trying to begin learning the champ, and new ways to trade reasonable damage while offering more options than ONLY all in's/feeding heh or hiding under tower.

this way the lane is more interactive and interesting after the first few levels, instead of being either Yasuo got fed or Yasuo died trying to get fed because he will be worthless to the game if he isn't fed, and can now no longer walk up to farm or try to get back in the game

Upon knocking up an enemy champion with the 3rd stack of gathering storm, Yasuo's traditional ult can be cast. Instead of Armor Penetration, Yasuo will be granted bonus damage based on a percentage of his missing health

I think this is a good way to reward the high-risk behavior Yasuo's players usually follow while also making his damage more situational.

while low health outplays feel very rewarding when I'm playing him, the all in from the full health 4/2/0 enemy Yasuo shouldn't feel quite this ridiculous to my lane as soon as his pd is acquired. having such an ability to take over a game should not come so easily. His theme as a lone, wandering swordsman means he should be effective by himself. so naturally, his dueling should be good, but being able to follow up on a knock-up 14 teemo's away grants him a power that doesn't suit his solo playstyle. being able to execute combos based only on his own prowess limits his total threat during the different points in the game, while also providing some tools to allow more opportunity to trade for less experienced players. with this, numbers can be balanced better I do believe.

sorry for such a long read, i can be passionate about how my favorite champs are approached, and im not the only one.

IronwallJackson7 votes

How is Yasuo supposed to take down tanks without his bonus arpen? You do remember that Skirmishers are supposed to be target-agnostic damage threats, right? If you intend for him to actually build a Last Whisper, then you'll see him turning out far squishier than he is now, which is already squishy enough that he's barely worth playing because of how risky he is.

Furthermore, it seems wrong-headed to be giving him bonus damage at low health. Olaf and tryn have tools in their kits that allow them to use those low-health bonuses. In Yasuo's kit, which lacks the same guaranteed safety nets, it would be a chunk of his power budget gone to waste.

More from Gameplay

More by DeadUnborn