"Mages have been dominating mid for many years now"

koshkyra·Apr 19, 2018·132 votes·21,409 views

But its ok for ADC to be the only viable option in bot for the entire existence of the game k lmao

148 Comments

ModWulf HelhammerApr 19, 201832 votes

If people want ADCs to not be the only class in bot lane, then they have to be ok with ADCs playing in other lanes. Because currently, people throw a tantrum the second an ADC becomes mildly viable in another lane, even if they aren't actually doing that well there.

######(EDIT: a line from another comment further down) I'm fine if Riot wants to move other classes into bot lane. Sure, whatever. But what that means is that ADCs have to be able to play other lanes, AND people have to not explode with crying for nerfs when they do that.

robotmasterApr 20, 20187 votes

Hahahaha Lucian Vayne Kaisa your not wrong.

ModWulf HelhammerApr 20, 20187 votes

Lucian: Not only was he barely played mid, people still complained, and he was kicked out with nerfs.

Vayne: Has never been meta anywhere outside of bot lane. Ever.

Kai'Sa: Calls for nerfs to her are only slightly less then the calls to nerf ADCs as a whole. Also, she's not played in other roles in any statistical amount.

PercentagesApr 20, 20187 votes

I think because when an ADC goes to another lane they get crushed, rare is the time where an ADC going top has worked out and it sucks late game because... you have no tank... Whats Lucian going to do to a Renekton or a Nasus late game? I'd much rather have a tank than multiple ADCs... A team full of squishies doesn't seem ideal...

ModWulf HelhammerApr 20, 20186 votes

That's precisely my point. ADCs don't work in other lanes, through a combination of nerfs to prevent it, and just their general play style.

So when everyone is wanting ADCs out of bot lane, and Riot has said they are working on making that happen, where does that leave ADCs?

PercentagesApr 20, 201813 votes

I don't WANT a Lucian or whatever to be able to dominate multiple lanes. They already dominate one lane, you want them to dominate everywhere else as well? It's not fair for melee champions to have to deal with a ranged champion that can murder you from afar without ever risking damage or having to trade, that is my point. Melee champions would become a thing of the past (even more so than they are now) and it would just be a team of 5 ADCs... Even if a melee champ has a gap closer, all the ADCs that are played have one of their own, so at no point are they ever at risk of having a bad trade, whereas the melee has to decide wether or not to take a whole combo for trying to last hit a minion...

DestructoDaveApr 20, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I don't WANT a Lucian or whatever to be able to dominate multiple lanes. They already dominate one lane, you want them to dominate everywhere else as well? It's not fair for melee champions to have to deal with a ranged champion that can murder you from afar without ever risking damage or having to trade, that is my point. Melee champions would become a thing of the past (even more so than they are now) and it would just be a team of 5 ADCs... Even if a melee champ has a gap closer, all the ADCs that are played have one of their own, so at no point are they ever at risk of having a bad trade, whereas the melee has to decide wether or not to take a whole combo for trying to last hit a minion...

Lucian doesnt dominate any lane. Hes one of the worst ADCs you can take botlane.

PercentagesApr 20, 201810 votes

You dodged my whole point by focusing on the name Lucian...

ModWulf HelhammerApr 20, 20188 votes

Riot has explicitly stated they want to bring more champions into bot lane.

And you have just illustrated my point in people not wanting ADCs in any other position.

So I ask again: If ADCs aren't supposed to go anywhere but bot lane, but are getting kicked out of bot lane, where the hell are they going to go?

Dope SoloApr 20, 201810 votes

Riot talks a lot but doesn't think very far ahead about the consequences of their actions.

PercentagesApr 20, 20183 votes

One of two things is going to happen if they pursue this course of B.S. Either they are going to nerf other champs even more so the ADC can safely dominate every single lane, or they are going to buff ADCs to be strong enough to wipe the floor with EVERYONE... Why all the focus on an already OP group of champions. Like they say about education, "You don't lower the bar of excellence so everyone can meet it, rather you lift them up so they can meet it." I cannot stand the lack of diversity in the LCS. It's extremely boring. If ADCs set the bar, then others should be brought up close to it. The current mindset of "EVERYONE PEEL FOR THE ADC SO HE CAN 1V5 THEM!" is getting old. Other champions would like a chance to shine as well...

Lady HammerlockApr 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Hahahaha your not wrong.

You're forgetting Quinn and Corki

remakoroApr 20, 201833 votes

Sooo having games without adc is not an option? There are games without assasins, without mages, without healers and so on. But god forbid you to have a game without adc? At least put him somewhere. Mid, jungler (we have several jungling adcs take your pick), or even top ffs.

Nice.

NemeBroApr 20, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Sooo having games without adc is not an option?

No one said that. You might want to learn how to read my friend.

ADCs shouldn't be the only viable picks bot, but nor should that necessarily be the only place they can go. That doesn't imply that every team should necessarily need an ADC.

remakoroApr 20, 20189 votes

He said that. You might want to learn how to read, my friend.

He just said - if you dont want to see adc on bot deal with the fact that they might be anywhere else (not like it isnt like that atm or wasnt like that for several seasons. twitch jungle and quinn top really aint new at all)

CleverCactusApr 20, 201829 votes

ADC's not being the only class in bot != ADC's being in other lanes

Enchanters aren't the only class in support, but enchanters aren't in other lanes. Having a single champion class required in every game should have been looked into a long time ago.

ModWulf HelhammerApr 20, 201810 votes

**Because currently, people throw a tantrum the second an ADC becomes mildly viable in another lane, **

Literally, my entire point of the comment.

Does no one actually read it?

I'm fine if Riot wants to move other classes into bot lane. Sure, whatever. But what that means is that ADCs have to be able to play other lanes, AND people have to not explode with crying for nerfs when they do that.

Do you know why ADCs are the only class down there? It's because they've been forced out of everywhere else, because everyone always cries out "ADCS ONLY GO BOT LANE RITO WTF!?!??!!11?!"

CyberBaltApr 20, 201822 votes

You've got it backwards. ADCs are already mandatory bot lane, so of course people are going to be mad if they get played elsewhere; two adcs in a single team, when one of them is already mandatory? That would be plain ridiculous.

And I don't understand why adcs sharing their lane means they HAVE to get to play other lanes. Surprise, juggernauts have to share their lane, and they don't get to go anywhere but top.

FrostQueensPlaneApr 20, 201824 votes

You're delusional. This is like revisionist history at it's finest with a massive dose of willful ignorance.

SephAgroApr 20, 20188 votes

Its called damage control and its indicative of how fucked up things are right now that they literally have to backflip forwards to argue

KetiApr 20, 20184 votes

Nice supporting arguments

GibberwattApr 20, 20183 votes

I know, right? I bet Krol's disappointment is immeasurable and his day is ruined.

NemeBroApr 20, 20186 votes

{quoted}

ADC's not being the only class in bot != ADC's being in other lanes

Enchanters aren't the only class in support, but enchanters aren't in other lanes. Having a single champion class required in every game should have been looked into a long time ago.

Karma Zilean Ivern

3TWarriorApr 20, 201812 votes

except zilean is a hybrid zoning mage, burst mage and i'm not even sure what to call his ultimate, given that it REQUIRES the target to fall to function as a heal

and his E supports escapes and engages more than typical enchanter spells of heal or shields or number buffs

combine that with his passive to give a very, very brief level lead against the opponent and he is a hybrid of:

a lane bully, a situational enchanter, a zone mage, a burst mage, a poke mage, he has hard CC, and he can even peel with his E

yet despite all of that, he is balanced, lol XD so it kind of mutes his versatility

rtbf221651412Apr 20, 20182 votes

{quoted}

CleverCactusApr 20, 20184 votes

Morgana, Orianna, Lux, and Kayle are not enchanters. Lulu hasn't gone anywhere but support for a long time.

TerozuApr 20, 20181 votes

Umm no theyre enchanters. Shields and cc. What did you think they were?

CleverCactusApr 20, 20183 votes

Morgana is classified as a catcher, same as Blitzcrank and Bard. If all it takes to be an enchanter is a heal or a shield, you have to count a lot more champions.

TerozuApr 20, 20181 votes

Teammate shields.

And Jhin is also a catcher. They specifically said not everyone falls squarely into boxes.

CleverCactusApr 21, 20184 votes

"Teammate shields"

So Lee Sin, Thresh, and Shen are enchanters. Mordekaiser also has the largest ally-targeted heal in the game if you want to make heals a requirement.

Yes Jhin is also secondarily a Catcher, just like Varus secondarily is also an Artillery, and Taric aside from being an enchanter is a Warden.

MogarlApr 20, 20185 votes

Corki Graves Kindred Quinn

Mafia LeBlancApr 20, 201821 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gj9BpLHd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-19T23:42:10.079+0000)

If people want ADCs to not be the only class in bot lane, then they have to be ok with ADCs playing in other lanes. Because currently, people throw a tantrum the second an ADC becomes mildly viable in another lane, even if they aren't actually doing that well there.

######(EDIT: a line from another comment further down) I'm fine if Riot wants to move other classes into bot lane. Sure, whatever. But what that means is that ADCs have to be able to play other lanes, AND people have to not explode with crying for nerfs when they do that.

Nobody throws a tantrum over adc's in other lanes. ADC jg mid and top are all common and accepted. But picking anything other than ADC bot lane is asking for an automatic report and a thrown match.

ModWulf HelhammerApr 20, 20187 votes

They really aren't. At all.

Most of the time, people want some kind of tank or fighter in top lane or jungle, and an AP champion in mid.

Dark NephthysApr 20, 201819 votes

[{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gj9BpLHd,comment-id=000100040000,timestamp=2018-04-20T03:26:04.051+0000)

They really aren't. At all.

Most of the time, people want some kind of tank or fighter in top lane or jungle, and an AP champion in mid.

That's because when you generally put an ADC in other lanes it usually messes up the team composition. Though I get what you are saying though but it does depend on how your team comps look.

Generally the reason why people complain about ADCs being played top lane is the annoying Ranged abusing melee...And I'll be honest that I'd complain about that to if I were facing people like Vayne or Lucian top when I'm a tank that can't really do much into it, and it's why I HATE Quinn...

Jungle I have no problem when ADCs are generally played there, as long as it's not Twitch and his constant stealth ganks...But I have no problem with Kindred or Graves being played there.

Mid lane actually does have a meta ADC played there and that's Corki since it works perfectly as he still does mostly magic damage so playing him mid will still give you that massive magic damage threat. While other ADCs being played mid will just make it easy to counter-build for the team since you would have a full AD team and not to many mages are really viable top lane (mainly Swain/Teemo/Vlad) which is also one of the reasons why AD Assassins aren't played Mid as much as well...WHICH could be fixed a bit if Non-ADCs go bot lane.

Supports did have a phase where they were ADCs, like Ashe MissFortune . I don't really know what exactly happened with those 2 being in support. I never had a problem with Ashe support and she made sense, but I would guess that people complained about MF almost 1 shotting people at level 6 with only item 3303 .

Personally I like the idea of Non-ADCs having a chance to be played bot lane and wonder how they'll do it. We already know 1 champion they are pushing for it and that is Kennen who has had good success and was played bot lane in pro play a decent amount.

ShaolinToiletApr 20, 20188 votes

No one remembers just a little while ago when 44pct winrate mid Lucian was constantly complained about on the boards

HarrowRApr 20, 20183 votes

They are trying to silence you,the truth will come out!

ChíckenDaddyApr 20, 20184 votes

My team when I play Quinn top would like to disagree. [zombie-nunu-bummed]

AzadetheApr 20, 20184 votes

You do realize that for adcs to be viable in other lanes, they have to be EXCEPTIONAL in bot lane?

P.S. There's a reason Ezreal is getting tons of mid play: in 1v1 he's brutally hard to play against, especially after the Manaflow Band Change. Now he doesn't even need a item 3004 . He can literally go item 3147 and just dominate any mid in the game because they can't out cs him, and because they can't get close enough 1v1 to kill him while taking Duskblade damage procs.

All because Manaflow Band gives him back more mana than he consumes.

ModWulf HelhammerApr 20, 20188 votes

Lucian was at the bottom of the ADC tier list when he tried a stint mid.

Corki hasn't been a bot lane ADC in over a season.

Kai'Sa only played jungle when she was sucking everywhere.

Quinn isn't touched as an ADC, neither is Graves or Quinn.

So that leaves Vayne, Twitch, and Ezreal. The non bot lane roles for the former two are incredibly off-meta, if they could even be considered that.

And Ezreal breaks everything. Always has, be that AD or AP (remember runeglaive Ezreal mid?) Also, he isn't getting tons of play mid.

KarunamonApr 20, 201824 votes

[{quoted}](name=Some Rioter,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gj9BpLHd,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-04-20T14:08:11.071+0000)We don't enforce meta

>What is position select in draft >What is autofill >What is locking items behind smite >What is banning players who play strangely but still win (which shouldn't happen anymore but still) >What are gold income items >What is nerfing or buffing champions so they do or don't wind up in specific lanes

Sorry, that is the exact fucking definition of enforcing a meta. I played this game before the jungle role was even a thing, and the usual comp was 2 top.

UpDownLeftRightABApr 20, 20187 votes

Before season 1, they didn't enforce meta. It was nice, but there were still ADCs but they were not the 2 item powerhouses that we have today.

ProtoMMXVIIApr 21, 20181 votes

Hey, since you've been playing before then, just an offtopic question, when did people start going jungle? Did jungle items exist back then at all, or smite?

When those items starting existing, when did it become clear that having a jungler was much better than have two toplaners?

Spank the FoxApr 21, 20183 votes

Cloth and 4 pots at one stage.

90% sure in Season 2 it was Boots + 3 potions because that was staple on almost everyone.

Back then, mid lane would leash Blue Buff (always Blue start) by hitting it first from over the wall and walking back in forth, forcing the buff to do this weird dance while jungler took it down while tanking almost no damage.

The meta as we know it formed in late S1 - ADC+Supp bot, Mage Mid, mandatory jungler.

TheUnnamedSoundApr 22, 20181 votes

But you can't forget about Warwick starting with vampiric scepter and needing no leash.

remakoroApr 21, 20183 votes

i had several games - around 10-20 in normals and couple in ranked, where i fucked up and forgot that im jungle or went as second top on purpose. Therefore forcing us to play without jungler. Dont remember losing even single one of those games. So for me its questionable how bad second top compared to having jungler. Even today.

NaturesMayhemApr 21, 20181 votes

Yeah, I've seen several fiasco of odd, maybe even trolling supports, THAT WORKED, but people got banned and came and made a fuss about it on the boards. One that stands out is the Singed Support post about the guy who got banned for you know, going singed support.