Jungle needs help badly.

lolipopevelynn·Mar 4, 2019·42 votes·14,945 views

Right now it favors bullshit champs that can lvl 2 or lvl 3 cheese really easily OR have global ultimates . everyone else just feels horrible to play.

like you nerf the jungle specifically to HANDICAP junglers from ganking early while PROMOTING certain champions to gank early.

its like these are the only damn junglers that exist in the game right now. the jungle was treated and handled so horribly. what happened to "jungle diversity"? you guys just shat that out the window or something?

51 Comments

heroikcMar 4, 201920 votes

Yeah, Riot failed hard in balancing.

I memba balance Mar 4, 20196 votes

par for the course my friend. par for the course

heroikcMar 4, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=I memba balance ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=guE1WHEQ,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-03-04T04:18:08.069+0000)

par for the course my friend. par for the course

In Riot's case, it is the biggest bogey I've ever seen...and still ongoing.

Quiet DudeMar 4, 201915 votes

"Laughs in Kayn "

General MattyMar 4, 201912 votes

Revert crab changes. That's a start

Clone Is FriendMar 5, 20191 votes

just foken #revertleague

PlsBuffMyMainMar 4, 201911 votes

Graves Rammus aren't even that good right now, but I agree with how all the other junglers that need level 6 or can't spam gank feel terrible to play.

Lord Scorch 62Mar 4, 20192 votes

i agree, graves and rammus themselves are not top-notch. but right now with games only lasting 20-25 mins in low-elo, a good early gank can make the match right then and there.

graves and rammus literally only need to go bot at level 2, get one kill for the lane, and most of the time it is gg.

A BepiMar 4, 20191 votes

{quoted}

aren't even that good right now, but I agree with how all the other junglers that need level 6 or can't spam gank feel terrible to play.

Well tbh rammus does well against the meta rn since most popular junglers are all ad. Jungle needs changes because I agree it feels bad playing level 6 junglers against champions like rek, j4 and xin.

Sir SaltarinMar 4, 201910 votes

Kinda agree, Jungle needs tweaks more than just raw buffs.

Titanium70Mar 4, 20199 votes

I kinda feel like the JGL is beyond saving at this point. I mean what do we want? What does Riot want?

Ideal world:

Full JGL roaster is viable.
Games are decided by the better team - not the better JGL
Laner have some skillexpression besides: "I can AFK waveclear until my JGL shows up" (midlane in a nutshell)
JGL feel like they're able to have an impact.

To be entirely honest here - as a laner who gets most of his fun in this game from the laning phase I really enjoyed Tank Metas and the time of Feral Flare. Tanks ganking you early still are able to kill you when you're out of position, but at least they dont trade for their laning making you loose half of your HP for nothing at level 2 when you're in an ok spot, like J4 and friends do lately...

I'm so bored by this! Where is the fun or skillexpression if I have to lane as/or lane against someone who had to trade with JGL at 2 loosing half of his HP while the JGL doesn't give a #### and just smites the crab back to full HP????

What I'd do right now?

Make the jgl HURT! Badly! Full HP ganks? Forget it! Someone out of position can be killed with 30-50% health! Someone who's not shouldn't have to bother with J4 in his face at minutes 3, 5 and 8! How? Give every JGL monster additional Current Health DMG scaling from 100-30% HP. Hit hard if you're full HP, but also easily manageable by slow clearing champions. Since they deal alot less DMG once you're low!
Healing Smite? BEGONE! (more passive sustain from JGL items /// alternatively healing heavily nerfed but bring back poachers which directly buffs PvE smite )
Fruits? BEGONE! (Or heavily delayed/nerfed until the ~10th minute mark if you have a boner for them)
In exchange for the HP loss: Alot more Gold and more EXP for the JGLs, idealy balanced to reach 6 slightly behind laners without crabs - and with laners when in crab controll.

I have some ideas left but this changes alone would HEAVILY shift the META so anything else would be a blind shot.

K, just my 5 cent from a Midlaner and a decent Jungler back in earlier seasons. Feel free to leave your thoughts.

And btw: I can already see the jgl "mains" crying.

DurzakaMar 4, 20195 votes

Make the jgl HURT! Badly! Full HP ganks? Forget it! Someone out of position can be killed with 30-50% health! Someone who's not shouldn't have to bother with J4 in his face at minutes 3, 5 and 8! How? Give every JGL monster additional Current Health DMG scaling from 100-30% HP. Hit hard if you're full HP, but also easily manageable by slow clearing champions. Since they deal alot less DMG once you're low!

Healing Smite? BEGONE! (more passive sustain from JGL items /// alternatively healing heavily nerfed but bring back poachers which directly buffs PvE smite )

Fruits? BEGONE! (Or heavily delayed/nerfed until the ~10th minute mark if you have a boner for them)

In exchange for the HP loss: Alot more Gold and more EXP for the JGLs, idealy balanced to reach 6 slightly behind laners without crabs - and with laners when in crab control.

Sounds to me like you want the original jungle this game had. Which would be a terrible idea. Every single change you want is something we had in the past.

More painful jungle? Just makes heavy sustain junglers the meta (stuff like Fiddle and WW back in the day, for example. As well as the usual suspects who were so strong they didnt give a fuck, like Lee Sin).

No Healing Smite. See above.

Fruits. Yeah, I dont understand why they exist at all.

More gold and XP in the jungle will just encourage heavy counter jungling instead of ganking. Some people find that a positive, I personally dont.

Titanium70Mar 4, 20194 votes

Sounds to me like you want the original jungle this game had. Which would be a terrible idea. Every single change you want is something we had in the past.

Some of it, maybe. But we had fine JGLs in the past. For the Jungle, Riot just changes things for the sake of change, not to make anything actually better...

More painful jungle? Just makes heavy sustain junglers the meta (stuff like Fiddle and WW back in the day, for example. As well as the usual suspects who were so strong they didnt give a fuck, like Lee Sin).

While Fiddle is an exception, with current HP DMG on the monsters even sustain champs will get low. Not as low as others but enough to keep a compedition.

More gold and XP in the jungle will just encourage heavy counter jungling instead of ganking. Some people find that a positive, I personally dont.

So JGLs compete with each other instead of annoying the laners? Count me in!

Flavi KangMar 4, 20192 votes

I'm jungle main too, I agree with most of your points. Junglers should not be able to spam ganks every second minute. But your suggestion of making camps do more damage is bad because junglers like fiddle, ww, graves will just push out everyone.

Imo junglers who just sit in bush and spam ganks (and fail most of them), should naturally fall behind someone who is farming his camps consistently. The game should punish junglers who sit in lane bush for minutes and not let laners play the fucking game, because it is not healthy. Instead, the game is rewarding them by giving them more xp from lanes, compared to jungle camps which give such low xp. They should just increase jungle xp, lower jungle camp spawn timers and reduce the shared xp that junglers get from minions. Like, change shared xp between jungler and laner from 50:50 to 30:70 or something.

Titanium70Mar 4, 20193 votes

I agree basicly on everyhting in the second part - getting there is the problem.

Considering the first: You're right - the champs you mentioned will be problems. But I don't think this %-approach would eliminate all compedition. Keep in mind - it's not about making the JGL just hurt alot like we had in the past. (Which failed) It's about punching you to 50-60%HP with the first couple hits and than go back to what we're used to - even lower once you get lower.

Obviously, it's by far not perfect and just a random idea.

DurzakaMar 4, 20194 votes

So JGLs compete with each other instead of annoying the laners? Count me in!

Sounds like a boring existence to me.

If I wanted to compete against one other player, id go play mid or top. Jung is its own beast and deserves it.

Also agree with what Klavi said, you arent understanding what more damage camps would actually do to the meta. It would stagnate it just as much as now, just with a different subset of champions.

wildfox9TMar 4, 20191 votes

Just makes heavy sustain junglers the meta

honestly i wouldn't mind being able to play my lane for more than 2 minutes without getting ganked

counterjungle meta is the best way to balance the jungle,junglers interact with each other ganking less,laners can also "gank" the jungler helping with invades or when the enemy jungle invade

junglers can still impact the game but they have less impact on the lanes,which is what riot wanted

Daddy AntsMar 4, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I kinda feel like the JGL is beyond saving at this point. I mean what do we want? What does Riot want?

Ideal world:

Full JGL roaster is viable.

Games are decided by the better team - not the better JGL

Laner have some skillexpression besides: "I can AFK waveclear until my JGL shows up" (midlane in a nutshell)

JGL feel like they're able to have an impact.

To be entirely honest here - as a laner who gets most of his fun in this game from the laning phase I really enjoyed Tank Metas and the time of Feral Flare. Tanks ganking you early still are able to kill you when you're out of position, but at least they dont trade for their laning making you loose half of your HP for nothing at level 2 when you're in an ok spot, like J4 and friends do lately...

**I'm so bored by this! Where is the fun or skillexpression if I have to lane as/or lane against someone who had to trade with JGL at 2 loosing half of his HP while the JGL doesn't give a #### and just smites the crab back to full HP???? **

What I'd do right now?

Make the jgl HURT! Badly! Full HP ganks? Forget it! Someone out of position can be killed with 30-50% health! Someone who's not shouldn't have to bother with J4 in his face at minutes 3, 5 and 8! How? Give every JGL monster additional Current Health DMG scaling from 100-30% HP. Hit hard if you're full HP, but also easily manageable by slow clearing champions. Since they deal alot less DMG once you're low!

Healing Smite? BEGONE! (more passive sustain from JGL items /// alternatively healing heavily nerfed but bring back poachers which directly buffs PvE smite )

Fruits? BEGONE! (Or heavily delayed/nerfed until the ~10th minute mark if you have a boner for them)

In exchange for the HP loss: Alot more Gold and more EXP for the JGLs, idealy balanced to reach 6 slightly behind laners without crabs - and with laners when in crab controll.

I have some ideas left but this changes alone would HEAVILY shift the META so anything else would be a blind shot.

K, just my 5 cent from a Midlaner and a decent Jungler back in earlier seasons. Feel free to leave your thoughts.

And btw: I can already see the jgl "mains" crying.

I'd start by lowering sustain from Jungle items and removing the honeyfruit plants.

If you want junglers to take more damage in the jungle then hit their sustain.

But that comes at a price.... Some junglers have inherent sustain in their kits (Lee Sin, Kha'Zix, Rengar for example)...

Let's look at forms of sustain junglers have available to them right now

item 1041 item 1039 item 3715 item 3706

Scuttle Crab Honeyfruit

Titanium70Mar 4, 20191 votes

I feel like that would only get us back to where we came from. ^^'

Simply making the JGL "harder" will just limit the JGL pool even more without making more healthy for anyone.

Clone Is FriendMar 5, 20192 votes

just go back to season 4-5 or something XD

#revertleague

mack9112Mar 4, 20196 votes

What is the direction the jungle should go in you think currently ?

The top 5 picked junglers currently are Lee , Jarv , Kayn , kha , rek

The top 5 winrate junglers are Nunu shyv vi yi and udyr.

The roster definitely feels kinda diverse so idk

lolipopevelynnMar 4, 20196 votes

{quoted}

What is the direction the jungle should go in you think currently ?

The top 5 picked junglers currently are Lee , Jarv , Kayn , kha , rek

The top 5 winrate junglers are Nunu shyv vi yi and udyr.

The roster definitely feels kinda diverse so idk

buff early game warding and then after that bring back jungle exp. the only reason people complained about the jungle to begin with is because vision is lacking in the game. maybe if people can ward more frequently during the early game they wouldnt have to worry about lvl 3 ganks as much. its a simple fix in my eyes, but riot has a hate fetish for vision right now. vision makes it to where you can safely buff jungle camp exp again. clearing 3 camps and still not being able to hit lvl 3 is absolute dog shit for junglers who dont come online until 6.

mack9112Mar 4, 20191 votes

But doing what you suggest would make power gankers come online earlier. I remember playing reksai early last season and every game would get first blood since I would hit 3 before any of the laners and immediately gank with guaranteed kill.

The vision game is definitely an interesting one idk how much impact it truly has but would probably end up giving more power to junglers who can circumvent wards such as zac or reksai

Ultimately the more agency the jungler has the less the laners get as the jungler becomes the pendulum that the team swings on.

Perhaps the role needs more variety , imagine a rune tree devoted to enhancing different jungle strategies such as more xp for power farming or more movement speed while counter jungling , reintroduce the sentinel in your jungle for vision or even have guards or something.

I feel in the current format there will always be only one dominant way of jungling as a huge variety of champions compete for one role .

SilentBomberMar 4, 20193 votes

{quoted}

What is the direction the jungle should go in you think currently ?

Remember back to season 4 when all junglers were forced to start from wolves?They had to start wolves,blue and then red.There was jungle diversity and lvl 2 ganks were extremely rare.

mack9112Mar 4, 20192 votes

But you don’t want linear jungle paths

IllabetheMar 4, 20195 votes

Welcome back to Season 7. Those champs were the meta then too.

Imo Lee is stupidly OP after his Q rework this year. Whose idea was it to give his second Q hit Missing HP damage that scales so hard he can literally 1 shot you with 1 skill?

He's like the only champ that when played correctly has almost no 1v1 agency early game to fight/avoid. I'm a smurf, and even a Silver Lee can kill my Udyr/Morg, simply because even if you disrupt his second Q from hitting with a stun, etc, he can just do the scenario over again 4 seconds later...... Q also travels so fast sometimes it's hard to just dodge it, and if you dodge it, Lee will just retreat....

Rammus imo is easy to counter, but probably because of the champions I play. Rek Sai I think is niche, even if she can ensure a kill here or there. The community problem with her is simply that the majority do not know her kit, and just think about the tunnels, rather than the on hit mark that allows her to R to you and burst you to 0. Graves is slightly less gross than Season 7, but still a pretty annoying kit, especially in crit meta, now that he can hit one person with 4 pellets.... Jarvan I've hated since Evelynn got reworked. He just has too easy a time crossing maps at level 2-4. He can both do his own jungle + invade + gank all three lanes in one rotation. Something most junglers can't do.

NaalithMar 4, 20194 votes

It sucks so much ass to want to play less aggressive junglers and know you can't because the enemy will take both crabs, probably grab some of your camps, and put you behind even your bottom lane in levels.

If they wanted people to gank less they probably shouldn't have disproportionately nerfed champions who don't like to gank level 2 or 3 as often.

Death Angel KaynMar 4, 20194 votes

I like when people play stuff like Elise. God I miss Elise.<3

DurzakaMar 4, 20193 votes

Elise is still getting played quite a bit.

51% win rate, 11% pick rate.

Shes doing just fine.

14daysuspensionkMar 4, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Death Angel Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=guE1WHEQ,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-03-04T02:23:45.424+0000)

I like when people play stuff like Elise. God I miss Elise.<3

I have M6 on that champion, pretty much stuck at that mastery xD.

0 HogapuMar 4, 20192 votes

(Im not a jungler main at all but) Why don't they buff early XP from camps, then lower it as time goes ? This way, early junglers still gank, and then fall off, while farming junglers will have an actual recompense for farming

I hate having to leave my lane, I love having to play the lane and doing my 1v1. nowadays it is like, both junglers will always try to 1v1 the other dude no matter how lanes are positionned (and of course, always ask 'WHY DONT U MOVE') Farming should give more than ganking.

Daddy AntsMar 5, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=MTFN Azor ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=guE1WHEQ,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-03-04T15:48:49.683+0000)

(Im not a jungler main at all but) Why don't they buff early XP from camps, then lower it as time goes ? This way, early junglers still gank, and then fall off, while farming junglers will have an actual recompense for farming

I hate having to leave my lane, I love having to play the lane and doing my 1v1. nowadays it is like, both junglers will always try to 1v1 the other dude no matter how lanes are positionned (and of course, always ask 'WHY DONT U MOVE') Farming should give more than ganking.

Because Jungle impact is at it's strongest during the early game.

Also, I and many others don't want a repeat of early season 7.

Where Junglers were hitting level 6 when Bot lane was level 3-4.

There needs to be trade off's / penalties / drawbacks to level 2 ganking / camping a lane.

Another way I think they could lower the power of level 2 ganking is by reducing the power of Red buff.

0 HogapuMar 5, 20191 votes

I mean, why is it at its strongest early game ? Because on the impact it has on lanes, and because of how important scuttle crab is. If junglers get to have more exp on the 1st clear, they are likely not going to gank as much, and will lead to less early interactions with mid/top, while aggressive jungler can still gank n kill and get their advantage from there. Then the XP would be reduced to avoid :

Also, I and many others don't want a repeat of early season 7.

Where Junglers were hitting level 6 when Bot lane was level 3-4.

(cant agree more on the Red Buff nerf, at least early game. Even Lucian 's ganks become stupid with this)

Daddy AntsMar 10, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=MTFN Azor ,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=guE1WHEQ,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2019-03-05T15:53:48.803+0000)

I mean, why is it at its strongest early game ? Because on the impact it has on lanes, and because of how important scuttle crab is. If junglers get to have more exp on the 1st clear, they are likely not going to gank as much, and will lead to less early interactions with mid/top, while aggressive jungler can still gank n kill and get their advantage from there. Then the XP would be reduced to avoid :

(cant agree more on the Red Buff nerf, at least early game. Even 's ganks become stupid with this)

Weaker slow early imo.

Towboat421Mar 4, 20192 votes

The problem at it's core is that riot doesnt understand the jungle, they repeatedly state the intent of their changes and they almost always have the oppisite effect on the jungle. They kept ridiculing junglers for having too much pressure early game but with the jungle exp changes the game is literally gank or bust, farming isnt even remotly viable.

Tempest StormMar 4, 20192 votes

I use to play jungle champions like Lee Sin, J4, Elise. Now, I play Ivern and Udyr. They are low econ junglers that do not need too much gold/exp to excel which is why I play them. The nerfs to jungle exp really does hurt a lot of jungle champions. In my opinion, I think it really sucks to die at any point pre lvl6 and unable to gank a lane due to laners being higher or equal level to the jungler.

OgScMar 5, 20192 votes

All cuz of scuttle changes tbh. Many junglers who can skirmish well lv.2 can also gank well lv.2. But uhh.. I want riot ot fix jungle so Shaclone can stop inting games.

Daddy AntsMar 10, 20191 votes

{quoted}

All cuz of scuttle changes tbh. Many junglers who can skirmish well lv.2 can also gank well lv.2. But uhh.. I want riot ot fix jungle so Shaclone can stop inting games.

They need to give him the pre-reformed Tyler1 treatment and ID ban him.

14daysuspensionkMar 4, 20191 votes

I am a jungle main and I have a pretty big jungle pool ( Nidalee Warwick Kindred Elise Evelynn Rengar Shyvana Khazix Ivern Gnar ). and I don't find myself struggling too much to play well most of the time, though that might be because I play in low elo. I play for masteries, not ranked climbing.

Deliberate InterMar 4, 20191 votes

But level 2 and 3 ganks usually aren't even the highest EV plays. Especially in higher elo or vs sentient players who either know about the matchups or play a little differently with them in mind. Btw, where is Zac and Sej on your list? The two S+ junglers atm just saying

Linna ExcelMar 4, 20191 votes

I would think that if riot were pushing the game to shorter times, they'd encourage metas that you can make an impact on the game early, IE the level 2/3 gankers.

I think this is a partly a byproduct of the new tower plating system. Getting a kill and then taking down a plate for an extra 160 GP is a big swing. If you get first blood that's 560 GP you've got to base with. That's more than enough to buy a mid component or two smaller ones if you back after that. Imagine trying to come back in a lane when your opponent has a pickax or a blasting wand and you've got dorans. That's why level 2/3 gankers are good right now. Riot added a system which increases the value of the early game.

BlueSmurf2018Mar 4, 20191 votes

Im literally s2, playing kha zix and evelynn, kha with 70% wr and eve with 60%wr. Jungle is fine. Did the nerfs go too far? Hell yea. Do i want the jg xp back? Hell fukin yea. But jungle is fine rn, its just a lottle shitty to play it is all

huhndogMar 5, 20191 votes

The issues was that riot's main goal for s9's jungle changes was to move away from early game junglers. Instead, it did the exact opposite

ChaosThiefMar 5, 20191 votes

Nitpick; Nocturne and Pantheon do not have global ultimates. Nocturne especially.

Back to the actual discussion: this is how league has pretty much always been. Farming junglers are never meta unless something breaks them (feral flare/devourer, they can get an exp and gold lead from farming the jungle to the point of being oppressive, etc etc.) and it seems to boil down to "we want junglers to influence the game." On paper, sure, it makes sense. In practice, however, they become walking ganks; they take a camp or two to get themselves some exp, gank a lane, then gank another lane, then another, and another... the jungle became a fallback option rather than a choice.

Unless some hilariously massive scale changes are made, this is how it will remain; people will always pick the best ganking and objective control champions (AKA, strong early game) unless the other option is absolutely absurd. Players will also want this; they want a jungler that basically guarantees a lane victory for them, or at the very least preventing an enemy from snowballing off of them, as well as the buffs (red/blue). Farming junglers are seen as a handicap and counter-junglers are seen as terrible because why take the enemy's jungle when that just forces them to gank again, or worse, hunt you down and kill you, since you likely can't fight the ganker in a 1v1.

People will always optimize, playing the best champions for any given situation to win. They will not "pick whatever they want" because if you aren't playing to win and win alone, people assume this is some kind of trolling. Sure, it can get more diverse, but I would still expect the same number of "strong picks" in the jungle, regardless of the choices (in your example, you listed 7 total. I can imagine the "less effective" ganker types being replaced by the farming types instead, not adding to the pool.)

MullaousMar 5, 20191 votes

I don't really understand the complaint. There is a huge list of junglers around 5% playrate and around 50% winrates. While a couple junglers who have always been popular picks just because alot of people find them fun, like lee sin, j4 and khazix are getting high play percentage like they usually do. Seems pretty diversified to me, especially compared to just a few patches ago. Also if there's any issue with winning from jungle atm, I'm sure af not feeling it.

lovealertMar 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Right now it favors bullshit champs that can lvl 2 or lvl 3 cheese really easily OR have global ultimates . everyone else just feels horrible to play.

like you nerf the jungle specifically to HANDICAP junglers from ganking early while PROMOTING certain champions to gank early.

its like these are the only damn junglers that exist in the game right now. the jungle was treated and handled so horribly. what happened to "jungle diversity"? you guys just shat that out the window or something?

@Christmas Evelynn, Are you finding it hard to play Evelynn in the jungle right now? or is it just me? I am diamond with her and ever since these patches have gone through. I have found it so difficult to solo or do anything alone, unless I get overly fed, but even the slightest bit fed is still not enough for me to do anything.. Like she does no damage until late....

lolipopevelynnMar 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

@Christmas Evelynn, Are you finding it hard to play Evelynn in the jungle right now? or is it just me? I am diamond with her and ever since these patches have gone through. I have found it so difficult to solo or do anything alone, unless I get overly fed, but even the slightest bit fed is still not enough for me to do anything.. Like she does no damage until late....

The problem i have with eves current state is that she gets bullied hard by so many champs pre 6. I cant even contest scuttles. Recently ive been doing some pre 6 gank and aggression strats and ive lost so many games simply trying to contest scuttle.

This is a problem for me because if i power farm to 6 my team gets fucked by early gankers and we lose control of drags. If i pre 6 gank i am 100% dependent on my team for backup which is a coin flip everytime, and my luck sucks. So yes i do find it hard to play eve right now. If i can get even 1 or 2 kills early tho i can snowball myself easily from there. She just needs her team to help her from getting counter jgled early, that is so important.

And considering everyone can see my mastery score now i legit get invaded and counter jgled 90% of my games.

lovealertMar 5, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The problem i have with eves current state is that she gets bullied hard by so many champs pre 6. I cant even contest scuttles. Recently ive been doing some pre 6 gank and aggression strats and ive lost so many games simply trying to contest scuttle.

This is a problem for me because if i power farm to 6 my team gets fucked by early gankers and we lose control of drags. If i pre 6 gank i am 100% dependent on my team for backup which is a coin flip everytime, and my luck sucks. So yes i do find it hard to play eve right now. If i can get even 1 or 2 kills early tho i can snowball myself easily from there. She just needs her team to help her from getting counter jgled early, that is so important.

And considering everyone can see my mastery score now i legit get invaded and counter jgled 90% of my games.

RIGHT! That is the same problem yet nobody understands, they throw the, "she is so broken, she gets to be invis" which is not true at all...Evelynn's early is so bad to the point where even when I do gank, they just jump on me right after the charm is done and erase me because they know I don't do damage. Junglers invade early because they KNOW she wont be able to fight back, all I can do is run away and let them take all my camps. Even when I do fight them and they are half HP early, I still cant kill them because I have no damage, they can auto me to death and simply erase me.

Awhile ago I was playing against jungle Sylas who only had item 3706 item 3108 as so did I, and when he was low, around 10% HP, he got all his HP back and I had to stand there and let him kill me because my damage was still not enough.

It just bugs me that the some or MOST junglers I should say get all this power, and as people who love playing Eve or any other really low squish damage champion have to sit back, play safe and hope the team can win lanes until we get to 6...but even by then, the lanes are literally almost over and lost because they are getting all these ganks from champs with high mobility and damage, which just is not fair...

I really wish she was able to get more damage in the early to punish players for invading her jungle and making mistakes in the lanes, because right now, I cant contest anything nor can I play a bit aggressive and gank as much as I want to, without being erased and not doing damage...

Also im not too sure about the 2 kills early snowballing, because even then, I find her damage to be a bit lack luster

Clone Is FriendMar 5, 20191 votes

dont forget to mention how dead powerdarming is :)

GripaAviaraMar 5, 20191 votes

The current state of the game is because of competitive play. With the nerfing of vision, farming in the jungle makes more sense than risking ganks. And all the early kills usually come from ganks, which Riot wants to happen for the show, so they force early flashy ganks

So enjoy the current jungle because of pro. Same as you enjoy Ryze or Aatrox