Can You Finally Fix the Matchmaking?

Janakin·Jun 1, 2019·40 votes·13,371 views

Non-smurf bronze 1 guy in his promo to silver, duoQing with his unranked premade, being matched with a guy in his promo to platinum 3...

This is just absurd...

41 Comments

Neumím RivenJun 1, 20197 votes

Can I post it on reddit? Rito gives a shit on boards.

SaiannaJun 1, 201912 votes

you think reddit riot mods will allow this thread? Last time I checked the censorship and "riot is god in disguise" hivemind made sure anything not within the flow of popular opinions is instantly either removed or hated and bashed to the point of being removed.

DisembarkJun 2, 20191 votes

Reddit mods don't suck riot's dick though. They are just awful in general. Low effort shitposts or rageposts can make the front page but actual proper content and esports articles get removed because they don't like the creator or w.e. bullshit reason they can come up with to get a power trip.

LeetriJun 2, 20191 votes

You clearly don't visit reddit that often then. There's currently 2-3 complain threads on the front page. The main difference is that they don't allow low effort harassment posts (aka most of the shit you get on the boards).

JanakinJun 2, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Neumím Riven,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gnJdmE78,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-01T16:24:56.166+0000)

Can I post it on reddit? Rito gives a shit on boards.

Sure. Feel free to do so.

EDIT: And send me a link if you can, please :-)

ZardoJun 1, 20196 votes

Considering the cait was duoing with a platinum mmr unranked blitz duoq is the issue here, not matchmaking.

SerevasJun 1, 20195 votes

Not sure why someone down voted you for explaining precisely what happened. Just because you're unranked doesn't mean that you're going to play against iron players to abuse the system for easy LP. That got fixed at the beginning of the season because of the scumbags abusing that in high elo.

JhinfamouslyJun 1, 20197 votes

That's not the problem. It's that the Cait had zero business being in that game. That is of course if we're supposed to take the ranked ladder seriously as a test of true skill/ability.. which nowadays isn't really the case.

AnchobiJun 1, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Considering the cait was duoing with a platinum mmr unranked blitz duoq is the issue here, not matchmaking.

yyyyy you cant do that because they are too far away in divisions/MMR?

ZardoJun 1, 20195 votes

You can do it if they're unranked with a high mmr because it's not a visible rank and that's how riot decides whether or not to let you duo.

CevradJun 1, 20198 votes

Yeh, I have high gold MMR still, but had this same MMR after the first game told me I would get placed Bronze 3. Most games since have been borderline plat MMR games. The thing I don't understand is why new accounts with massive MMR aren't just being placed at that MMR if they are going to be playing in those games -_- Why is a new account winning games in Gold/Plat not just placed in Gold/Plat. Why place in bronze/silver...

AnchobiJun 1, 20195 votes

{quoted}

You can do it if they're unranked with a high mmr because it's not a visible rank and that's how riot decides whether or not to let you duo.

But cait is 40% win rate bronze and was silver for few seasons, she cant have plat MMR. Blitz didn't finish his placements yet but he was plat last season so he must have close to plat MMR. How is this allowed I dont get it. Is this some kind of mess up after positional ranks?

Kai GuyJun 1, 20198 votes

I wonder how long I will have to keep telling players that Duoing needs to be restricted to the same class intervals of MMR that MM is before it sinks in that making massive skill gaps with your premade creates massive skill gaps in games.

Exin0Jun 1, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Considering the cait was duoing with a platinum mmr unranked blitz duoq is the issue here, not matchmaking.

on one hand yeah he was plat in s7, s8. in this season he is without placement and with his loses system will probably put him into silver but without rank he can go with his low elo friend without restrictions but in same time system see him as high elo player, its wierd system. It should apply rank restrictions from previous season until you get new rank otherwise this will be always problem.

ZardoJun 1, 20191 votes

I completely agree. But this is an issue with duoing, not a matchmaking issue.

DeleteSuppRoleJun 1, 20194 votes

There should be a pure solo queue with no duo

ﬂooJun 2, 20194 votes

It was a normal game. Yet, this shouldn't happen IMO

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/279682478254587905/583638598704955431/unknown.png

LeetriJun 2, 20192 votes

Normals are completely separate from Ranked, for all you know that Challenger player could've had Bronze 3 MMR in Normals. Only way to prevent this is to merge Normals and Ranked into 1 queue.

ﬂooJun 2, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Normals are completely separate from Ranked, for all you know that Challenger player could've had Bronze 3 MMR in Normals. Only way to prevent this is to merge Normals and Ranked into 1 queue.

Yes, they are different. Which is ridiculous. Why would a person suddenly play like a bronze, if he's place 249 on the EUW soloQ ladder, simply because he clicked on a different button when choosing the queue?

It's not the only way; you could also let the normal mmr be affected by the ranked mmr, just not 1:1. You should play against people of the same skill level, but not on a different skill level entirely, decided by which queue you choose.

DisulfiramJun 2, 20191 votes

It could be made kind of like Shen's dagger: if the MMR in a queue lags too far behind the MMR in another queue, then it gets bumped up a bit.

ﬂooJun 3, 20191 votes

{quoted}

It could be made kind of like Shen's dagger: if the MMR in a queue lags too far behind the MMR in another queue, then it gets bumped up a bit.

Kinda, yea. Right now it's like a Shen who doesn't even skill his Q.

LeetriJun 3, 20191 votes

What if I have Diamond MMR in Normals, but I only play 10-20 games of ranked so I'm still only Silver? Should my Normals MMR start dropping to adjust to my much lower ranked MMR? You'd need a lot of arbitrary rules to keep it in check.

haaaaaaalpJun 2, 20194 votes

Matchmaking can't fix duoqueue in solo queue. Riot needs to move duoqueue into flex.

CevradJun 1, 20193 votes

Matchmaking an issue yet they did better than you. A bronze player outperformed you in a plat game. How you feeling? I don't understand how you can look at this game and pin the fault on the Bronze ADC and the unranked support when you have the superior top and jungle who just won the 2v2 top lane. Congrats on getting a free win at the hands of a solid jungler. By the rate you complaining, you need it.

SaiannaJun 1, 20198 votes

there has to be always at least 1 guy like you in every thread like this one.

EedatJun 1, 20195 votes

Jesus look at the match history. He duo'd 5 games with his plat friend and went 1W-5L and his single win was because his team was fed as fuck and carried him. And thats even with the fucking huge advantage of being a duo bot lane. No, a 40% winrate bronze player does not belong in high gold/plat games

ASmartPenguinJun 1, 20193 votes

The MMR system right now isnt fair. Riot makes it so that your MMR is where you should be ranked which isnt fair because you have played with your friend that is higher rank then you but then you stomp lane against someone with higher MMR than you. I think this should be changed into how well you do at your role so that it creates a more balanced team where your team knows what their doing instead of having braindead people on your team.

Dr PoroJun 1, 20192 votes

Making matchmaking balanced for duoQ is impossible. They can't know just how much synergy or real life communication you have so they have to assume the maximum making duoQ very unfavourable if you don't. Unless with a smurf, it's better to climb soloQ.

Chromatic EagleJun 1, 20192 votes

Riot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3WPHJEDMwc

Konsequence93Jun 2, 20192 votes

the worst game i had was back in s3/4 when my main was only gold 1. i was playing my smurf around lvl 20 (when lvl was max 30)

just playing solo blind, get 4 teammates all playing solo too around lvl 20.

our enemy team?

entire premade compromised of 3 diamonds over d3, and 2 plat 2's

i beat the d1 kha mid though as yi, so i have that going for me, which is nice

SirPurrrJun 2, 20192 votes

It truly is horrifically bad at times. They need to fix it desperately but the nature of the game (over a hundred champs with unique interactions, varying balance states and in diverse team comps.) makes it exceedingly difficult. Eventually there will be too many champions for a novice to even understand the basics of how to play against them in a reasonable time-frame. Although, I think matches get A LOT better ~high Plat and worse again at the floors like D4.

Eliminating duoQ might help. Too many people duoing on lower ELO smurfs or just not getting much of a penalty because they have practiced and optimized strategies (rather than just for fun). It's no accident that tarzaned is mostly duoing when he plays on his rank 1 account. Duoing also muddies the meaning of ranked because there's no way to tell who duod to a level and who played solo. Imagine if they did this for sports like tennis and just mixed ranks.

I actually got demoted recently off a game where my top went 0 4 0 (snowball matchup vs Renekton) and my bot went 0 8 0 all without ganks and just in the first 10 minutes. It's complete BS for me to be punished for such a lopsided game. My mid and I can't 2v8 the game. This was just an autoloss and such games are at least 10% of my matchmaking. Some of it just can't be helped though when players pick random champions they don't play or in match ups/comps. where they can't function. The game itself just has so much variance built in that it's almost impossible to have a fair game every time.

Still, it might help to have more transparency about how their matchmaking works. Maybe the community can help and at the very least, it would quell worries about it being manipulated. Games are way too coinflip and it doesn't feel good on either side (less about climbing and more about match quality). We're all so dependent on matchmaking yet it's like a blackbox and that shouldn't be the case for a competitive game.

I'd also prefer a true ELO system like before instead of these artificial abstractions. I get that it makes players grind more and makes them feel more rewarded but it comes at a cost to match quality and accuracy. A Silver 1 with 80% win rate isn't the same as a Silver 1 with 50% win rate. Worst of all, people who are stuck at the floors and may have bad MMR simply don't take it seriously anymore. They'll play random champs or just give up if they lose early.

Op.gg feels necessary and so does dodging but the punishment for dodging is way too high once MMR is stabilized. -10 is a lot and so is 30 minutes. People are actually penalized for playing multiple games a day.

/rant

BTW: Here's an example of what I'm talking about (not from my own play):

https://imgur.com/a/uGrHPnS

The problem with match making is often that it thinks averaging MMRs will make a fair game. It doesn't. Averaging MMRs for each role probably gets somewhat close but just having comparable MMRs for the teams is not enough when one role is massively outmatched and creates a huge map imbalance.

It's the worst for junglers though because when you're massively higher ranked than your teammates, you can't really play the role even if the enemy jungler is ranked a lot worse. Every lane is losing and under so much pressure that it snowballs into you. You get invaded, get your jg warded, can't counter invade, can't go for scuttlers, can't do anything really.

Kai GuyJun 3, 20191 votes

Part of the issue is there's a massive amount of ignorance on the topic and players have a lot of shitty ideas about how it works.

Far to much faith in the system at high uncertainty.
Player constantly rate skill on a biases that the game does not consider remotely fking relevant.

I can go way to over the top in explaining things so heads up. If you want a wall on the topic just reply asking for more details and you will get them.

I really like MMR and Elo systems.

I dislike Riots implementation of Duo Que and the massive # of mismatched games it makes. Its a almost constant culprit in posts like this. Thou this season Positional MM and some issues/fuck ups Riot made with Positional Ques+new Tiers are in my opinion still impacting the ladder.

SirPurrrJun 3, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gnJdmE78,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2019-06-03T08:04:23.948+0000)

Part of the issue is there's a massive amount of ignorance on the topic and players have a lot of shitty ideas about how it works.

Far to much faith in the system at high uncertainty.

Player constantly rate skill on a biases that the game does not consider remotely fking relevant.

I can go way to over the top in explaining things so heads up. If you want a wall on the topic just reply asking for more details and you will get them.

I really like MMR and Elo systems.

I dislike Riots implementation of Duo Que and the massive # of mismatched games it makes. Its a almost constant culprit in posts like this. Thou this season Positional MM and some issues/fuck ups Riot made with Positional Ques+new Tiers are in my opinion still impacting the ladder.

Sure, I'm interested in thoughts on the topic.

Anyway, it has gotten better somewhat. I think it gives you slightly easier teams when autofilled for instance (although this does incentivize always switching if autofilled).

SilentBomberJun 3, 20192 votes

Laughed so hard on this!

Dope SoloJun 2, 20191 votes

https://imgur.com/a/sQf7k8V

https://imgur.com/a/Gb65gY6

mack9112Jun 2, 20191 votes

You do realize that these situations exist because toxic individuals get there accounts bannned then they make a new account crush those around them then have an inflated mmr.