With Morde's incredibly high ban rate in worlds

Jbels·Oct 2, 2015·155 votes·6,362 views

I hope Riot will finally realize that the design choice they decided to go with was a poor one

182 Comments

Malicious MetalOct 2, 201527 votes

He would be less problematic if they kept him as a solo laner. :9

Dextix LTOct 2, 201513 votes

But "I cant see mordekaiser as a healthy solo lane champion" CertainlyT 2015, the creator of Darius Thresh Yasuo Kalista

JbelsOct 2, 20156 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qEZeG52K,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-10-02T19:13:35.671+0000)

But "I cant see mordekaiser as a healthy solo lane champion" CertainlyT 2015, the creator of

I remember when he said that. I went OFF on his ass, and I don't go off on people very much

PartholonianOct 2, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qEZeG52K,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-02T15:50:56.853+0000)

He would be less problematic if they kept him as a solo laner. :9

No, he wouldn't. CertainlyT was right about that part. In a solo lane one of two things happens: Morde doesn't dare get near his opponent because he has no escapes, or his opponent doesn't dare get near Morde because Morde has too much damage and/or tankiness. Both of those result in the player who is already behind being zoned away from farm and falling even further behind. (Melee vs. melee top lanes can have the same problem, but most melee tops have at least some mobility.)

In a duo lane the other champions involved have kits that allow someone to have a chance to outplay.

AtheosisXOct 2, 201522 votes

CertainlyT fucked up Morde big time and everyone knows it. Morde's never going to be healthy with this rework, just like everything CertainlyT designs.

Only Play DariusOct 2, 20153 votes

Zyra Zed not really problematic if you ask me

Thresh despite insane pickrate, he has low banrate so people don't seem to hate him that much

Kalista Darius Yasuo fucking hate them though, core parts of their kit are nothing short of repulsive and the corresponding mechanics shouldn't exist in the game

AtheosisXOct 2, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qEZeG52K,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2015-10-02T20:19:07.203+0000)

not really problematic if you ask me

despite insane pickrate, he has low banrate so people don't seem to hate him that much

fucking hate them though, core parts of their kit are nothing short of repulsive and the corresponding mechanics shouldn't exist in the game

Zyra was his first champ as I recall and so he didn't go crazy with her.

Zed has experienced many periods of being problematic and bears all the hallmarks of CertainlyT's design philosophy of making champs that are only fun for the person playing them. Just because he's been nerfed into a sub-par state over time doesn't change this.

Chromatic EagleOct 2, 20155 votes

I thought he didn't make Zed?

VerandureOct 3, 20152 votes

Zyra was horrifying to fight against, on release.

Voluug13Oct 3, 20154 votes

Zyra was heavy nerfed because she was fucing oppresive in both midlane and botlane.

Zed is a mess of being designed to be The Best Assassin Good In Every Situation And Every Compositon™. Which is the problem with CertainlyT design in general.

Packun FlowerOct 3, 20154 votes

{quoted}

CertainlyT fucked up

OF course he did. its CertainlyT. the one Rioteer who has no idea what the word balance means. Look at all the shit he has caused. Kallista, yasuo, Zyra, now this. This man should not be allowed near the champion design/rework team ever! Yet he continues to push out these unbalanced ideas over and over and look at the state of chaos he's thrown the game into because of it.

CertainlyToxic is THE most hated rioteer for this reason and in all honesty he should be fired. I've been preaching this since the release of Yasuo.

Dextix LTOct 2, 201518 votes

Riot and CertainlyT admitting their mistakes?

http://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia2.giga.de%2F2014%2F11%2FSerious.gif&key=a45e967db0914c7fb472fd4381e6c85b&width=425

xFrostKnightxOct 2, 201516 votes

???: Hey there buddy, looks like you're going through what I once went through. Mordekaiser : Who's there? ???: The previous perma-ban champion before my rework. : ...Kassadin? : Yup. I feel bad for you, I really do. : I-I... I just want to see some play in worlds... I feel... Rejected... {{Champion:82}} : Their going to Nerf me into the ground aren't they... The second worlds end... : Mate, common. Look on the bright side! Just like me, you'll become a Meme. I may be gone and forgotten, but my final performance backdooring will be remembered forever. Mordekaiser : Yeah, I suppose... Kassadin : They will slip and forget to ban you for a single game, that's when you strike. Instead of whining you're going to go out there and work hard at it, I want to see you 1v5 their team! I want you to destroy them! I want you to one shot their Adc! DO YOU HEAR ME?!!!! Mordekaiser : AHHHH!!!! IM GOING TO DESTROY THEM WHEN THEY FORGET TO BAN ME, I WILL STRIKE FEAR AND TERROR INTO THEIR HEARTS!!! UNLEASH THE SOLOKAISER, I'LL 1v9 YOU ALL WITHOUT BREAKING A SWEAT!

SSJTribeOct 3, 20153 votes

Except they even played Kass in worlds

Earl EulrichOct 2, 201514 votes

the really sad thing about is that not even SKT dares to hand over Morde to the worst team of the tournament as it seems not worth the risk...just bullshit binary design at it´s best.

JbelsOct 2, 20159 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qEZeG52K,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-10-02T17:17:48.573+0000)

the really sad thing about is that not even SKT dares to hand over Morde to the worst team of the tournament as it seems not worth the risk...just bullshit binary design at it´s best.

Exactly this. You know you've fucked up when this is happening

OrangesilkOct 2, 20157 votes

Olaf mid seems like a reasonable risk, but giving them Morde?, pffft.

XemeronOct 2, 20157 votes

What? I always thought giving a Botlaner a free Dragon pet at level 6 would be a great idea...

JbelsOct 2, 201514 votes

{quoted}

What? I always thought giving a Botlaner a free Dragon pet at level 6 would be a great idea...

It's a fine idea in theory, but it ends up just being a floating ball of damage that flies around just being annoying. There's no reason to focus it down because it'll run out of time before you can kill it, meaning you just wasted a bunch of cooldowns and mana on it for nothing, and there's no reward for killing it anyway. Pair that with the fact that you can't just ignore it, and you've hit No Counterplay Alley. Like I said, on paper it sounded good. In actual practice, it's a toxic mechanic.

luckmalloryOct 2, 20156 votes

They turned all of the juggernauts into team oriented champions instead of Solo Q Rapers. Overall it has been successful. Him being permabanned just means the rework was good but his numbers are off.

JbelsOct 2, 201511 votes

{quoted}

They turned all of the juggernauts into team oriented champions instead of Solo Q Rapers. Overall it has been successful. Him being permabanned just means the rework was good but his numbers are off.

Numbers is all Morde has. If and when they nerf them, what's going to be his appeal? He's not balls OP anymore so why take him?

luckmalloryOct 2, 20152 votes

Morde is balls op tho...

JbelsOct 2, 20159 votes

{quoted}

Morde is balls op tho...

That doesn't mean he will be after the nerfs. Morde will see any play at all today because he is recognized as oppressive and impossible to deal with when he gets going. How long before he's nerfed into a "Healthy spot" and then you never see him again? It's impossible to balance morde into a healthy spot right now because they are trying to balance him around bottom lane. Solo Lane morde should have been the direction they went with for that exact reason

luckmalloryOct 2, 20152 votes

My suggestion was they gave him insane damage in the rest of his kit but let him keep his broken Ult. They should just rework his ult or give him a brand new one

JbelsOct 2, 201510 votes

{quoted}

My suggestion was they gave him insane damage in the rest of his kit but let him keep his broken Ult. They should just rework his ult or give him a brand new one

But that still won't solve the issue of his basic abilities being boring, uninspired, and binary. The rework was a massive failure, and it should have been delayed until a sion level rework could be undertaken.

luckmalloryOct 2, 20156 votes

That is completely your opinion

JbelsOct 2, 20158 votes

{quoted}

That is completely your opinion

It's fact. What does Q do? Damage? Oh ok. What does W do? Oh, more damage? Oh...ok? What does E do? ....Damage...k... His 3 abilities together might as well be one giant ability of damage with a tiny bit of sustain thrown in

luckmalloryOct 2, 20155 votes

Not every champion needs a super versatile kit. having a straight forward kit is fine.

Yi and xin are great examples.

JbelsOct 2, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Not every champion needs a super versatile kit. having a straight forward kit is fine.

Yi and xin are great examples.

Except both are mobile as hell when compared to Morde, and their basic kits have things besides damage thrown into them, Xin gets a dash and a knock up, as well as attack speed. Yi gets an invulnerability period / Dash, and a channel that lets him survive damage in the middle of a teamfight

luckmalloryOct 2, 20154 votes

You are using a mix of a slippery slope and strawman argument here. You are saying x champion (morde) isn't as well designed as y champion (Yi, Xin) because they have mobility and then you just go on to state things in their kit as if that is an argument.

If you want to argue like that. Morde can take the biggest hyper carry on the other team and make them shit on their own team. If that isn't utility idk what is.

He can also get a ghost of dragon which is almost an automatic tower, so more utility.

Simply naming what a champion has in their kit doesn't make them any better.

Anyone can simply name the strengths of a champion without listing weaknesses

JbelsOct 2, 20157 votes

{quoted}

You are using a mix of a slippery slope and strawman argument here. You are saying x champion (morde) isn't as well designed as y champion (Yi, Xin) because they have mobility and then you just go on to state things in their kit as if that is an argument.

If you want to argue like that. Morde can take the biggest hyper carry on the other team and make them shit on their own team. If that isn't utility idk what is.

He can also get a ghost of dragon which is almost an automatic tower, so more utility.

Simply naming what a champion has in their kit doesn't make them any better.

Anyone can simply name the strengths of a champion without listing weaknesses

You're going off topic. We were talking about Basic kits. Yi and Xin have different mechanics in their kits that make them interesting. Morde has a tiny speed boost, a bit of sustain, an then nothing but damage. As for his ult, there's a reason why he needed a complete rework. Adding the toxic dragon mechanic didn't make the ability any more healthy

luckmalloryOct 2, 20153 votes

I think this is just a problem you have with his kit being boring. I have never gotten dragon and had it whoop ass for me or killed their carry and made them shit on their own team and been like "damn this is so boring"

JbelsOct 2, 20157 votes

{quoted}

I think this is just a problem you have with his kit being boring. I have never gotten dragon and had it whoop ass for me or killed their carry and made them shit on their own team and been like "damn this is so boring"

Then you must have just picked up Morde, because in respect to his ult, it's doing the exact same thing it did before plus dragon

JbelsOct 2, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I have played morde since season 2. The dragon is a gigantic addition

Then you should already understand why the rework is a failure of balance

JbelsOct 2, 20159 votes

{quoted}

Balance =/= Failure or Success

You can always tweak numbers into balance.

For example vayne is insanely Over powered right now, she has just as binary a kit as morde does. right click to win as most ADC's do. It isn't her kit that is the problem, it is her numbers.

for morde, it isn't his rework, it is the numbers

But that's the PROBLEM. Morde is ALL numbers! Numbers are the only thing Mordekaiser brings to a team. When you nerf Morde's numbers, you nerf the entire reason you even pick him. It's just not possible to find a healthy spot for Morde as long as he's designed like this

killd0zerOct 2, 20155 votes

xin has a terrible kit for that reason exactly.

He's incredibly binary and either wins effortlessly or loses because there wasn't a better way to play him. His most effective combo is literally dashing then pressing QWR at the same time.

luckmalloryOct 2, 20151 votes

Honestly if I was Riot i would keep acting the way they do.

I would hate their community. Its so fucking bad because of reasons like this.

"X champion is so binary"

Lets ignore the fact he was designed in season 1 compared to say azir who was designed season 4. People like you cry to Riot because they can't release new champions and completely fix every champion at the same time. Get over it

Some champions have more versatile kits, it will always be that way. Dont like it? don't play

JbelsOct 2, 20157 votes

{quoted}

Honestly if I was Riot i would keep acting the way they do.

I would hate their community. Its so fucking bad because of reasons like this.

"X champion is so binary"

Lets ignore the fact he was designed in season 1 compared to say azir who was designed season 4. People like you cry to Riot because they can't release new champions and completely fix every champion at the same time. Get over it

Some champions have more versatile kits, it will always be that way. Dont like it? don't play

No, the community is only bad when it asks things of Riot that are unfair, or unreasonable. But then Riot did something unfair and unreasonable by pushing this Morde rework. Unfair to the Mordekaiser mains who now won't even touch him in the state he is, and unreasonable how it has so much threat that it has a 100% ban rate in worlds so far

Bouncemaster ZacOct 2, 201552 votes

{quoted}

They turned all of the juggernauts into team oriented champions instead of Solo Q Rapers. Overall it has been successful. Him being permabanned just means the rework was good but his numbers are off.

That's... the exact opposite of what they did. Every single Juggernaut absolutely dominates in solo.

JbelsOct 2, 20157 votes

{quoted}

That's... the exact opposite of what they did. Every single Juggernaut absolutely dominates in solo.

Yeeeeeah, I don't know about you, but I don't see Garen or Darius or League's favorite pokemon needing the help of an ally to dunk, spin on, or suupress-pull people

luckmalloryOct 2, 20152 votes

Morde does not dominate Solo. also that is due to the sheer fact that it takes a long time and plenty of testing to balance them out. They over tuned them and are in the process of tuning them down to where they wanted them.

Bouncemaster ZacOct 2, 201525 votes

{quoted}

Morde does not dominate Solo. also that is due to the sheer fact that it takes a long time and plenty of testing to balance them out. They over tuned them and are in the process of tuning them down to where they wanted them.

Mord does dominate solo. He had a near-70% winrate for a month. Also, if it takes so much testing to get them straightened out, they should do that testing before putting them on Live. That's the whole reason the PBE exists, for player testing. But they never listen to PBE player feedback and just ship out busted Champions.

TehNACHOOct 2, 201514 votes

PBE exists for bug checks really.

Actually, due to the absolute catastrophe that was listening to the PBE players' balance opinions on Garen and Skarner in particular, I wouldn't be surprised if Riot members would refrain from listening to PBE players on balance in the future.

Remlap1223Oct 2, 20155 votes

PBE is for seeing new shit in advance. Riot doesn't give a shit how buggy a champion is released as Azir

TehNACHOOct 2, 20154 votes

Except...

If you actually kept track of the PBE, the majority of those bugs popped up after Azir was moved to live. PBE testers apparently either didn't face most of the bugs afflicting Azir's release or fixed entirely different bugs (remember the Yorick bug?).

JbelsOct 2, 201515 votes

{quoted}

Except...

If you actually kept track of the PBE, the majority of those bugs popped up after Azir was moved to live. PBE testers apparently either didn't face most of the bugs afflicting Azir's release or fixed entirely different bugs (remember the Yorick bug?).

Azir was rushed all to hell. We told them repeatedly not to ship it to live, and they still went ahead

kJsOct 2, 20152 votes

Were you one of the PBE testers?

Riot did say that they announced Azir too early in his development. The expectation of the player base of a new champion had to be met so he had to be released earlier that he should have. The non-PBE players would get impatient and criticize Riot for being slow, not doing their work or whatever. Deadlines man.

ForeverLaxxOct 2, 20155 votes

This only flies if Ao Shin wasn't the captain of that very same vessel. Unfortunately, he is. Ao Shin was announced as an upcoming champion for what seems like centuries ago in Riot-Time and that's the only time we've seen mention of him.

Revealing a champion too early is a problem, but it's not going to accelerate the design process of that champion. All this really shows is that Azir wasn't tested properly or the feedback wasn't be considered.