Between all the invincibility ults, the tankier champions that have more CC than him, recent nerfs to his core item 
, and even riot saying the floating sword is thematically confusing to his kit, he feels virtually pointless to play now. You can do so much better with champions that are about 80 times easier to play.
redniwediS29 votesI just want them to merge the one thing that made AP Shen fun into his tanky build by giving his ult a health ratio instead of an AP ratio.
EmollientNut026 votesHis kit has absolutely NO continuity now. 2 AP ratios, a scaling health ratio, and a non-ratio on a champ based entirely on autoattacks. Is there any question why he's in the state he's in?
AlwaysByMySide5 votesHis kit has absolutely NO continuity now. 2 AP ratios, a scaling health ratio, and a non-ratio on a champ based entirely on autoattacks. Is there any question why he's in the state he's in?
What state is that?
Being balanced?
Oh, poor Shen players, having to play a balanced champion...
FantasySniper31 votesHe's actually incredibly clunky, and the only reason why he's doing okay is because of his high numbers.
PDE5 Inhib14 votesSo is clunky the new buzzword?
FantasySniper8 votesIt's been in use for quite a while, but of course you would see it more often when a bunch of new changes are coming out. I think the first time I saw it used was when people were discussing champions like Galio, Urgot, and Morg on the old forums.
MrWasjig4 votesHe's actually incredibly clunky
Can attest to this. Shadow Dash misses a good majority of the time even though I basically headbutt the target. Previously you only had to brush their lapels to land the taunt.
I started really getting into Shen about 2 months before his rework came by...then when it hit I just gave up.
For how hard it is to land (Or more so, how unreliable it is), Shadow Dash really doesn't provide much reward. 1.5 Second Taunt at all levels... T_T
Even Rammus's taunt provides a longer duration at just level 3 and is way easier to land cuz...click. Even at a shorter range it's still easier to land.
tidegate2 votesI feel very similarly to you. I also started playing shen right before the rework, I was really exited for it. I mained him after the rework for 20-30 games straight and I do have a 70% winrate but damn, he really just isn't fun. His damage is honestly too good at early levels and if you go titanic it scales well. As a tank he exhibits good if not overpowered stats if you win lane but if you miss e, even once, you're absolutely useless. It's way too hard to hit and oh yah, I got good at it, but if you miss even once you just can't do anything for your team. His ult shield is way too low too, I can't even count the times I've played shen and the person you ult still gets annihilated. It's taught me that the best way to counter his ult is to kill the person he's ulting. Sometimes it's more beneficial to ult a tank just to make sure you get in the fight.
MrWasjig1 votesLet's not forget his dodge field is way awkward to position properly, and expediently because of the sword's travel time.
Poppy does a better job as a defensive tank than Shen, has easier to land damage and CC, and easier to position defensive abilities.
Dextix LT8 votesSo wait a minute? He wasnt balanced before? Dafuq are you smoking brah?
He is not balanced, he is underpowered. So many picks are simply better than him.
The only reason i want to play with him is because i like him not because hes actually strong.
Hell, his supporting is better than his top laning!
AlwaysByMySide6 votes[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gijtyrYP,comment-id=0002000000000001,timestamp=2016-05-08T21:32:26.915+0000)
So wait a minute? He wasnt balanced before? Dafuq are you smoking brah?
No, he was pretty balanced.
He is not balanced, he is underpowered. So many picks are simply better than him.
Based on what is he underpowered? Certainly not the statistics since the rework. He's maintained a solid performance since, with only a slight dip in this most recent patch due to sunfire cape being nerfed.
The only reason i want to play with him is because i like him not because hes actually strong.
Hell, his supporting is better than his top laning!
Lol, no it's not.
Dextix LT9 votesHe is not overpowered, he is underpowered, compared to his previous form. Previously he was a durable and sustainable laner that posed a threat. The only really useless skill he had was his shield.
Currently, his whole kit relies on a gimmick. And i dont like that. It is the same what was done with gp. All of his power is tied to a single gimmick.
He lost his poke, he lost his sustain, and, he lost his damage. Now it all relies on his q, one skill. Thats is his whole kit, that one skill that he needs to hit or lose.
The only reason he is still used is his ultimate, nothing else. There are far better, more agressive and more damaging tanks than shen.
He is not trash tier, he is playable. However, his power just is not there. And the power that he has, is tied to a gimmick, that makes no thematic or logical sense.
Also yes, he is far better support than a top. It was a matter of a few changes. Paper towers prevented him from using his ultimate becaue then the tower dies. His shit scalings but good bases allows him to be a dangerous support, but as a top laner this gives him problems.
AlwaysByMySide7 votes[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gijtyrYP,comment-id=000200000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-05-08T22:18:39.054+0000)
He is not overpowered, he is underpowered, compared to his previous form. Previously he was a durable and sustainable laner that posed a threat. The only really useless skill he had was his shield.
He's not overpowered or underpowered. He's fine. Every statistic shows us this.
Currently, his whole kit relies on a gimmick. And i dont like that. It is the same what was done with gp. All of his power is tied to a single gimmick.
This doesn't mean he isn't a perfectly strong champion. GP was completely busted for a while, and even after his nerfs is still a perfectly strong top laner.
He lost his poke, he lost his sustain, and, he lost his damage. Now it all relies on his q, one skill. Thats is his whole kit, that one skill that he needs to hit or lose.
He has just as much sustain due to having better defensive options in lane. A taunt > Q > W lets him trade on many opponents while taking little to no damage in the process.
So are we going to pretend that old Shen relied on more than his passive for damage? Shen was built as a full tank, and his Q as such did very little damage. His passive was the bulk of his trading ability. His new Q is sort of like his passive, only he can proc an attack speed steroid during it, it lasts for three hits, it's up more often, and it does more damage.
The only reason he is still used is his ultimate, nothing else. There are far better, more agressive and more damaging tanks than shen.
There are certainly overall better champions right now. That's why I said he was balanced, not overpowered.
He is not trash tier, he is playable. However, his power just is not there. And the power that he has, is tied to a gimmick, that makes no thematic or logical sense.
Thematically his spirit sword is weird, sure, but his kit is far more rewarding and interactive than before, while still being usable.
Also yes, he is far better support than a top. It was a matter of a few changes. Paper towers prevented him from using his ultimate becaue then the tower dies. His shit scalings but good bases allows him to be a dangerous support, but as a top laner this gives him problems.
So are we going to sit here and pretend that old Shen had better scaling on his abilities, lol?
Old Shen had: health scaling on his passive, AP on his Q, AP on his W, AP on his E, and AP on his ultimate. Shen built exactly one of these stats.
New Shen has: health scaling on his passive, percent health damage on his Q as well as an attack speed steroid, no scaling on his W, health scaling on his E, and AP scaling on his ult.
New Shen's abilities objectively have the better scaling.
Dextix LT2 votesHe may be fine in a balanced game, this is not a balanced game however, and far too many top tanks do a better job than him. THere is litterally no reason to take him top.
And no, he doesnt have as much sustain. When comparing the healing i received from my q back in the day and the current defensive options, the current options give immediate effect but suck in the long run especially against poke champions. Previously i could heal with my q, now i have nothing like it.
And shen was not always built full tank. I played him ad offtank with prechange trinity force, and it worked perfectly. People always underetstimate his q by saying that it was weak. Wrong. With the right build you could become as strong as any bruiser. His q was his main source of damage. Haveyou ever played him since you do not know that?
Only his e has a good scaling attached to it, the sword is a gimmick that relies on your enemy being stupid or immobile to work, otherwise you will proc it once and the enemy will then kite the shit out of you because of your kit.
AlwaysByMySide5 votes[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gijtyrYP,comment-id=00020000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-05-09T04:23:11.164+0000)
He may be fine in a balanced game, this is not a balanced game however, and far too many top tanks do a better job than him. THere is litterally no reason to take him top.
This is ridiculous reasoning. Other champions being better does not make him bad. He is decent, but not overpowered. Some of his peers happen to be overpowered, like Maokai and Ekko.
And no, he doesnt have as much sustain. When comparing the healing i received from my q back in the day and the current defensive options, the current options give immediate effect but suck in the long run especially against poke champions. Previously i could heal with my q, now i have nothing like it.
I'd agree that it isn't as good against poke options, but your sustain against melees (who you should be brawling with) is much better. Shen's all in against other melees is very strong due to his ability to ignore chunks of their damage.
And shen was not always built full tank. I played him ad offtank with prechange trinity force, and it worked perfectly. People always underetstimate his q by saying that it was weak. Wrong. With the right build you could become as strong as any bruiser. His q was his main source of damage. Haveyou ever played him since you do not know that?
No, most of his damage came from his passive.
I'm not saying old Shen did no damage (okay, in absolute terms he did, but that hasn't changed). He had decent 1v1 sustained damage. He still does. I also built some offense on Shen. I liked to get wit's end to proc my passive more often and to shred their MR so my sunfire, Q, passive, and thornmail did more damage. I might still get it if Wit's End wasn't nerfed and Titanic Hydra wasn't a frankly better option.
Only his e has a good scaling attached to it, the sword is a gimmick that relies on your enemy being stupid or immobile to work, otherwise you will proc it once and the enemy will then kite the shit out of you because of your kit.
Shen had no damage scaling in his kit save his passive that he even built on his old kit lol. And he was at least as prone to being kited with his old kit. His Q's damage would be healed by any adc with their auto attacks in short order, he always had to stick to people to really do any notable damage to them, and always had problems sticking to enemies. This hasn't changed, and I really don't know why people are pretending it has.
tidegate1 votesYou're wrong about scaling. Old shen had some broken ap scaling. And I agree with trinity force over your choice. I used to play trinity force shen and outdamage my entire team. I really really really liked old Shen to be honest
Seraphize2 votesShen top's only point is tank-busting with his Q and having OK base stats end game with items like . Shen support (which I used to main until I got utterly bored of it) can basically only use his R E Q W combo to... oh yeah, block like 2 basic attacks and then just sit there. Cool concept, boring execution.
AlwaysByMySide5 votesShen top's only point is tank-busting with his Q and having OK base stats end game with items like
Not to mention there's the whole "global ultimate" thing. No other top laner is as good at roaming, saving his allies, and snowballing them.
tidegate1 votesSo you ult to snowball your allies and your lane opponents gets your tower in a game where global gold is way better than one maybe two kills. Do this twice more and now tryndamere has 200 free farm and is at your inhib at 20 mins. That's called gg bc you used your kit right
Lady Hammerlock3 votes[{quoted}](name=Memeglaive Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gijtyrYP,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-05-08T21:09:43.134+0000)
What state is that?
Being balanced?
Oh, poor Shen players, having to play a balanced champion...
Idk if your serious any other bruiser will outheal him with grasp of undying will out damage him will out manuver him not to mention also have an easier resource to manage because using shadow dash as a gap closer,if it doesn't hit a target you've consumed more then 1/4 of your energy
Hell any fucking AD assassin just has to buy Deaths dance and they can duel with a shen no problem(except 
to easily countered by armor)
AlwaysByMySide5 votesIdk if your serious any other bruiser will outheal him with grasp of undying
Shen uses grasp of the undying too, only Shen is the only bruiser who can makes theirs useless with his W.
will out damage him
In absolute terms? Likely. In lane 1v1? Not necessarily, he mitigates too much of their damage.
will out manuver him
You are aware that there are bruisers like Darius with no mobility at all, right?
not to mention also have an easier resource to manage because using shadow dash as a gap closer,if it doesn't hit a target you've consumed more then 1/4 of your energy
Okay so his E consumed over 1/4 of his energy before the rework too. Only he had no way to regain his lost energy before the rework to my recollection.
Second of all, then I guess you'd better hit your target, huh?
Hell any fucking AD assassin just has to buy Deaths dance and they can duel with a shen no problem(except
Maybe, but frankly I doubt it. Too many ways to blunt their damage, too much defense, does too much damage to squishies, etc.
tidegate1 votesDarius is a bad example, he excels at tank killing. Especially after black cleaver. You just either kite during shen w or save your q for it
Faith Breaker21 votesRiot Redesign Policies 2016 = Rework a champ, spend years doing it, totally fuck it up, then act like nothing happened.
Chaotic Reks8 votes
thank god for malicious metal to help riot get their shit together with Huekaiser
Raid Boss Morde4 votesBut Riot still hasn't done anything, even with all the MM posts. But... Riot did say Morde is back on the rework list, so there's that.
Chaotic Reks2 votesIt's better than what happened right after they reworked Morde and gutted him into oblivion. At least he's playable right now.
Galío9 votesAs a mastered 
player, I think he's actually really good. I destroy almost anybody in lane because my w blocks their attacks and minion attacks. This means I can safely harass an enemy behind their minions with no problem. If I'm too close to them and they start fighting back I can E away to safety. My q doesn't even need to be positioned properly for it to do massive damage, and by the time I'm finished using it, it's already off cooldown. His ultimate is on a relatively short cooldown compared to how much it can turn a fight. Even though was nerfed after you get 
he becomes really strong. I think that after his rework, he became a fun and balanced champion to play. And to counter your title: Landing an ult that saves your ADC is SUPER rewarding!
BastionKross9 votesI never understood Riot's thought process with the Shen update.
"Guys, we totally missed the mark thematically with that giant sword that follows Shen around."
Oh, so you'll be putting Shen back in the rework machine soon to fix that error?
"We're going to move on, pretend this never happened, and let Shen continue to be a confused champ thematically for a few years."
Is it too much to ask that Rioters not be allowed to get away with this kind of bullshit?
"Evidently."
AbyssionKnight2 votesI agree. If Riot makes a rework that actually makes the champion less balanced, they should just revert the work and put the champion back in their 'more balanced' state. Cass last rework might not have been perfect, but she was a lot more enjoyable than this current iteration. Same with Shen. He wasn't perfect, but he was better to play, and it wasn't as though he was some OP perma-ban champion.
Riot shouldn't be able to reformat and then abandon champions whenever they dislike how a champion plays.
Doctor Jarvis2 votesI just love that they straight up said that, and nearly in the same breath they said "Ryze is looking pretty f-ed up after our rework, so we're gonna fix him". Like...I like Shen and all but if they don't and think he needs a rework why put it off?
CasterGilgamesh7 votesi just wish riot removed the ap ratio on his empowered auto attacks and his ult and just make them scale with his health
EmollientNut04 votesThey could do any number of things to fix the fact that he scales weirdly off 3 different ratios, yet here we are. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
CasterGilgamesh4 votesthey killed ap shen so i have no idea why they even kept the ap ratio they could also make his energy regen faster for starters since his full "combo" takes up most of his whole energy pool i mostly play shen support and i have some pretty good luck with him there also his sword should come back to him faster
Arakadia2 votesThey should either bring back AP Shen, which was quite fun, or better yet make him not scale off AP at all.
Guy Fox Teemo7 votesIdk, I destroy almost every game with Shen and have around a 64% win rate in ranked, I honestly think just most people have zero idea how to actually play him.
Dominick Destine5 votesShen? more like FAIL-en.... am I right?
EmollientNut012 votesIt's a real shame that I have 430k mastery with the champion and he's almost unplayable to me.
BadmoonBC1 votesIt's a real shame that I have 430k mastery with the champion and he's almost unplayable to me.
My bro plays him and we duo constantly He literally carries me every game with him and he's silver and I' was gold 3. That champion is more broken then ever, imo secret op. Just has a sustain issue now.
OurLestrade3 votes[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gijtyrYP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-05-08T21:02:53.667+0000)
Shen? more like FAIL-en.... am I right?
y u do dis ._.
EmollientNut02 votesI let him have it. I'm distraught over my favorite champion. [slayer-jinx-catface]
DrProfVibeCheck5 votesIf you play Shen correctly, he can be extremely rewarding. He has something that other tanks don't have as often, global presence. I remember a time where I was just pushing mid as Shen when a fight broke out in bot lane. I TP'ed down there and won em the fight. Afterwards, I looked at the map and saw our Jungle splitpushin top. He was getting collapsed on, so I TP'ed up to him and saved his ass.
Shen has the ability to affect 3 very different parts of the map in a quick succession. He also has the ability to duel much better than other tanks. Manipulate your Q right, and youre a basically a pseudo bruiser. With the combination of his damage and his utility, Shen is my number one choice in top lane.
Chestylapooptrai5 votesIt may seem like a strange idea, but jungle shen is a great time. He has really good sustain thanks to his passive whenever an ability is used. His W denys most monster damage because they count as AA's. His taunt can be either a great gap closer for a gank(but not as good as ult), or for aggro-ing monsters and reducing their damage. And then there is his ult, oh baby how the ganks that can be pulled off. Have your ult-buddy jump in a bush or let your enemies see that your going to be there soon and get ready to fight. All in all though shen is still a great duelist and excellent off tank fighter. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and is quite a babe
BluePolarizer1 voteshis clears seem painfully slow though. He's basically a defensive warwick in the jungle, and warwick only works because he gets free gold from ganks to make up for his awful farm.
Doctor Jarvis2 votesHonestly only his first clears are absurdly slow. They're slower than most other junglers at most game stages, but he's pretty on-par in terms of tank jungler clears. Once you get like 10% cdr his %hp sword cuts right through jungle monsters...and its back.
OneExit3 votesDude... I have 60k Mastery on , most of which was before his re-work/ tweak... I feel like Riot slapped me honestly. My mains are and 
and is being reworked by Riot RIGHT NOW. With what they did to my poor ninja I'm terrified as to what they're going to do to the ferryman. FFS Rito pls
Looknook2 votesYeah man I don't play Yorick but I did play Shen a lot before his rework. Now... his playstyle is just entirely different, and I didn't play Shen for that playstyle.
Dreadlocks3 votesShen was between my 3rd and 4th most played champion for quite some time (according to the mastery system) and ive pretty much dropped him since the rework.. I tried hard to get into it.. but its just not the same.
Feathermane2 votesYou mean a rework was bad? Like every other rework aside from Sion? Shocking.
Sion, Nunu, Taric and Warwick (and Rengar) were the only champions who actually ever needed a rework.
Dantone1 votesCan anyone explain to me how the slow on his Q works?
Icestar11862 votesIf the sword hits an enemy on the way to Shen, they're slowed if they try to run.