Alright I'm sick of this.

Jbels··118 votes·22,046 views

For those people who seem to be confused about this, let me just clarify. THESE SionMalphite Rammus Maokai Alistar NautilusSejuani Zac Ornn Gragas Amumu Braum are tanks.

These are champions who most often build all defensive items and will win a game based off of CC and teamfight playmaking. These are indisputably the tanks of the game. When somebody refers to tanks, THESE are the champions that are being talked about/should be being talked about.

THESE DrMundo Darius Hecarim Illaoi Red Kayn Volibear Trundle Warwick Udyr Yorick XinZhao Kled Nasus Vi are NOT tanks. These are champions who are taken for their ability to do damage by having one or two damage items in their build, while getting tanky throughout the game through defensive purchases and/or built in sustain. These champions are meant to be tankier while still doing damage because they are meant to be threats to priority targets. Most of them give up mobility and heavy CC in order to have that damage. I repeat, these ARE NOT TANKS.

Have a nice day.

Edit: Well, it's been a while and this thread is still getting replies, which I'm a bit surprised about. I notice that the like to dislike ratio on the thread is pretty lopsided towards people who agree with me, but about a third of you don't, which is fine. That is your right as an individual.

I want it known that I made this thread because of an increasing frustration with the amount of threads on the boards that cry out for tank nerfs. As a tank main, I go into these threads ready to debate my stand on the current state of tanks, only to find out the OP was actually referring to a champion like Darius or Nasus, or even the odd Garen. I know there are alot of you that see these champions as tanks because of their ability to soak so much damage, but you gotta understand. You can't look at Garen and Darius under the same balance lens as champions like Maokai or Ornn.

My biggest fear is that all champions who build more defensive items than offense items will be homogenized into the same group by popular opinion, and will be balanced around the same standards as a result. THAT'S why I made this thread

270 Comments

Míellá18 votes

How is Mundo not a tank? He builds full tank. His kit is ment to be tanky. He ain't a bruiser and he ain't no juggernaut. What else is he supposed to be? A mage? He deals ap dmg, i mean.

Jbels37 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legend Alpha ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atEPp6uN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-05-12T16:29:32.958+0000)

How is Mundo not a tank? He builds full tank. His kit is ment to be tanky. He ain't a bruiser and he ain't no juggernaut. What else is he supposed to be? A mage? He deals ap dmg, i mean.

As I have said before, you're going to have to divorce yourself from the notion that being hard to kill makes you a tank. If that were the case, Darius would also be a tank, and he is not.

Edit: I know that was confusing the way I worded it, it was a mistake. I edited the reply to reflect what I was actually saying

MohawkBird6 votes

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Jbels4 votes

{quoted}

Why should he have to divorce himself from that? He can surely have his own definition on what constitutes a tank. Personally, tanks to me are generally any champion that builds a majority of their build resistance/HP. Any difference in classification is simply a subset of what it means to be a tank. A juggernaut is a type of tank that sacrifices mobility and CC for high damage. Bruisers are in between, where they sacrifice a bit of tankiness and CC for some damage. Then you have tanks that sacrifice damage for a gain in CC and more tankiness. They are all still tanks.

Like someone else said in this thread, you can have a tank Veigar. You can have a tank Akali (much like how previously, tank Akali was referred to as tank Akali). As long as it qualifies that said champion manages to act as a meat shield and be a durable force on your team, they are a tank. Definitions are not as strict as everyone seems to be implying in this thread. I will call someone like Illaoi a juggernaut, as it increases specificity, but I do not believe I am wrong if I refer to Illaoi as a form of a tank, too.

Yes, you can build tank items on Veigar and akali. But at the end of the day, they aren't tanks. Akali is an assassin and Veigar is a burst mage. The only difference is that they have sacrificed raw damage for building defensive items in order to last longer.

MohawkBird4 votes

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Z3Sleeper3 votes

No that's fine, we all call people who are impossible to kill tanks. Just like we call tanky fighters bruisers even though there are 5 other actually Riot correct definitions.

He's talking about the Riot definition of a tank, which Akali can never be.

MohawkBird1 votes

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Z3Sleeper2 votes

She can transition to skirmisher, which is essentially what she is (she just so happens to have enough burst to assassinate, thus, assassin).

Her kit basically screams skirmisher (in-fight heal, 8 sec invis zone for popping in and out, targeted long range dash). Building tanky definitely solidifies her into this role.

Handy Sandy 18 votes

these posts are dumb, both of them take pretty much the same amount of time to kill. If im hitting you and it takes 10+ seconds to kill you then you are a tank, I don't care who you are. Are you a Veigar and buying 6 warmogs? You're a tank. Are you a spirit visage gunblade Cass? I never played against this so idk how much sustain that has but You're a tank.

Of course people like Vi or Xin aren't tanks, but if you're telling me mundo, voli, nasus, and Illaoi are easier to kill than a maokai/sion just no.

if you are hard to kill because of your hp regen, health, or resistances = you are a tank. I don't know why people feel the need to divide champions under like 19 different labels.

Jbels11 votes

{quoted}

these posts are dumb, both of them take pretty much the same amount of time to kill. If im hitting you and it takes 10+ seconds to kill you then you are a tank, I don't care who you are. Are you a Veigar and buying 6 warmogs? You're a tank. Are you a spirit visage gunblade Cass? I never played against this so idk how much sustain that has but You're a tank.

Of course people like Vi or Xin aren't tanks, but if you're telling me mundo, voli, nasus, and Illaoi are easier to kill than a maokai/sion just no.

if you are hard to kill because of your hp regen, health, or resistances = you are a tank. I don't know why people feel the need to divide champions under like 19 different labels.

No, this is fundamentally wrong.Both groups of champions, while durable in their own right, perform different roles on a team. If all champions that were hard to kill were tanks, you would have to balance the game around the entire group of champions that are durable. That would make absolutely no sense. You wouldn't nerf black cleaver because tanks are strong, and you wouldn't nerf Sunfire Cape because champions like Darius, Illaoi, or Mordekaiser are strong

Rathar Dashing13 votes

If all champions that were hard to kill were tanks, you would have to balance the game around the entire group of champions that are durable. That would make absolutely no sense.

Or you know, the word "tanky" could just refer to someone who's hard to kill. That could be an option.

Melledoneus16 votes

There is a fundamental difference between being tanky and being a tank.

At least, last time I checked.

MohawkBird3 votes

[deleted]

Jbels9 votes

{quoted}

Not fundamental. A purely subjective, definitional difference.

I mean, subjective in the same way that a dog and a cat being different is subjective. I mean, they both walk on 4 legs, are mammals, and are covered in fur, so they're the same exact thing, right?

MohawkBird1 votes

[deleted]

Jbels7 votes

{quoted}

Completely different. I cannot just change definitions of language, however, I can damn well decide what I consider a tank to be in a videogame.

Alright then since all champions who build defensive items are tanks

Brand Ziggs Velkoz TwistedFate Lissandra Katarina Leblanc Syndra Ekko Kassadin Orianna Malzahar

All of these champions without exception are AP assassins. They all build the same stats, so they're all exactly the same champion. In fact, every champion that does a lot of damage is an assassin now. They all deal a lot of damage, so they're all assassins to me.

MohawkBird3 votes

[deleted]

Jbels5 votes

{quoted}

Awesome, you told me what you consider to be an assassin. Quite a vague definition definition for an assassin though, so you would probably have trouble being understood in certain arguments. It might be smart to come up with some subsets of what it means to be an assassin.

Since an assassin, in this very exaggerated and hypothetical scenario, is someone who does a lot of damage, let's try to specify and create subsets of damage.

Maybe champions who deal it really fast and are slippery, we can call the "strictly assassins."

Maybe the ones that deal it over a sustained period of time we can call "marksman, skirmishers, or duelists."

Maybe ones who deal damage from a long range we can call "artillery."

Maybe ones who deal damage in the form relying heavily on abilities we can call "mages and casters."

Notice how some of these are not exclusive. You can be an artillery mage or an artillery caster in this very hypothetical scenario. You can also be a hybrid between a skirmisher and a mage in this scenario, according to the given criteria and definitions.

Pfft, fuck that. They all do damage. Why would we need classifications to separate them into when we can just call all champions that do damage "Damage dealers"?

MohawkBird1 votes

I'll let you answer that one yourself, considering it's in the very post which you replied too.

Z3Sleeper5 votes

So if you get that different roles serve different purposes regardless of their builds, what's your new definition of a tank?

MohawkBird4 votes

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Chembaron Yamada6 votes

The point is: to be able to properly communicate here in the boards, we have to agree on the same language and this includes sharing definitions.

That's partly the reason why we have that subclass list from Riot, it gives a shared language to communicate the topics related to the game.

In that definition given by Riot, Juggernauts and Divers are not tanks, the class they are subclasses from is called Fighters. Just like the subclasses of Tanks are Warden and Vanguard. Everything that isn't one of these 2 things is not a tank by definition.


Yes, you can claim that Juggernauts are tanks for you. In that moment however, you create your very own version of language and purposely use definitions contradicting the information we got handed by Riot. Meaning if you don't state your own definition of a tank every single time you engage in a discussion here in the boards, you will create confusion and miscommunication on purpose.

It's like me joining a discussion about apples, but in reality I am talking about oranges. That's how language works, I can define an orange as being an apple if I want to. But that means I have to communicate this with the other people around me, because that mindset is not commonly shared and will lead to confusion if I don't tell people that I am defining it differently than the common English language.

DODGEORLOSE14 votes

Mundo isn't a tank? uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Jbels30 votes

{quoted}

Mundo isn't a tank? uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

No, believe it or not, he ISN'T. Being a tank is not defined by building all defensive items. It is defined by your role in the game. A tank's role is to peel for carries and apply CC where needed/ engage fights / die to make sure nobody else has to. Mundo's job is to run into the enemy backline and fuck with them by being not worth damaging through his sheer healing and annoying everyone with his % health cleavers.

Thilmer4 votes

{quoted}

No, believe it or not, he ISN'T. Being a tank is not defined by building all defensive items. It is defined by your role in the game. A tank's role is to peel for carries and apply CC where needed/ engage fights / die to make sure nobody else has to. Mundo's job is to run into the enemy backline and fuck with them by being not worth damaging through his sheer healing and annoying everyone with his % health cleavers.

Mundo is clearly a juggernaut: high resistance and high damage, but no mobility, gap closers or good CC.

Morticianjohn2 votes

The fact of the matter is Riot's definition of a tank (has CC/disruption or whatever) doesn't totally match with other video games. Mundo fits the exact description of a tank from other video games. I've played quite a few video games where the tank is some sort of high health character who is able to draw aggression from the enemy team. This is exactly what mundo does, he dives in hoping to keep the carries of the enemy team away from his carries. He has enough health to soak up damage in place of his team mates.

Riot can classify a tank however they want, it's their game. Just don't expect every player to accept their definition considering the wide spread use of it in the gaming community.

Christopher RPh12 votes

What about Lulu? I always get her confused between a brawler and a tank.

Jbels14 votes

[{quoted}](name=Christopher RPh,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atEPp6uN,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-12T16:37:03.216+0000)

What about Lulu? I always get her confused between a brawler and a tank.

I know right? And when are they going to clarify that Janna is actually an adc?

Christopher RPh2 votes

{quoted}

I know right? And when are they going to clarify that Janna is actually an adc?

No no, clearly you're delusional. Janna is definitely a red mage.

Doozku1 votes

You high? Janna's clearly a rush down character, though some people like to play her as a zoner.

Rathar Dashing2 votes

What are you talking about? Everyone knows she's a basically the AP Hecarim, a diver jungler.

Risen297 votes

The responses to this thread are great demonstrations of ignorance, highlighting the need for the OP to post this thread.

What is annoying is to see stupid people arguing against what is plainly true.

There's no point in trying to argue about what you think a "tank" should mean when Riot has already defined what a "tank" means to them for the purposes of their classification.

From the wiki, which does a good job outlining Riot's definition of the various classes:


Tanks are tough melee champions who sacrifice damage in exchange for powerful crowd control. While able to engage enemies in combat, a tank's purpose isn't usually to kill opponents; rather,** tanks excel at disrupting enemies and diverting focus to themselves, allowing them to lock down specific targets (or several targets at once), as well as remove (or peel) threats from their allies.**

In addition to strong base defenses, tanks generally have a means of amplifying their tankiness even further with their abilities, and tend to fully invest in defensive items to maximize their resilience. However,** tanks lack the tools to truly succeed in single combat, and their influence is limited by their low overall mobility,** preventing them from constantly staying on top of their targets.

As tanks can handle burst damage very well, they tend to succeed against assassins and most mages, but their vulnerability to continuous damage puts them at a disadvantage against fighters and marksmen. Subcategories of Tanks are vanguards, and wardens.


Vanguards are offensive tanks. Vanguards lead the charge for their team and are specialize at getting action started. Their explosive team fight initiation seeks to catch enemies out of position while allowing allies to follow-up to devastating effect.


Wardens are defensive tanks. Wardens stand steadfast, seeking to hold the line by** persistently locking down any on-comers **who try to pass them. Wardens keep their allies out of harm’s way and allow them to safely deal with enemies caught in the fray.


Fighters (also known as Bruisers) are a diverse group of short-ranged combatants **who excel at both dealing and surviving damage. **With easy access to heavy, continuous damage (or DPS) and a host of innate defenses, fighters thrive in extended fights as they seek out enemies to take down, but their limited range puts them at constant risk of being kept at bay (or kited) by their opponents via crowd control, range and mobility.

Fighters tend to have an advantage against assassins, whose burst tends to fall short of killing them when unaided, as well as tanks, whose inferior damage allows fighters to eventually defeat them in duels, but often struggle against mages and marksmen, whose superior reach allows them to kite approaching fighters. Sub-classes of the Fighters are juggernauts, and divers.


Juggernauts are melee titans** who relentlessly march down the opposition **and devastate those foolish enough to get within their grasp. They are the only subclass who excel at both dealing and taking significant amounts of damage, but in turn they have a tough time closing in on targets due to their **low range and extremely limited mobility. **


Divers are the more mobile portion of the Fighter class. Divers excel at singling out high-priority targets to blitz toward, immediately forcing those targets (and their teammates) to deal with the diver’s presence. Divers are not as durable as the tanks or juggernauts of the world, but Divers can take their fair share of punishment while bringing enough damage to be a real kill threat if left unchecked.


Read and understand these definitions, and then you will understand why Shen, Rammus, and Malphite are Tanks - but Mundo, Darius, and Nasus are Juggernauts. And why Vi, Hecarim, and Warwick don't even qualify as Juggernauts but as Divers.

You'd have to be pretty ignorant to confuse a diver with a tank. But it's understandable why some might confuse a juggernaut with a tank. The only thing a juggernaut and a tank have in common is they both take a lot of damage before dying.

The differences between a Juggernaut and a Tank are very significant: -Juggernauts have more damage but lack mobility and CC so they are kited the easiest. -Juggernauts have various forms of sustain but rarely have abilities that amplify their raw defensive stats the way tanks do, so they generally aren't able to absorb as much damage as a tank. -Juggernauts generally don't have the tools for initiating a teamfight, setting up picks, or enabling their teammates to follow up. They lack both mobility and CC which are key components of doing that effectively. And Juggernauts definitely are not good at peeling for their teammates. But they can kill faster in a teamfight and do better at split pushing or solo fight scenarios.

When you say you need a tank for your team, what you are really saying is you need someone who can not just be a meatshield but also can initiate for the team and protect the weaker members from getting dived on. A juggernaut can't do that. So don't pick them if your team needs a genuine tank. There is more to being a genuine tank than just being able to absorb more damage than the average champion.

Jerry SeinfeId5 votes

Graggy isn't a tank lol. He builds AP all the time

BeatzBoyFTW7 votes

This isn't Season 3.

Pika Fox4 votes

Malph isnt a tank either. The community just plays him like one and focus too much on his R. Theres a reason dual as boots malph was a strong 1v1 pick back in the day.

Jbels14 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atEPp6uN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-12T16:15:43.317+0000)

Malph isnt a tank either. The community just plays him like one and focus too much on his R. Theres a reason dual as boots malph was a strong 1v1 pick back in the day.

Okay then I guess Zac isn't a tank because people built him full AP back when he had better damage, right? Why does a build/playstyle that was strong in the past have any bearing on the current staple playstyle of today?

Pika Fox4 votes

Malph still has one of the highest bruiser stats and abilities in the game, boasting high base as and damage as well as one of the highest as/damage per level, and all of his non ult abilities reinforce his bruiser based kit, and his ult is too long of a single use CD to make him a tank on its own.

Also of note, he has some of the best stats for triforce, especially after his recent buff.

Jbels8 votes

Riot refers to Malphite as a Vanguard, or an "offensive tank". I'll admit his kit's design is a bit wonky for a tank's, but if people are building him like a tank and playing him like one, then I don't believe it's an incorrect classification

Pika Fox2 votes

Riots well known for classifying champions poorly, and part of it is intentional since a lot of their suggestions are aimed towards inexperienced/newer players first.

Jbels6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atEPp6uN,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-12T16:46:43.388+0000)

Riots well known for classifying champions poorly, and part of it is intentional since a lot of their suggestions are aimed towards inexperienced/newer players first.

I disagree. Riot's champion classifications for champions have been for the most part consistent. The only champions that anyone are ever confused on are the cmapions like Fiddlesticks and Cho'gath. Cho'gath has the CC and natural bulk of a decent tank, but then also has a crap ton of damage to go with it. His classification isn't anywhere near as clear cut as Malphite's

DuskDaUmbreon2 votes

Doesn't Malphite also have a craption of damage to go with it?

I agree with your point, but Malphite is fairly close to the same one-shot potential as Cho'gath.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

Malph only does a lot of damage with his passive up and if he builds trinity. Both are currently optimal right now, but that is still 7k gold in and relies on your team not hard feeding before then. Also, even then it usually still takes 3-4 W autos to kill a carry after R+E.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

Their definitions regard the most popular version of the champion. Off-builds exist and can skew a champion's identity. However, some champions simply lack the kit to transition into certain identities.

Tanky fighters that lack disruption CC will never be tanks. Divers that lack disengage will never be Skirmishers. Juggernauts will never be Divers (kinda with Flash, but that's once every 5 mins).

Critmaster Garen33 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atEPp6uN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-12T16:15:43.317+0000)

Malph isnt a tank either. The community just plays him like one and focus too much on his R. Theres a reason dual as boots malph was a strong 1v1 pick back in the day.

riot didnt intend for malphite to be a tank originally. they wanted him to be an ap bruiser.

the only problem is, that they gave him tank defensive scaling, tank initiation, and tank disruption with the aoe attack speed slow on his e.

if you give a champion every single trait of a tank, then to no ones surprise, hes going to be a tank and everyone is going to play him as such.

over time theyve aknowledged this, and theyve grouped him in with the other vanguards.

so yea, malphite is a tank.

Pika Fox3 votes

They didnt really give him tank defensive scaling. He gets bonus armor on W iirc, which is similar to garen types, and his passive isnt good for a tank, as it emphasizes short trades.

And his E is, again, more similar to bruiser abilities, as tanks dont really have AS slows.

Critmaster Garen14 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atEPp6uN,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-05-12T16:48:30.040+0000)

They didnt really give him tank defensive scaling. He gets bonus armor on W iirc, which is similar to garen types, and his passive isnt good for a tank, as it emphasizes short trades.

like i said. its not just the tank stat scaling. thats the entire point of the op.

its the combination of defensive scaling, teamfight initiation and disruption that defines vanguards. malphite has all of those traits.

Pika Fox2 votes

Except he really doesnt. He lacks in fight disruption. At most he has a fairly weak slow (a lot of its power is the movespeed bonus). AS reduction isnt disruption, and his ult is a single use fairly small aoe quick knockup. He doesnt do a vanguards job after he presses R. His kit is much more akin to something like a bruiser than a tank. His literal only tank trait is "he presses R".

Auz the Ripper11 votes

You underestimate the power of an AS slow, especially one as powerful as malphite has. Slowing the attack speed of any AA based champion by 50% basically means you have halved their damage. Halving an ADC's damage is hella disruptive

Pika Fox2 votes

Thats.... Not what disruption is. Disruption is CC, either high end soft or all hard CC. His ult is disruptive, his Q and E are not (Q is single target and half its power is put into malph himself)

Jbels12 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=atEPp6uN,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-12T18:58:02.714+0000)

Thats.... Not what disruption is. Disruption is CC, either high end soft or all hard CC. His ult is disruptive, his Q and E are not (Q is single target and half its power is put into malph himself)

Disruption is anything that hinders your ability to do something. Malphite's E hinders people from doing auto attack damage by significantly reducing their rate of fire. His Q slows you enough to make it significantly harder to escape.

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