Is anyone else sick of seeing Zed every game? Because I certainly am

Jbels·Jan 1, 2016·125 votes·6,028 views

Go ahead! Downvote me! I don't care. I'm sick of him. #firstsaltthread #fuckyouthunderlord

137 Comments

NekusenJan 2, 201628 votes

i only see Zed in half my games, the other half i see Yasuo

YumaS2AstralJan 2, 201613 votes

{quoted}

i only see in half my games, the other half i see

Vayne LeeSin Thresh Riven

KaisadiIIaJan 2, 20165 votes

People do not play Riven these days. She's really underpowered right now.

YumaS2AstralJan 2, 20169 votes

{quoted}

People do not play Riven these days. She's really underpowered right now.

[zombie-brand-clap]

DrNovaJan 2, 201616 votes

So we are back to bitching about zed now. The circle is complete. Boards are fuckin whiners.

Ariel the CruelJan 2, 20169 votes

I think we skipped Nidalee [this rotation].

KaisadiIIaJan 2, 20164 votes

The legendary cycle of mid-bitching:

Yasuo -> Zed -> Syndra Orianna Ziggs -> Leblanc -> Nidalee -> Ahri

At least it's better than the cycle of jungle-bitching:

LeeSin -> LeeSin -> LeeSin -> LeeSin -> -> LeeSin

Cheese PopeJan 2, 20165 votes

LeeSin -> LeeSin -> LeeSin -> LeeSin -> (Actually unbalanced champion then blames CertainlyT) -> LeeSin

Silents429Jan 2, 20164 votes

I am waiting until we hit the point where Jinx is the most broken champion again.

KaisadiIIaJan 2, 20166 votes

When they nerf Vayne. The ADC cycle is like:

Vayne -> Jinx -> Lucian -> Kalista

MohawkBirdJan 3, 20161 votes

[deleted]

KaisadiIIaJan 3, 20161 votes

Just in case, I haven't said any of them are OP.

I Miss CannonJan 2, 201611 votes

Jinx is the most broken ADC after Vayne. Her steroids are so dumb it's not even funny anymore. She had nearly 40% pickrate PLUS 53% winrate 2 or 3 patches ago, that's even higher than Lees pickrate currently. And even in a meta where she's supposed to suck, her winrate only dropped by 2%.

Handin Out NapsJan 2, 20163 votes

There it is.

EndlessSorcererJan 2, 201610 votes

It's not like it's really hard to handle him with most mages.

The main issue is that people don't build or play correctly against him.

It's hilarious how many people insist on running Ignite against him instead of Exhaust or who refuse to rush 2 Doran's Rings and Seeker's Armguard before their mana (regen) item and complain when he kills them early.

Or people who don't just CC him when he comes out of his ultimate (since he always lands directly behind the target after a sec delay).

VaelixJan 2, 201635 votes

{quoted}

It's not like it's really hard to handle him with most mages.

The main issue is that people don't build or play correctly against him.

It's hilarious how many people insist on running Ignite against him instead of Exhaust or who refuse to rush 2 Doran's Rings and Seeker's Armguard before their mana (regen) item and complain when he kills them early.

Or people who don't just CC him when he comes out of his ultimate (since he always lands directly behind the target after a sec delay.

The problem for me is..

Zed doesn't have to change his summoner, hes running ignite regardless.

Zed doesn't have to change his build path, and with the addition of ARPen to Maw, he has an even more effective MR build path that ALSO shreds the defense hes forcing you to now rush.

Zed doesn't have to change his build path for his resource and thus hurt out in lane because of it, or even have to manage his resource at all.

The problem with Zed is hes forcing you to do all these things simply to SURVIVE against him, then doesn't have to change a god damn thing of his own Summoner, Items, Playstyle, or even champion pick.. Because if we're being honest... You don't pick nearly any champion into Zed.. You do pick Zed into nearly every champion because hes CSing for free, very easily, and completely safely regardless.. (And thats not healthy considering its a HIGH REWARD ASSASSIN.)

EndlessSorcererJan 2, 201624 votes

One could make the same argument against other assassins such as Talon, Diana, Akali, Riven, or Leblanc.

If you don't want to change your build path or playstyle depending on your opponent, then that is an issue on your end.

Counterplay and counter-building options exist. If you don't want to take advantage of them, I can't help you.

VaelixJan 2, 201615 votes

{quoted}

One could make the same argument against other assassins such as Talon, Diana, Akali, Riven, or Leblanc.

If you don't want to change your build path or playstyle depending on your opponent, then that is an issue on your end.

Counterplay and counter-building options exist. If you don't want to take advantage of them, I can't help you.

The problem is love, its a completely biased interaction.

You can't take any summoner, you have to make your selection based on Zed, Zed does what he wants.

You can't build for your resource and thus suffer CSing. Zed does what he wants and doesn't build or manage his own resource.

You must rush Seekers / Armguard. Zed does what he wants and rushes Early ARPen making the item he forced you to rush even less effective.

And finally Zed is fine into most champions, most champions are not fine into Zed.

To me, as a regular plat player with potentially diamond MMR in normals.. I feel that Zed's kit is extremely biased and warps the options available TOO HEAVILY when you also consider the fact that he himself is.. CSing easily/safely, Harassing easily/safely, Surviving ganks easily/safely, and otherwise pretty much simply existing EASILY AND SAFELY.. and is an assassin.

And to put a final point on the other champions point.

Talon isnt nearly as safe, has actual resource management, CSes more difficultly, etc.. Diana isnt nearly as safe, has actual resource management, CSes more difficultly, etc.. Akali isnt nearly as safe, has more difficult energy resource, CSes MUCH more difficultly, etc.. LeBlanc is as safe, but has actual resource management, CSes about average, etc.. Riven I am not going to comment on specifically other than "AOE Instant no requirement stun" which no other champion in the game has.

Ignoring Riven, LB is the only assassin in that list who has issues like Zed in an oppressive gameplay pattern which is biased in her favor.

Starblaster11Jan 2, 20162 votes

Riven doesn't have ranged poke, and definitely not poke that can be doubled in range or in damage by using another ability.

ADepressedLeonaJan 2, 20165 votes

{quoted}

The problem is love, its a completely biased interaction.

You can't take any summoner, you have to make your selection based on Zed, Zed does what he wants.

You can't build for your resource and thus suffer CSing. Zed does what he wants and doesn't build or manage his own resource.

You must rush Seekers / Armguard. Zed does what he wants and rushes Early ARPen making the item he forced you to rush even less effective.

And finally Zed is fine into most champions, most champions are not fine into Zed.

To me, as a regular plat player with potentially diamond MMR in normals.. I feel that Zed's kit is extremely biased and warps the options available TOO HEAVILY when you also consider the fact that he himself is.. CSing easily/safely, Harassing easily/safely, Surviving ganks easily/safely, and otherwise pretty much simply existing EASILY AND SAFELY.. and is an assassin.

And to put a final point on the other champions point.

Talon isnt nearly as safe, has actual resource management, CSes more difficultly, etc.. Diana isnt nearly as safe, has actual resource management, CSes more difficultly, etc.. Akali isnt nearly as safe, has more difficult energy resource, CSes MUCH more difficultly, etc.. LeBlanc is as safe, but has actual resource management, CSes about average, etc.. Riven I am not going to comment on specifically other than** "AOE Instant no requirement stun" which no other champion in the game has.**

Ignoring Riven, LB is the only assassin in that list who has issues like Zed in an oppressive gameplay pattern which is biased in her favor.

Actually there's one champion that has her beat in that regard

Alistar

TroiannJan 2, 201610 votes

High reward assassin? Every game I see zed he's useless unless my mid laner is a retard who fed him 50 kills in lane.

DIRUJan 2, 20164 votes

well. that's called being a lane bully. if you won't take advantage of his counterplay, there's a special place for you. here's a hint: it's worth money in real life, but here it is trash.

AlakalzamJan 2, 20168 votes

Still not as often as Lee, Lucian, MF, Trist, Blitz, Thresh, or Vayne. :p

RossMellowJan 2, 20167 votes

Maybe let others play what champs they want? I enjoy playing Zed but when I see posts like this it discourages me from playing the champs that I enjoy. He's not broken or anything you just have to make sure he doesn't get ahead early, because like many other assassins, that's what their goal is. To get ahead and crush the other carries' dreams of coming back easily. Talon, LB, or anyone does the same goal, just in a different playstyle.

YumaS2AstralJan 2, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Maybe let others play what champs they want? I enjoy playing Zed but when I see posts like this it discourages me from playing the champs that I enjoy. He's not broken or anything you just have to make sure he doesn't get ahead early, because like many other assassins, that's what their goal is. To get ahead and crush the other carries' dreams of coming back easily. Talon, LB, or anyone does the same goal, just in a different playstyle.

The problem is when people pick the same champion over and over. Not that this champion is OP or anything.

Why people don't pick Galio Chogath Ziggs Kassadin more, for example?

Big LincolnJan 2, 20165 votes

because they aren't nearly as fun to play

TurquoiseYoshiJan 2, 20161 votes

People's opinions on fun are very different. Personally, I like long-range poke mages like Ziggs Xerath Varus (He's an AD mage, I don't care what you think). Kassadin is the same role as Zed, what kind of person doesn't like running around as an enormous motherf*cker eating everything like a true American, and accomplishing a 5-man Galio ult is awesome. Just generally saying that some things aren't as fun isn't as helpful as to go into WHY the other champs seem more fun to more people.

KarKzzJan 2, 20163 votes

"AD mages" are called AD caster.

DengedenJan 2, 20164 votes

Playing a mage can feel a little generic. Zed is unique simply because he's AD.

I hate to say this (because it's intentionally misinterpreted) but he's simply more fun to play than other champions.

1000angrybeesJan 2, 20162 votes

How is Zed unique because he's AD yet a mage isn't unique because they're AP?? I'm not sure I understand the correlation here. If you mean because he's an AD midlaner, that's still not very unique.

DengedenJan 2, 20164 votes

Mage: CC/Shield, AoE, Mana based, Ranged, Item based ---> generic (I'm exaggerating a little but I imagine some people perceive it like that)

Zed (and other ADs): Can use AAs as a legit damage source, vulnerable since he's melee (so you have to play around that fact), strong tier 2 item spikes, hard to force out of lane thanks to defensive AD items and LS ---> fun (and because there are like 3 melee AD mids, he feels unique)

KaisadiIIaJan 2, 20164 votes

Olaf, Vayne, Darius and Garen are sooooooooooooooooooooo unique thanks to being AD. Meanwhile Azir, Ekko, LeBlanc, Malzahar, Syndra are all the same because they are AP.

K54Jan 2, 20164 votes

Enemy team = Zed Talon Yasuo You = Malphite Lissandra

Problem solved, you're welcome.

Cheese PopeJan 2, 20161 votes

Malphite Rammus DrMundo Alistar Nautilus Volibear

ayNigerianPrinceJan 2, 20162 votes

Guess we'll have to wait for Hexakill to come back to try this one.

AaravosJan 2, 20164 votes

I don't have problem with Zed himself. My only problem is mages and ap assasins can't deal with item 3155 and item 3156 in early/mid game and it's an unfair advantage. Once Zed buy the lane is over for every ap champion even if you countered him, it's impossible to outburst that broken shield. Before preseason was weaker on ad assasins so if you bought a you delayed your power spike for defensive stats what was fine. Currently item 3156 is easily accesable and very powerful, so hexdriker can be an auto purchase for every ad mid laners. Combine is with item 3139 (what is insanely powerful) fuck up every ap champion. Meanwhile item 3191 is a joke compared to item 3155 and item 3157 is very painful to rush and only give protection against burst, but not rly helpful against ad dps. Also Zed can freely start with item 1036 + 3 item 2003 , what gives him better sustain and easier acces to . And this is what break Zed alongside with tld+precision. And this is why we see Zed is every single game.

SpicayJan 2, 20163 votes

People say Zed has "no counterplay", but I recall laning against an Ahri one time as Zed and she started the game with 50 armor.

I'd say "countered" was a good term for the situation.

KaisadiIIaJan 2, 20163 votes

To be fair that's not counterplay, that's counterbuild.

When you build Zhonya's to have a strong active +armor against Zed you are counterbuilding. When Zed dashes to you with his ultimate, and you time a stun just behind you that will hit him as soon as he appears, that's counterplay.

KING 5HARKJan 2, 20162 votes

Building/chosing runes is a part of playing right?

Hello I am BirdJan 2, 20162 votes

He isn't saying that counterbuilding isn't apart of playing, just that it isn't the same thing as counterplay

KING 5HARKJan 11, 20161 votes

So okay, there is no counterplay, but counterbuilds, get over it and start COUNTERBUILDING then(why does everything need counterPLAY?)

Hello I am BirdJan 11, 20161 votes

Well, originally, I wanted nothing to do with this thread, just clarifying.

Buuuuut, since you asked...

Counterplay feels much more satisfying to both teams, as it creates a sort of skill vs skill match that players take advantage of.

Counterbuilding, on the other hand, feels more cheap than anything. All you do is buy some items to do 1 of 2 things

1: Slightly lessen your chances to die 2: completely negate the champion

This will almost always feel bad for one of the two sides, be it the receiving end or the delivering end.

That isn't to say I think that counterbuilding shouldn't be apart of the game, just that there should be a nice balance between the two.

SpicayJan 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

To be fair that's not counterplay, that's counterbuild.

When you build Zhonya's to have a strong active +armor against Zed you are counterbuilding. When Zed dashes to you with his ultimate, and you time a stun just behind you that will hit him as soon as he appears, that's counterplay.

"Counterbuilding" fits into counterplay against champions like Zed, because building massive amounts of armor inherently makes him worse at what he does, and once enough people have a nice chunk of armor, it pretty much forces him into trying to split push since he can't properly assassinate targets.

I feel like Zed is much healthier than champions like Rengar and Talon when they are strong, as they quite literally just roll over you with items. The only way Zed is just no-skill 1-shotting someone is if he is insanely ahead and a Death Mark + Shadow Slash alone will kill you. Now I know someone is going to say "But Talon has no escapes once he goes in, therefore he's balanced!", but that doesn't matter when he gets several items and literally AoE's 3 members of your team to death in less than 2 seconds.

ElysMustacheJan 2, 20162 votes

Is picking Urgot into Zed still a thing?

Haven't tried it lately. But then again I didn't lose a single game against Zed all of Season 5.

Also why not pick Cho'gath?

YumaS2AstralJan 2, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Is picking Urgot into Zed still a thing?

Haven't tried it lately. But then again I didn't lose a single game against Zed all of Season 5.

Also why not pick Cho'gath?

Urgot himself is not a popular pick, but I believe that he can still beat Zed.

Cho'Gath can beat Zed, too. Again, he is not a popular pick.

There is also the fact that people don't tend to get the champions that can actually counter Zed.

fééd l0rdJan 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Is picking Urgot into Zed still a thing?

Haven't tried it lately. But then again I didn't lose a single game against Zed all of Season 5.

Also why not pick Cho'gath?

I am playing a good bunch of Zed and I can say.. yes, kinda. You want to survive against Zed in lane and if he ults you you want to survive the 3 seconds where he will do everything to burst you down till the little shuriken appears above your head. During his ultimate Urgot can cast his ultimate, this makes Zed lose a lot of time where he can deal damage, Urgot can stack armor items like frozen heart or ICG and he is solid in lane.

Chogath is basically the same but you should try not to die pre 6.

JbelsJan 2, 20162 votes

To everyone who keeps calling me a whiner, saying I called him OP or don't know how to counter him. Did I ever once call him broken? I never said he was broken I am just SICK OF SEEING HIM. IT. IS. BORING. #championdiversity

iDarkWindJan 2, 20161 votes

I'm a Zed main, should I feel bad for enjoy playing with him? Dude, he is strong right now but he still have a lot of counters. Instead of complaining about him, start to think how to play against him and how to counter him. You could have also asked for advices versus a Zed instead of just saying "I'm sick of him".

PartholonianJan 2, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Dude, he is strong right now but he still have a lot of counters. Instead of complaining about him, start to think how to play against him and how to counter him.

Even if you do this, it still means you can't pick any midlaner you enjoy who ISN'T a Zed counter if Zed has already been picked by the enemy.

And what if you have to pick before the enemy mid has shown? Then you can't pick anyone who gets shit on by Zed (a long list), or they'll just pick Zed and shit on you. (Unless he's banned, but 4/5 of games you're not in control of your team's bans.)

Counter picks aren't enough, MOST champions should have a way to outplay him even AFTER champion select, and right now, they really don't.