The story of how Tahm Kench's damage isn't actually broken

Jbels··6 votes·1,330 views

Alot of people seem to think that Tahm Kench's damage is beyond broken for a tank, that he does way too much despite the fact that he's immobile, has no ult, and only so-so base damages on his abilities (but oh no ult passive so bwoken) So I'm here to clear the air, using the most disgusting of practices imaginable. The most downright foul, disturbing method available to human kind, seen by many as evil, and maybe even satanic.

Math.

Let's get started.

32% max health. This seems to be the main reason why people call the kench a broken sack of lard, but lets look deeper into his actual damage pattern. Let's look at an ADC's max health, say, Ashe. Let's assume Tahm and Ashe are both level 9 because That's when Tahm's W would be at rank 5 assuming you maxed it first. At level 9, Ashe has a base health of 1060.

Tahm has 2 points in Q, so it does 125 damage, and at level 9, he'll have 78 AD. Let's assume it took Tahm a Q and 2 AA's to get the Ashe up to 3 stacks of AAT. That's 125 + 78 + 78 damage, or roughly 281 damage. Now let's add the 339 ( 32% of 1060) damage from his level 5 Devour, and you've got 620 damage total. Now after his immediate burst damage, I don't believe Tahm would have his Q off of cooldown fast enough to get another one out, but let's assume he did, that's another Q plus maybe another two AA's. So that's 620 + 160 + 125 = 905

Now I know what you're thinking. "B-but Jbels-kun, what about his ult passive? Surely t'was the cause for such uproar? Also will you sign my shir-"

Fine, you want to know how much his ult factors into this? I estimate at most the biggest item Tahm could have at level 9 is a Deadman's plate, which is 600 bonus health, so an extra 4% of his bonus health, or 24 + 20 base, so 44 for each one, which is still miniscule, and puts him in the same ballpark as sejuani is in.

But just for the sake of the devil's favorite pastime, let's use more math anyway. 2 Q's = 250 + 88 = 338 + 339 + 44 = 721

Now for the four Auto attacks (78 + 24) x 4= 102 x 4 =408

721+ 408 = 1129

Now let's look at Sejuani, who with 5 points into her Flail, gets up to 160 + 18% max health damage to her target every 7 seconds, 3 if the cooldown begins at cast and not at end of ability, which I'm not currently sure about.

So lets assume sej ran into Ashe in the jungle and immediately pounces onto Ashe. her dash will only have 1 point in it I assume, so that's 80 right there. 18% of 1060 is 191, and assuming Sej can get about 3 AA's in during the duration of her Flail, that's 80 + 80 + 80 + 80, or 320, + 191 + 160, so 320 + 191 + 160, or 671 damage total.

Her ult is an additional 150 damage, and her E is another 90, so 240 altogether. 240 + 671 = 911 damage. But lets say Sej got an extra AA during the slow from E, and another from the stun. That's another 160 damage. 911 + 160 = 1071 damage. That's pretty damn similar to Tahm. But no, Tahm's damage is disgusting. Fuck that immobile bastard who has to fulfill conditions to get all of his damage off.

Now I know alot of you people are going to say to me, "You're a f*cking idiot. Tahm's ult passive will give him so much free damage by the late game that he'll out damage any tank! Use math to explain that you mother f-" But guess who also has a shit ton of damage by that point? The ADC who spent all game farming to get late game items, the mage who's done the same. And guess who's damage gets out faster and more reliably at that point? You guessed it, the mage and ADC. And guess what they have that absolutely shred's Tahm Kench? Last whisper and Void Staff. By that point in the game, Tahm isn't even the main threat anymore, so arguing that his late game damage is stupid is...well, stupid.

Now! I hope this has been eye opening for anyone who thinks that Tahm Kench's damage is far above the curve. I'll gladly do the math on other tanks if you're still skeptical

24 Comments

Nebuul3 votes

I am a Tahm main, and I don't think he needs nerfs.

That said, your numbers are wrong. You didn't even get the base damage on his ult passive right. Please double-check your work because people will look at the bad math and discount your entire point.

THE RlVER KlNG2 votes

TahmKench mains unite, brother.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

I am a Tahm main, and I don't think he needs nerfs.

That said, your numbers are wrong. You didn't even get the base damage on his ult passive right. Please double-check your work because people will look at the bad math and discount your entire point.

Would you care to show me the exact part of my math where the numbers are skewed? That's pretty important to me

JustMyBassCannon1 votes

You actually missed the flat damage bonus on his ult passive. It's 20 + 4/6/8% bonus HP, so he'd actually get 44 bonus damage.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

You actually missed the flat damage bonus on his ult passive. It's 20 + 4/6/8% bonus HP, so he'd actually get 44 bonus damage.

I can't believe I missed that, time to redo the math

Krigjer2 votes

But guess who also has a shit ton of damage by that point? The ADC who spent all game farming to get late game items, the mage who's done the same. And guess who's damage gets out faster and more reliably at that point?

I've seen a Tahm 1v1 a fed Jinx because chompers/zap was down and she could no longer kite him.

Just saying.

Jbels5 votes

{quoted}

But guess who also has a shit ton of damage by that point? The ADC who spent all game farming to get late game items, the mage who's done the same. And guess who's damage gets out faster and more reliably at that point?

I've seen a Tahm 1v1 a fed Jinx because chompers/zap was down and she could no longer kite him.

Just saying.

So Tahm is suddenly overpowered because Jinx positioned like shit, and her team didn't peel?

BakedLotion2 votes

This is one rotation. Tahm gets his damage out within 2-3 secs and only needs to press 2 keys. Its also much safer since his target can't fight back or run due to 70% slow on his Q.

Sejuani needs to consistently be within ~100 range to do damage, and since she has a shitty auto animation along with long cast times, she'll need ATLEAST 5 seconds. Within 5 seconds, tahm can do more empowered auto attacks and maybe hit another q. Not to mention Sejuani needs to use ALL her abilities. While tahm only needs to use 2

tldr you maxed W like an idiot against a squishy ashe, didnt factor in runes and masteries for tahm's ult passive, and didnt include time needed to get off the damage. Tryna swing shit into your favor i suppose.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

This is one rotation. Tahm gets his damage out within 2-3 secs and only needs to press 2 keys. Its also much safer since his target can't fight back or run due to 70% slow on his Q.

Sejuani needs to consistently be within ~100 range to do damage, and since she has a shitty auto animation along with long cast times, she'll need ATLEAST 5 seconds. Within 5 seconds, tahm can do more empowered auto attacks and maybe hit another q. Not to mention Sejuani needs to use ALL her abilities. While tahm only needs to use 2

tldr you maxed W like an idiot against a squishy ashe, didnt factor in runes and masteries for tahm's ult passive, and didnt include time needed to get off the damage. Tryna swing shit into your favor i suppose.

I gave each champion the bare minimum that each situation would allow for, I gave each of them the maximum amount of AA's and spells they could get off. I even went out on a huge stretch with Assuming Tahm's Q would be off cooldown as soon as he spit out a target

Mat7itan1 votes

Now against an adc who does not have much health it would make sense that overall tahm would do less damage than a sejuani. % max health damage becomes more effective the more health a target has. In a similar situation against an enemy champion on the front line you'll see that tahm will do more damage than the sejuani will. Overall sure his damage isn't necessarily "broken", but that being said the amount of damage tahm does is insane when you look at the rest of his kit. Not only does his W do more % heath damage than any other skill in the game, but it also lets you get your back line out of practiacally any bad situation, it lets you reposition the enemy frontline or adc if you get to them. All the while he is unkillable because his E essentially gives him a second health bar.

Jbels2 votes

{quoted}

Now against an adc who does not have much health it would make sense that overall tahm would do less damage than a sejuani. % max health damage becomes more effective the more health a target has. In a similar situation against an enemy champion on the front line you'll see that tahm will do more damage than the sejuani will. Overall sure his damage isn't necessarily "broken", but that being said the amount of damage tahm does is insane when you look at the rest of his kit. Not only does his W do more % heath damage than any other skill in the game, but it also lets you get your back line out of practiacally any bad situation, it lets you reposition the enemy frontline or adc if you get to them. All the while he is unkillable because his E essentially gives him a second health bar.

This thread is strictly about his damage. His W's other side is another monster entirely that Riot needs to tackle. Otherwise, it's not really that much when you consider he only has 2 damage abilities. As for his free second health bar, he has to put himself at alot of risk to get a huge amount of gray health, whereas other tanks have abilities to soak up damage before they even start taking it, like Nautilus, or Sion

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

you just forgot that he was a support

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

you just forgot that he was a support

Support Tahm maxes Q first.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

I find myself maxing Thick Skin more and more recently, especially against poke-heavy teams.

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

I love you

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

I love you

Just doing what any player could have and probably should have done

THE RlVER KlNG1 votes

I'm a Tahm main (115k, I think like 300-400 games) and I'm a bit tired of all these "Tahm is op" threads when he has a lot of counters and is very situationally powerful, like Galio or Azir.

q O y O p1 votes

OP, all i read in that post is:

"Tahm gets full combo off on enemy squishy while building no dmg and has them down to 20%HP which leaves 1 AA/crit from teammate to finish them off."

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

OP, all i read in that post is:

"Tahm gets full combo off on enemy squishy while building no dmg and has them down to 20%HP which leaves 1 AA/crit from teammate to finish them off."

No, this was strictly in a 1v1 situation. It's impossible to say how it would go in a team fight just based on theory

Sneakyy XD1 votes

Sigh, this shit again

Tahm is a support. Sejuani is a jungler. Why are you comparing champions of two different roles? Go compare Tahm's damage to Taric's damage, or Braum's damage, or Alistar's damage and then get back to us.

Jbels1 votes

{quoted}

Sigh, this shit again

Tahm is a support. Sejuani is a jungler. Why are you comparing champions of two different roles? Go compare Tahm's damage to Taric's damage, or Braum's damage, or Alistar's damage and then get back to us.

For those who have been living under a rock, tahm can be played as a jungler, a top laner, OR a support, and was designed to be a top laner even if he has fallen into the support archetype

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

I think the biggest part about this is something no one noticed.

Lvl 9 Tahm can 1-shot lvl 9 Ashe.

His combo did 1069. Sej's did 1071.

And Tahm's combo has 7 times less cooldown than Sej's.

But he's still not that op, I mean, he's powerful for a tank, but I'll compare him to someone better.

Someone once said that Tahm forced tanks to build MR even if they didn't need to, just because of the percentage damage. Well, guess what? Let's compare him to Mundo.

Tahm has damage scaling on his own bonus health, decent bases, and damage scaling on their max health, and CC.

Mundo has built in Tenacity, high bases, damage scaling on their current health, an auto attack enhancement scaling on his own max health, a skill regenning 39.6%/50.4%/60% of his max health at the cost of 20% of his current health as well as movespeed, on a 75 second cooldown.

In terms of damage, Mundo has a much lower cooldown skill that chunks 25% of the targets current health. It also has 1000 range. Tahm has a skill chunking 32% of the target's max health, can only be cast once passive is fully stacked, and has point blank range, with a 10 second cooldown. But it can also be used in coordination with Q for extra range.

Mundo's is probably better against tanks.

Then, the second most complained part of Tahm.

Tahm deals 4%/6%/8% of his bonus health + 20 as magic damage on every auto/skill. No cooldown. Mundo's next basic attack does 5% of his max health as bonus AD. Then, he gains 1% of his max health as AD for every 1% of missing health. Minimum for the second part is 40/55/70/85/100 AD.

Mundo's is generally stronger all game. He also does mixed damage, meaning life is most effective, but he does percentage health damage, so pure Armor is the best (logically).

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