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Anybody else feel like top lane is going to turn into the Sanguine Blade rush lane?

WoonStruck··36 votes·15,642 views

I have a feeling its going to happen.

For those of you that don't know its an item coming in the preseason. 3000g for:

Stats +50 attack damage +15% life steal Passive UNIQUE: +18 Lethality (11.2 − 18 (based on level) armor penetration) UNIQUE – UNQUENCHED: While near one or fewer visible enemy champions gain 50% − 120% (based on level) bonus attack speed, decaying over 3 >seconds if other enemy champions get too close.

Its 132.25% gold efficient at level 1, and 190.58% gold efficient at level 18, making it the single largest stat-stick in the game outside of the Mejai's item line. There's also very little risk to it, considering its still a 'fully functional' lethality item in teamfights, at 5-15% higher efficiency than the other items.

One thing to note is that the Lethality was set to 10 with the lethality set bonuses being added, but on their removal, the 8 missing lethality was noted to have been added to the UNQUENCHED passive, rather than its base stats. I am unsure if this has changed officially yet.

This also allows champions like Fiora to go for Titanic Hydra, rather than Ravenous Hydra. Expect champions that build Ravenous to end up a hell of a lot tankier and hurt a hell of a lot more at 3 items.

100 Comments

5050BS7 votes

It is so good on any champ that gets some damage from auto attacks. Its stupid.

Conqueror + Ravenous Hunter + Sanguine Blade = 45% Life Steal (30% from all damage)

WoonStruck9 votes

Let's not forget Death's Dance for some damage reduction heading into tank items.

Its gunna be Wriggle's Lantern all over again.

Z3SIeeper1 votes

Wait a second... Speaking of Wriggle's this thing works in the jungle no?

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

Wait a second... Speaking of Wriggle's this thing works in the jungle no?

Yes. Only champions disable it so far.

If they want it used properly, it should probably just activate around enemy structures.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

It is so good on any champ that gets some damage from auto attacks. Its stupid.

Conqueror + Ravenous Hunter + Sanguine Blade = 45% Life Steal (30% from all damage)

Conqueror and Ravenous are Omnivamp btw.

Difference between Lifesteal and Omnivamp is as follows

  • Lifesteal heals only from physical damage dealt by basic attacks.

  • Omnivamp heals from all sources of damage (Physical, Magic and True) as well as on-hit effects.

WoonStruck7 votes

He literally said that.

45% (effective) lifesteal (30% from all damage [omnivamp])

Sire Hippington1 votes

Ravenous isn't omnivamp, it's spell vamp, so it doesn't heal from AAs or on-hit useing skills nor from on-hit effects. So in the end, it's 15% omni, 15%lifesteal, 15% spellvamp. still plenty sustain though, and with potentially 12% lifesteal from bloodline aswell.

WoonStruck3 votes

It specifically states on-hits. Just not auto attacks.

Crescent Dusk3 votes

{quoted}

It is so good on any champ that gets some damage from auto attacks. Its stupid.

Conqueror + Ravenous Hunter + Sanguine Blade = 45% Life Steal (30% from all damage)

lol Yasuo will be so busted with this item, and so will Jax and Tryndamere as well as Kled. Irelia too, just what we needed.

WoonStruck1 votes

AFAIK, from what I've heard, things like Garen E, Senna Q, Yasuo Q, etc don't scale with indirect stats granted by items.

Crescent Dusk4 votes

{quoted}

AFAIK, from what I've heard, things like Garen E, Senna Q, Yasuo Q, etc don't scale with indirect stats granted by items.

It's not the Q I'm worried about, since static shiv alone already reduces his Q to a measly 2 sec cd he can spam.

It's the fact his crit boosted autoattacks get sped up as well.

5050BS2 votes

On the PBE I have been abusing Mordekaiser with this item. Yes MORD.

First item item 3115 then Sanguine Blade.

I Ult someone and win ALL fights that they cant keep away from me. I mean ALL fights. Jax Tryndamere Yasuo Udyr Ekko Fiora Diana Garen

If that try and fight me I win.

Doopliss71 votes

people saying the item is broken but all you need is to group up or stay next to minions to make it worthless. but on morde with his ult you can take full advantage of its passive, sounds nice except its an ad lethality item instead of ap or hp or mpen.

5050BS1 votes

Thats why you get item 3115 so your AP per auto is even more so.

I Ran item 3115 Sanguine Bladeitem 3157 item 3165 or item 3146 item 3065 + Boots

RebeccaUCuber7 votes

It seems more like a duelist item... it confuses me a little bit cos this item just give too much things: -ad -15% lifesteal is a lot -atk speed if 1v1 but decaying if too close. -Lethality

I dont like this item...it doesn't seem an assassin item but more a duelist/harasser type. A lol of assassin rely more on abilities, so the atk speed is not needed, but the lifesteal means that if an assassin is jungling he can just go back in jung and come back to gank you over and over. The idea of an oppressive top/jung item is very fixed in my mind...i'm just thinking about Fiora/quinn/jayce/darius with this...they just refill hp and u keep being bullied forever....

It seems really too much, hope thet change it a bit. Harassment should be punishable in some sort, but that lifesteal...i think its the biggest problem here and should be removed.

WoonStruck4 votes

I don't think Darius will be able to get away with it, tbh. At least not rushing it.

He'll fall off a cliff in teamfights/ganks that way.

Either way, Darius is one of the champs that will likely be able to deal with it regardless of his itemization, provided he's not behind.

Illabethe1 votes

Darius + Ghost he will murder lane with Sanguine.

WoonStruck4 votes

Darius+Ghost murders a lot of match-ups regardless of itemization.

Smyrage4 votes

{quoted}

It seems more like a duelist item... it confuses me a little bit cos this item just give too much things: -ad -15% lifesteal is a lot -atk speed if 1v1 but decaying if too close. -Lethality

I dont like this item...it doesn't seem an assassin item but more a duelist/harasser type. A lol of assassin rely more on abilities, so the atk speed is not needed, but the lifesteal means that if an assassin is jungling he can just go back in jung and come back to gank you over and over. The idea of an oppressive top/jung item is very fixed in my mind...i'm just thinking about Fiora/quinn/jayce/darius with this...they just refill hp and u keep being bullied forever....

It seems really too much, hope thet change it a bit. Harassment should be punishable in some sort, but that lifesteal...i think its the biggest problem here and should be removed.

Nocturne Shaco

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

RekSai Rengar (?)

ZackTheWaffleMan1 votes

RekSai Rengar (?)

AdamrCc5 votes

Laughs in Jax.

D357R0Y3R5 votes

50 ad 15% lifesteal 50-120 attack speed?

Jax Irelia oh no

Doopliss71 votes

Jax laughs in counter strike, Jax Irelia laughs while staying next to ally minions

PhearBunny4 votes

I OTP Noc top, if my lane opponent isnt running ignite, this will probably be my first item in most scenarios. whats the CD on the steroid?

WoonStruck5 votes

No listed CD. Just being out of range of 2+ champions, like Kha'Zix isolate. Decays over 3 when entering the range of 2+ champions, likely instantly recharges when out of range.

Sire Hippington2 votes

no cd, it's passive, only requirement is that there is no more than 1 visible enemy champion in 1200(?) range or so.

Romans VI XXIII4 votes

Yes, depending if the passive works with Garen E AS scaling. I'm assuming it will since it's coming from an item. only time will tell.

Sire Hippington4 votes

Yea, pretty sure that's what's going to happen...or atleast that's what i gonna do

Also, expect quinn and other ranged ADs to become high prio, that shit has no drawbacks on ranged.

Though some tanks and juggers might be able to rush item 3076 and deal with it.

R0ses R Red3 votes

Yes and no. It gives no HP, thus making its users weak against burst and easy to pressure(this includes off waves). I do believe it will 100% be a problem though because there are champions who can mitigate its HP issue through their trading patterns. Kled, Renekton, Kennen, Pantheon, Camille, Irelia, and _maybe _Riven. The common theme between these champions is that they all have an easy time initiating one-sided trades. Who cares if your enemy has 250 more HP than you when your one-sided trades leave you unscathed? You taking a single successful/one-sided trade with this item essentially means it then has more worth than any HP item BECAUSE that item's HP is now gone while you still have your lifesteal and strong all in.

Renekton's usage of this item worries me most of all. Due to how his trading pattern works, an unfed Renek can take 30%+ your HP without giving you a window to respond. As of now, he dashes away like a coward after making these one-sided trades. That's because he has nothing left after that. BUT with this item, not only would he do more DMG while you're stunned thanks to lethality and attack-speed, he'd also be able to trade autos such as a Tryndamere, Irelia, or Kled does.

Maybe Garen is also a monstrosity with this item, idk, but it seems to have positive synergy with him. Attack speed strengthens his spin, innate tankiness means lifesteal is more effective, and his passive regeneration allows him to recover even if he isn't allowed to lifesteal off of waves.

xelaker5 votes

you don't need health if you smash the other person to death...

Spooky Skeleton3 votes

Did assassins and fighters really need more help? The fuck is this game coming to.

Need Gold 4 Tent3 votes

bruisers yes, but assassins did not need tools to match fighters in their niche of sustained damage 1v1's when they already outperform them in burst.

even so, this is too strong even for bruisers who do need help the coming preseason with the removal of conqueror true damage.

AdamrCc2 votes

Agree. Bruisers are getting some hard nerfs the coming season.

I'm more worried about skirmishers like Jax, Tryndamere, and Irelia picking this up than I am about a Zed pushing a side lane.

3TWarrior1 votes

Olaf behold, I am lategame with but this one item!

XD every stat on it he adores and slap on the attack speed boost rune and boom, you've got WAY too much attack speed to be outdueled unless you're jax

Pika Fox2 votes

I dont like lethality being paired with AS, as a weakness of assassins as an archetype is supposed to be limited DPS potential. This item will either be stupidly good, or really bad as a result.

I DO like the idea of the 1 enemy nearby restriction and think thats a neat area to explore. It might be more effective to lower the power budget and make it two or less, as the typical assassin target is the adc, who usually has a friendly nearby. One feels more duelist specific.

That being said; this does give interesting ideas for yi and jax for jungling, and maybe mid lane adcs.

I like the overall idea of the item, the stats im reserved about.

Also of note; the item loses almost all efficiency as the game goes on on an assassin, as teamfights become more common.

WoonStruck3 votes

Its an item targeted at split pushing specifically, not assassinating.

The lethality lets you do significant damage to towers with the attack speed and AD.

Remember, Nocturne and Zed were known splitpushers for a while because not many could 1v1 them with their builds at the time, and they could easily get to teamfights.

Illabethe1 votes

Because you can life steal turrets.

Its #1 users atm are Tryndamere and Senna For 1v1 assassinations.

WoonStruck2 votes

Since when can you lifesteal off of structures? Did they change something I missed?

And senna isn't a 1v1 assassin, sorry to break it to you.

Illabethe1 votes

The first part was sarcasm.

The second part: Senna can get up to 1100 range+ in a game. She's often far enough from allies to proc it. Go watch Bunny play with it. He intentionally stayed away from his team to rack up 60 kills in that game.

She is a Lethality builder. She is a life steal and AD builder. The attack speed works fine for most of the game. Especially if she's AD. She has assassin-like potential with a Duskblade + her E, btw. As well as Dark Harvest.

WoonStruck2 votes

{quoted}

The first part was sarcasm.

Kinda hard to read through text lol

The second part: Senna can get up to 1100 range+ in a game. She's often far enough from allies to proc it. Go watch Bunny play with it. He intentionally stayed away from his team to rack up 60 kills in that game.

The most range Senna is going to realistically get is about 775 range. That's 7 stack intervals, or 140 mist. Where are you reliably getting your stacks from throughout the game when you DON'T have a massive lead and can't spam attacks on people safely?

She is a Lethality builder. She is a life steal and AD builder. The attack speed works fine for most of the game. Especially if she's AD. She has assassin-like potential with a Duskblade + her E, btw. As well as Dark Harvest.

How is she going to lifesteal when she dies when anyone gets on her because you aren't building any attack speed, so you're a sitting duck during your animations and can't really kite well? 775 range is not THAT much, and in a lot of cases, you probably won't even be that. Building Edge of Night will give you more EHP than itemizing lifesteal in most fights because she gets blown the fuck up the moment she starts dropping HP. Oh do you want to talk about her 7 stack intervals giving her free lifesteal now? That whopping...2% lifesteal? 7% at the next interval?

She doesn't have assassin-like potential any more than Xerath would, btw. Dark Harvest is only going to be good when you have a lead. She's not going to be reliable with it. Do you see Xerath going dark harvest every game? He has a similar gameplay pattern overall: poking from outside of the fight. In what way is she going to be a better, safer damage dealer than Xerath? Her E? That's more supportive. It doesn't help her deal damage. And overall, she's going to be dealing less damage than xerath. What makes her stand out then? Her supportive abilities. You know, what you should be focusing on because other champions do what you're suggesting she's meant for better.

Illabethe1 votes

  1. item 3094 .

  2. If a game is drawn out to 40 or 50, she will have 120+ stacks whether losing or winning.

  3. That's what W is for. You W > Auto > Q and generally someone is in a kill me status. For advanced players, they will E to bait, W someone who chases, Q/auto from within the shroud to proc Duskblade, go Camo again, and proc Duskblade a second time.

Senna can survive a near full map chase.

P.S. Senna with a RFC and 7 Intervals = 135% Crit = 100% Crit + 10.2% Life steal = 25.2% with a Sanguine. (Q also applies life steal; late game it can nearly 100% heal her with 25% Life steal)

Senna has a Resetting heal which only needs some target to attack. A Turret (even own). Ally. Enemy. Minion. Doesn't matter. With 30% CDR, she can use Q every 2-3 seconds in a fight, and it scales with AD AND Life steal.

Watch the damn video. Forget that it's a Cloud9 member playing PBE. He legit Pentakills TWICE with only moderate assistance from a support. At least 4 times he 10% to 100% heals himself. And in the same game, the other team DOES gang kill him 3-4 times and outplay him. So, it's not like they were COMPLETE nubs.

WoonStruck1 votes
  1. item 3094 .

Touche

  1. If a game is drawn out to 40 or 50, she will have 120+ stacks whether losing or winning.

Yes, I was assuming ~140 at ~30 minutes. Most games end pretty shortly after that because baron/elder are forced, inhibitors are likely down somewhere. Not only that, but usually one of the sides has hard enough engage or even just pick potential to make a pick. I don't consider a 40-50 minute game within reason, just saying. They are an outlier in this meta.

  1. That's what W is for. You W > Auto > Q and generally someone is in a kill me status. For advanced players, they will E to bait, W someone who chases, Q/auto from within the shroud to proc Duskblade, go Camo again, and proc Duskblade a second time.

What about teams that actually have engage?

Senna can survive a near full map chase.

Doubt she can survive Skarner, rammus, etc chasing her.

Senna has a Resetting heal which only needs some target to attack. A Turret (even own). Ally. Enemy. Minion. Doesn't matter. With 30% CDR, she can use Q every 2-3 seconds in a fight, and it scales with AD AND Life steal.

You just suggested she can attack 6-7 times in 2-3 seconds.

Watch the damn video. Forget that it's a Cloud9 member playing PBE. He legit Pentakills TWICE with only moderate assistance from a support. At least 4 times he 10% to 100% heals himself. And in the same game, the other team DOES gang kill him 3-4 times and outplay him. So, it's not like they were COMPLETE nubs.

He literally plays with players much worse than him and asks them to do some stuff. Its basically scripted at that point. Same shit RedMercy does. Him pulling something off on PBE will not translate to live servers much if at all.

Illabethe1 votes

  1. If you follow my posts, I've called her generally bipolar. Ie .... either she gets far ahead, or gets delayed. Delays do happen and games get prolonged.

  2. That's what your team is for. Just because you have solo equip, doesn't mean you can't fight a team fight from a side angle away from your team, as long as you have flash.

  3. W counters Skarner and Rammus hard.....

  4. I suggested on CDR, it drops to about a 6-7 second cooldown, and resets her auto. Q > Auto = a 5 second remainder cooldown. 1 more auto will put it down to 3 seconds by the time it executes.

  5. he asks them not to surrender. That's all. He asks his teams to leave him kills. That happens in high elo too.

And in some games it will transfer, because these types of players always have smurfs at lower elo (I've played with Redmercy, Glacierr, Bunnz, Annie Bot all in Silver elo) It also "generally" transfers because even a bad player in same elo pvp will snowball, simulating what they do to a lesser degree. Maybe not every game. But a good chunk of them.

boricCentaur11 votes

Probably not. Maybe jax but not champions like fiora she auto attacks but most of her power is from her passive and q, most tops really don't get much use out of attack speed and basically none of them want lethality like that is just a wasted stat. Most tops want high ad and items that give survivability.

It sounds good on paper but it's not actually that good once you think about it, it's not.

floo1 votes

Doesnt it make them super vulnerable to ganks though? You lose all the stat boni from it's passive and are left with ad lethality and some lifesteal.

WoonStruck4 votes

Its not 'super' vulnerable to ganks because its still basically gold efficient. Its the same as any other time you're split pushing without it, basically.

Over extend without wards and you're probably going to die unless absurdly fed. Due to the lifesteal on the item, the chances of you surviving a 1v2 are actually a bit higher than normal. The amount of effective HP any form of sustain can add can swing a lot of outcomes unless perfectly executed against.

floo1 votes

The EHP of lifesteal can easily be cut in half with any kind or grievous wounds. Also I'm not sure how much any bruiser benefits from lethality more than say hp especially for ganks, ms, defenses, tiamat waveclear etc. Remains to be seen but I don't think it's gonna break top except low elo cheese picks.

Illabethe2 votes

The problem is GW is generally an item 2 or 3. Sanguine is an item 1.

floo1 votes

item 3076 makes it a 50 AD item with an attackspeed bonus. When ganked they lack any kind of mobility or defenses from item 3044 item 3077 or any def item that toplaners build. That's 1k gold.

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