Not sure why thread on fearing assassin meta over adc meta gets upvoted

Tychusfindlay918·Oct 6, 2017·88 votes·2,884 views

Because even in a supposed assassin meta ADCs still dominate bot lane. And last timewe had an assassin meta we had Running rampant and breaking lethality.

ADCs always have a use in every meta. And when it is their meta, they take the entirety of the game.

No other class has ever been able to do this.

Yes Old man teeto, I object to your silly warnings and would welcome an "Assassin" meta over the bullshit we have right now.

101 Comments

KhristophorosOct 6, 201720 votes

Because assassin meta sucks for everyone besides assassins

Just because ADC is in meta doesn't mean it's fun to play. I don't like being constantly targeted by assassins, do you? I don't even enjoy ADC in the current meta. So I probably can't enjoy it in any meta. It's always the priority target but it gets 10x worse in assassin meta, and yet you still need the ADC on the team and somebody has to play it.

Assassin meta sucks for mages. It sucks for supports. It's probably fun for bruisers though, I dunno.

KloqdqOct 6, 20173 votes

The highest priority target which can cause you to win or losing being the sole focus of a class designed to take out high priority targets.

Weird how that works.

KhristophorosOct 6, 20174 votes

{quoted}

The highest priority target which can cause you to win or losing being the sole focus of a class designed to take out high priority targets.

Weird how that works.

If you have fun actually playing that class ok. Personally I find that I have more agency playing any other class. Like if I can play a mage or assassin there's a lot of value in killing somebody who would have been able to kill or otherwise disrupt my ADC so even in this meta I'd rather play a champ like that.

KloqdqOct 6, 20173 votes

If you have fun actually playing that class ok.

I mean yeah it's fun? Lot of people like it.

Like if I can play a mage or assassin there's a lot of value in killing somebody who would have been able to kill or otherwise disrupt my ADC so even in this meta I'd rather play a champ like that.

What? The game is basically, focus the strongest member then focus ADC since they are typically the strongest member as the game goes on. Assassin as basically designed to prey on the squishy enemies and not the tanks, fighters, etc. Yeah you can kill the mage or assassin as an assassin but typically if you can knock out their ADC it's just way better.

KhristophorosOct 6, 20174 votes

{quoted}

I mean yeah it's fun? Lot of people like it.

What? The game is basically, focus the strongest member then focus ADC since they are typically the strongest member as the game goes on. Assassin as basically designed to prey on the squishy enemies and not the tanks, fighters, etc. Yeah you can kill the mage or assassin as an assassin but typically if you can knock out their ADC it's just way better.

There are a lot of good picks you can make and it's not always the ADC because ADCs tend to wait until their team engages before they commit, since that's how the class is designed.

My point is, if my champ can take out or disrupt a big threat on the other team I feel like I have a lot of agency to help my team win. If I'm playing ADC I feel like I have to wait for my team to pull off those picks or make really good engages and peel for me. I don't feel like I actually have a lot of agency as ADC because I have to wait for my team to do those things.

KloqdqOct 6, 20172 votes

You still do though. ADCs for the most part play a massive role in a team winning, even if that is hidden a lot of the time.

KhristophorosOct 7, 20173 votes

{quoted}

You still do though. ADCs for the most part play a massive role in a team winning, even if that is hidden a lot of the time.

Being important doesn't mean you have agency. You don't get to make as many calls as the other roles. Well, there's Ashe but I seriously can't play her anymore since they gutted Volley.

Critmaster GarenOct 6, 201743 votes

{quoted}

Because assassin meta sucks for everyone besides assassins

actually tanks and bruisers dont give a shit. were usually tanky enough to deal with assassins even when its an assassin meta.

its really just marksmen that make the game horrible for everyone when theyre op.

KhristophorosOct 6, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjLa8GH7,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-10-06T18:58:00.386+0000)

actually tanks and bruisers dont give a shit. were usually tanky enough to deal with assassins even when its an assassin meta.

its really just marksmen that make the game horrible for everyone when theyre op.

Assassin meta sucks for mages and supports because they make good food for assassins. I think assassin metas generally happen when assassins are strong enough to consistently pick off those classes so even if the ADC plays perfectly there are other ways for the assassin to snowball.

Tanks and bruisers might not be vulnerable to them but what can they really do about a snowballing assassin? Assassins aren't that easy to catch.

KloqdqOct 6, 20177 votes

Assassins are just ADCs with less range and more snowball. All you do is group and the assassin basically becomes worthless.

abca98Oct 6, 20179 votes

No, they are the opposite to ADC's. It's dps or burst damage. Ye, ye "burst per second" well that's not how it's supposed to be.

KloqdqOct 6, 20173 votes

No like, Assassins are just as squishy and often even squisher than an ADC since they aren't getting the support and peel of your team mates. They have a lot of burst and are inherently slippy but they can't teamfight as well as an AD or Mage and they die just as fast as any of those champions.

Yeah that have the burst and can be pretty annoying but they are far from as being as toxic as people like to label them as.

KhristophorosOct 7, 20173 votes

{quoted}

No like, Assassins are just as squishy and often even squisher than an ADC since they aren't getting the support and peel of your team mates. They have a lot of burst and are inherently slippy but they can't teamfight as well as an AD or Mage and they die just as fast as any of those champions.

Yeah that have the burst and can be pretty annoying but they are far from as being as toxic as people like to label them as.

item 3071 item 3812 "squishier than ADC"

And do you think if Zed makes an aggressive play the support will elect not to shield him? Especially if it could be a Lulu ult that hits multiple people?

Oh sorry you're not the ADC so I didn't want to win that teamfight.

CherilynOct 7, 20175 votes

item 3071 and item 3812 can make them a bit tankier than adcs since most adcs don't build these items(except for MissFortune Draven and Lucian ). But what you are forgetting here is that they need to put themselves literally into the middle of enemy team to do their job, which is blowing up the carry. And having 400 extra hp with some lifesteal doesn't help you when you are throwing youself into 5 enemies. Also it's not that supports don't want to shield the Zed or Talon , they simply won't be in range most of the time.

Why do you think shielding or Lulu ulting the assassin will lose a teamfight? Assassins have limited window of high burst but don't do that much after they throw all their spells on the enemy carry. If you protect the assassin at the cost of having your own adc die to the enemy diver/assassin, you probably won't win the teamfight.

ADCs have constants dps that can kill everyone, including the frontlines that the assassin has no chance of killing. There is a reason why every team comp needs an adc but not all team comps need a Zed .

KhristophorosOct 7, 20172 votes

{quoted}

and can make them a bit tankier than adcs since most adcs don't build these items(except for and ). But what you are forgetting here is that they need to put themselves literally into the middle of enemy team to do their job, which is blowing up the carry. And having 400 extra hp with some lifesteal doesn't help you when you are throwing youself into 5 enemies. Also it's not that supports don't want to shield the or , they simply won't be in range most of the time.

Why do you think shielding or Lulu ulting the assassin will lose a teamfight? Assassins have limited window of high burst but don't do that much after they throw all their spells on the enemy carry. If you protect the assassin at the cost of having your own adc die to the enemy diver/assassin, you probably won't win the teamfight.

ADCs have constants dps that can kill everyone, including the frontlines that the assassin has no chance of killing. There is a reason why every team comp needs an adc but not all team comps need a .

I didn't mention Death's Dance because of the lifesteal.

I mentioned Lulu ult because it can be a 5 man knockup in that situation.

You are fixating on all the wrong stuff. I shouldn't have to explain how the game works to you.

CherilynOct 8, 20171 votes

OK then you mentioned item 3812 because of the bleed passive like that's gonna help assassins substantially?

Even if Lulu gets 5 man airborne for 0.75 seconds by ulting the assassin, what's the point of that if your adc is dead and enemy adc is alive because their support actually peeled for the adc? By this point the fight is pretty much over. Their adc would have shredded through your tanks and will just kill everyone who's alive with just couple autos.

All I'm saying is smart support players will protect the adc instead of the assassin, and they are already behind a massive frontline eating up damage and peeling for them with items like item 3109 (hell I think I saw an Elise jungle get Knight's vow to protect the adc in one competitive game) and assassins are really not "tankier" or harder to kill than adcs even if it seems like it.

Bob the ToastrOct 6, 201729 votes

I think assassin metas generally happen when assassins are strong enough to consistently pick off those classes so even if the ADC plays perfectly there are other ways for the assassin to snowball.

You mean, an assassin should actually have a chance to get kills in a game? The horror.

KhristophorosOct 6, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bob the Toastr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjLa8GH7,comment-id=0001000100000002,timestamp=2017-10-06T19:21:14.512+0000)

You mean, an assassin should actually have a chance to get kills in a game? The horror.

Yeah actually assassin metas suck. You should have seen season 3. Only assassin mains defended it. The whole concept of an assassin is cancer. The game was better before they started designing assassins. You had to be better at positioning to win. Now you can pick champions with retarded mobility and damage so you don't need to learn the fundamentals of the game.

I mained Kassadin from seasons 1-3 and forgot how to play the game.

Sraeg2013Oct 6, 20173 votes

You do realize that Kassadin was and is an assassin too, right?

KhristophorosOct 7, 20178 votes

{quoted}

You do realize that Kassadin was and is an assassin too, right?

That's kinda my point. What did you read from that?

LordGeovanniOct 7, 20172 votes

I dont mind assassin doing damage but most of them having easy engages and free excapes no they should have one or the other. and most of them have some sort of targeted damage nuke why.

DeusVultOct 7, 20174 votes

Easy engage = range

Free escape = Most ADC mobility abilities

targeted nuke = AA

The only difference is that most assassins also rely on ability CDs and are melee, whereas ADCs are "ranged DPS that do as much as assassins", and with the overabundance of heal/shields/damage mitigation, they can survive even a perfect assassin all in.

Rins Thigh SocksOct 6, 201720 votes

Gee it's almost as if ADC is a blanket term used to describe a champion with ranged autoattacks and AD scalings that doesn't in the slightest describe their playstyle and certain ones are better in certain metas.

this bot lane meta isn't an "ADC" meta. It's a hypercarry meta. ADC meta implies that Draven and Lucian and Caitlyn and Varus are good too but in reality it's just hypercarries that abuse Ardent Censer (or Xayah because Rakan is so damn good).

DuskDaUmbreonOct 6, 20174 votes

Well, Draven in particular is very good right now. But I'm pretty sure that's just because either he's too strong right now, or he's a strong counter to hypercarries.

But, yeah. Most marksmen do suck ass right now. Cait is bottom of the barrel, Ezreal had to go to jungle to still be relevant, and is still below 50%, Ashe is only really viable in pro play, Lucian had to go mid to be relevant, and, just like Ezreal, is still below 50%, MF's in a bad spot, Sivir isn't doing that great, Varus kinda sucks right now, and Vayne's barely able to be considered a champion.

Rins Thigh SocksOct 6, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Well, Draven in particular is very good right now. But I'm pretty sure that's just because either he's too strong right now, or he's a strong counter to hypercarries.

But, yeah. Most marksmen do suck ass right now. Cait is bottom of the barrel, Ezreal had to go to jungle to still be relevant, and is still below 50%, Ashe is only really viable in pro play, Lucian had to go mid to be relevant, and, just like Ezreal, is still below 50%, MF's in a bad spot, Sivir isn't doing that great, Varus kinda sucks right now, and Vayne's barely able to be considered a champion.

The only reason he's good is because solo queue is chaotic enough and low elo doesn't know how to sit on their ADC.

Tyler1 himself said it Draven blows because bullying and being assertive in lane is heavily discouraged by this Relic Shield Heal/Barrier -> Ardent Censer meta and by 25 minutes if he doesn't have enough kills under his belt he's extremely useless.

I mean, in terms of absolute strength Draven is scary, but relative to the meta he's so weak it's pitiful.

AirKingNeoOct 6, 20172 votes

then why is draven not picked at all?

Ok then.

AirKingNeoOct 6, 20174 votes

People fail to remember ADCs are really just split into two sub classes that Riot doesn't recognize. Casters and Hypercarries. They both do DPS, just like an assassin and a mage both do burst, but like a caster adc, a mage is the CC variant. Just like tanks and bruisers. Tanks are the CC variant.

MarshbouyOct 7, 20179 votes

I always laugh about how 3 adcs are truly an issue in a meta, but the gameplay boards paints it as "ALL ADCS ARE BROKEN AND NEED TO BE GUTTED RIGHT NOW!!!!1111!"

CloudedLogicOct 6, 201712 votes

As far as I am concerned I have been in an assassin meta all afternoon.

JarvanIV item 3147 item 3142

Tentacle AdvisorOct 6, 20177 votes

Thank you! Honestly, I don't care what people say about this, nor do I care about the flack I'll get for it, I miss the Tank meta. It was way more feasible than this.

AirKingNeoOct 6, 20173 votes

We're in a tank meta.

Variks the LoyalOct 7, 20174 votes

We're in an ADC meta.

AirKingNeoOct 7, 20172 votes

No. Despite Riot not wanting to official recongize the difference of the two ADC classes, Caster and Hypercarry, this meta is clearly defined by Hypercarries and Tanks. Also including support powercreep in here too.

The whole circlejerk of this being an ADC meta is stupid. Maokai literally outdamages Aatrox's QWE combo by shielding some of it with CoC and using Q AA. Don't even say tanks aren't stupid right now.

There is no one less bias than me about the current meta. If otherwise, I'd like to congratulate whoever.

Variks the LoyalOct 7, 20174 votes

That's not outdamaging. That's outsustaining.

I Main SwainOct 7, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hentai Onegai,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjLa8GH7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-06T17:57:11.847+0000)

Thank you! Honestly, I don't care what people say about this, nor do I care about the flack I'll get for it, I miss the Tank meta. It was way more feasible than this.

SAME, i actually enjoy the tank meta quite a bit, and not (entirely) just because i like playing tanks. it makes games longer, fights are more interesting and at times straight up comical, teamfights are actually really cool. overall its my favorite meta.

KaeblenOct 7, 20177 votes

#Playing an ADC

deleting squishies.
deleting tanks with equal speed as squishies. (some few outliers)
melting teams and objectives alike.
and still not being fun to play, because they know they could die any second if a decent assassin showed up. (or worse yet, the other adc)
having a late game where all their weaknesses vanish, and your biggest worry is over why your life choices have led you to become so sadistic.
slave-style supports correct your every mistake.

Yep, that would be a highly cynical view of adc's. I wish it were less accurate.

ThefrostyvikingOct 7, 20172 votes

I think you´re talking about Twitch, trist and vayne.

No other marksmen do that kinda stuff.

FairyfleurOct 7, 20175 votes

Quinn isn't really an adc

Tychusfindlay918Oct 7, 20174 votes

{quoted}

isn't really an adc

That's like saying lucian isn't an adc, your point is not valid.

FairyfleurOct 7, 20175 votes

She's about the same as Zed or Talon but with ranged auto attacks.

Her kit doesn't function the same as Jhin , MissFortune , or Varus .

The Yetii RiderOct 6, 20174 votes

An assassin meta means stealth. Stealth is just obnoxious to play against. No matter what Riot does to the vision system, to the champions, to the game, stealth will never feel fair to die against.

KhristophorosOct 6, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gjLa8GH7,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-06T18:26:14.720+0000)

An assassin meta means stealth. Stealth is just obnoxious to play against. No matter what Riot does to the vision system, to the champions, to the game, stealth will never feel fair to die against.

Most assassins rely on mobility and/or very short stealth which might as well be mobility.

The Yetii RiderOct 6, 20177 votes

Most. Not all.

Shaco has a 4.5 second stealth. Evelynn is Evelynn. Rengar can stealth for 20 seconds or something crazy like that.

Sraeg2013Oct 7, 20176 votes

You forgot about Twitch

Hayaishi2Oct 7, 20174 votes

Assassin meta is horrible. I think you all forgot how dumb S3 was when it was Zed and LB farming support players the entire time. I remember Faker doing it every game, his general strategy was to get a pick on the easiest player to kill which is supports.

AirKingNeoOct 6, 20173 votes

Except the last lethality meta existed because tanks were broken and completely undamagable. You needed long range ADCs who can operate without needing to get into auto attack range.

Hence 23 turret shot tanking Naut.

Automated RivenOct 7, 20174 votes

Tanks were broken because they were bad actually. Let me explain Tanks were super bad and so they were almost never picked. Adc's who could abuse lethality became meta because lethality is super good against squishy characters. Stacking armor was always super effective against lethality but nobody picked tanks because of how bad they were. Once people started realizing that picking tanks into lethality was actually good then tanks started being "op" but that was only in an environment where they were so bad they didn't get picked.

AirKingNeoOct 7, 20171 votes

Poppy Ekko Nautilus Maokai

TANKS

NEVER

PICKED

Poppy Ekko Nautilus Maokai

AeszarckOct 7, 20171 votes

Why are you making a new discussion when you could just comment on that one? Making discussions to comment on other discussions is just silly.

Tychusfindlay918Oct 7, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Why are you making a new discussion when you could just comment on that one? Making discussions to comment on other discussions is just silly.

It's not silly, because comments go down in hell and never get seen, but threads don't go unnoticed as easily, as you can see here.

Use ya brain.