This game has so many more movement speed items than it ever has, yet you still nerf a struggling champion's slow? I just don't understand the concept behind that, and it gave him the second lowest win rate in the mid lane currently.
Zenfro42 votesswain and karthus are to op, they have so much mobility and can easily...
deep down inside, rito just wants assassins to be pesntakill-maniac
Retillin31 votesNo no, it's not assassins. It's FLASHY assassins. What brings more people to the table to watch LC$...
Whut Thuh 12 votesexcept that the way the run the lcs makes it so no one fights anyone and they just bacerace until someone overextends and dies
Blue Moon Wolf11 votesFLA$HY a$$a$$in$
fify
YCitizenSnipsY4 votesSo thats why Maokai and Ryze are power picks right now, because they are flashy assassins.
50000000000000006 votesMaokai has a targeted mobility spell that also makes him untargetable, and do %HP damage. Maokai is definitely a flashy assassin. </s>
Dessem4 votesTo be quite fair, if someone picked Karthus I'd watch LCS immediately.
Granted, no one'll be impressed by your amazing Press R mechanics, but sometimes you just want to blast some turds.
SlaktarTasken7 votes[{quoted}](name=tibber strong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1aY4TE5z,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-10T16:40:35.636+0000)
swain and karthus are to op, they have so much mobility and can easily...
deep down inside, rito just wants assassins to be pesntakill-maniac
The Irony is that most assassins, especially the ones that aren't named Fizz, Leblanc and Zed are struggling right now, I get your sentiment though. But when your generic assassin has to bring another teammember along just to 2v1 that toplane graves or botlane Lucian or whatever (without opposing team getting involved) you know something is seriously wrong, after all, if your generic assassin can't solo an adc, what is the point to picking an assassin at all, this also goes for quite a large quantity of champs in the fighter pool.
This get fed or get stomped by the class you're supposed to counter is just unhealthy, ADC's should be brought somewhat in line, maybe that way every LCS match won't have to consist of 4 adc's and 4 tanks simply because ADC's are rampant and tanks are the only class that can survive their damage for more than a split second, while rest of all the classes cry in a corner because they are more or less obselete sharing a total of 2 champion slots in a 10 slot game.
KING 5HARK2 votesLeblanc
Doesnt she have a sub-50% winrate? Or do you mean competitive play?(In that case: Why Fizz, hes not played at all)
Auz the Ripper3 votesShe's like lee sin, she'll always have a low winrate unless she gets totally broken
Foxstep4 votesThe Irony is that most assassins, especially the ones that aren't named Fizz, Leblanc and Zed are struggling right now, I get your sentiment though. But when your generic assassin has to bring another teammember along just to 2v1 that toplane graves or botlane Lucian or whatever (without opposing team getting involved) you know something is seriously wrong, after all, if your generic assassin can't solo an adc, what is the point to picking an assassin at all, this also goes for quite a large quantity of champs in the fighter pool.
This get fed or get stomped by the class you're supposed to counter is just unhealthy, ADC's should be brought somewhat in line, maybe that way every LCS match won't have to consist of 4 adc's and 4 tanks simply because ADC's are rampant and tanks are the only class that can survive their damage for more than a split second, while rest of all the classes cry in a corner because they are more or less obselete sharing a total of 2 champion slots in a 10 slot game.
I didn't knew kha, rengar, nidalee, talon are struggling XD
HadesBlades2 votesWait ;-; where are the katarina mains then?
Pierce The Veal3 votes[{quoted}](name=tibber strong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1aY4TE5z,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-04-10T16:40:35.636+0000)
swain and karthus are to op, they have so much mobility and can easily...
deep down inside, rito just wants assassins to be pesntakill-maniac
Ahaha.
Which is funny because basically no assassins actually need movement speed to get to their target because they have dashes/leaps.
SonaTitsAndAss29 votesthe same reason swain got a nerf MEANWHILE THE PURE TANK EKKO WHOS 1 v 5ING nah lets leave him swain is the REAL problem
EmollientNut09 votesI'm SO tired of seeing Ekko in every match because of this, especially as a top lane main. It's literally unmanageable, while basically every carry mage has the lowest winrate in the mid lane currently.
charcharmunro6 votesWell... Most long-range mages... And Ahri and Malzahar are doing pretty okay because they have sometimes obnoxious safety.
Stevev453 votesThe only reason malz hasn't been nerfed more yet is because he is already on the chopping block.
ImmortalBloodCY2 votesAhri is a mid-range mage.
Not a long range mage and her R gives her 3 free dashes which she can use to escape or to secure a kill easily.
charcharmunro2 votesThat's why I said AND.
ImmortalBloodCY3 votesOh I guess i understood wrongly sorry.
Voluug137 votesMalzahar
obnoxious safety
ummmmm. No.
Ahri? Yes. Malzahar is one of the riskier champions in the game to lane properly as. No mobility, low MS, autopush abilities, no CC pre-6, no sustain...
Malz is strong because he counterpicks 
, but does badly against most other mages, so...
charcharmunro2 votesI mean... He's pretty safe provided he never gets camped. Because he's nigh-impossible to 1v1.
Dar Raksada4 votesI mean... He's pretty safe provided he never gets camped. Because he's nigh-impossible to 1v1.
he's easy to gank and not great in teamfights because he ccs himself while ulting tho.
iPooUnicorns3 votesHe is good in teamfights if you know how to not set yourself up with your ult, his Q has massive damage and a 3 second silence, and he also has an AoE %HP spell.
Dar Raksada2 votesHe is good in teamfights if you know how to not set yourself up with your ult, his Q has massive damage and a 3 second silence, and he also has an AoE %HP spell.
You're completely right, I worded it wrong. He is not safe in teamfights was what I meant.
MetalGearTeemu3 votesHe's great in teamfights until someone finishes a scimitar, then the dies in a fraction of a second and Zed "HAUR HAUR HAUR's" away because he pressed all the buttons and then R again to escape to safety a screen's length away.
Voluug132 votesan AoE %HP spell.
Without CC, Null Zone is pretty worthless.
SociopathFriend12 votesprovided he never gets camped
As a Malz main I will tell you- he WILL get camped.
Rivini8 votesAs a Malz main I will tell you- he WILL get camped.
Yep. I can't think of a single match when I played Malzahar and didn't get ganked. Even if I'm near my own tower, the enemy jungler will still stop by.
Not too long ago, in a normal no less, I had an enemy Lee Sin ward behind my tower to get behind me (he was in the small brush on blue buff side) and kick me to the enemy Morgana. He did this a couple times, if you can believe it. This Lee Sin previously had been trying to gank me for the majority of the match. It was obnoxious.
forresto1 votesIsn't that actually somewhat of an advantage though? if people think your champ is so strong they feel compelled to camp you, it pulls them away from other lanes. just saying, it could be good for the team overall. besides, if they do camp you, but don't kill you, they're down a lot of time and jungle creeps.
Voluug132 votesIts not because Malzahar is strong, its because he is a sitting duck until level 6. No mobility, not even a slow, no sustain, no defensive abilities and autpush abilities.
And lets be honest, unless you are with a pro premade of 5 players your bot/top/jg wont know how to use said time.
ModAcademy Kayn5 votesTank Ekko wasn't a thing when Swain got nerfed, and if you check PBE you can see Tank Ekko has several nerfs, from his bases to Iceborn G. and Grasp of the Undying nerfs.
Zedex2 votesIts not a problem with just Ekko. The tank items are breaking soo many champions. It first started with Akali, then Yasuo with Grasp up top. It has so much of a higher winrate then glass cannon mid because the build deletes champion weaknesses with also carrying them with random damages tacked on here and there for bruisers.(yet now assassins build it, balanced)
Its just 10x worse with Ekko because of the general hate for the characters kit.
Audiomancy11 votesMaybe they intend to add the new "Grounded" effect to it.
loljk, riot would never do something smart.
NineTailedMystic1 votesplsno. No dashes let alone flash for 4 seconds on top of the slow and MR shred? One of the two pre existing effects would have to go.
Audiomancy2 votesSince they made the slow weaker over time, it's pretty much completely diminished after 1.5s.
HazyCloud710 votesBecause riot is biased against AP champions.
Aeszarck5 votesWell, Riot wanted to keep Karthus's damage because damage is iconic about Karthus, so they nerfed his slow. He was doing too well in most of his matchups for a late-game hyper carry (who should have a terrible early game), so they nerfed his slow so his early game wouldn't be as strong (can't apply damage as easily, can't set up jungler ganks as easily) but he'd still have his amazing lategame damage. Karthus was far from struggling when the nerf took place. He's not that good now, but he's decent. Might be in line for a small buff, but nothing overboard.
EmollientNut07 votesI don't ever remember a point in time in the last year that Karthus was particularly strong. I remember him in S4 worlds, but I barely saw a lot of him even in that season. Why not fight mobility creep where it lives? Lower the cast time on his Q from .5 to .4 seconds.
Aeszarck6 votesHe was pretty decent throughout. Not too strong or too weak. Preseason put him over the edge--I believe he hit a 54% win rate with the advent of preseason, which was amazing for Karthus mains such as myself. Too amazing to last.
Melledoneus2 votesBut it wasn't the slow, it was the mastery. And even then, the mastery got nerfed, then they just straight up nerfed his ability to slow mobility.
Aeszarck3 votesIt was the mastery, and yes, it got nerfed, but it's still there. It's still buffing Karthus's damage, and that's why we're not likely to see Karthus buffs.
The Governer5 votesDon't try to reason with the Boards. They just want mages to be overbuffed and assassins to be overnerfed instead of looking at the whole picture.
I am not saying some assassins are overall healthy or mages are doing too well (there are definitely some outliers in each of these cases (we have Lux who was doing too well and nerfed subsequently <funny how they used to whine about Lux's E mana costs?>, and then we have Katarina who was struggling as an assassin and made Riot buff her. We also have some previously unhealthy assassins like tank Fiora), and some champions are currently not played the ways they are intended to be played (Ekko for example), so on and forth), but the Boards itself really has done nothing to prove they are knowledgeable enough to judge balancing decisions. There are so many instances where they were very wrong (Jaggernauts, Lux, just to name a few).
In other words, all they do is bitching and bitching, and downvoting threads/posts that do not say "mages are so bad to play omfg" or "assassins are too OP nerf plz" and upvoting vice versa. If you try to reason with them, you will be just met with condemnations telling you you have no place to agree with Riot while ironically they have no place to judge any balancing decisions when they are not adept in data and champion analysis. Some of them do not even have enough data to prove their stance and merely rely on their anecdotal experiences to try to prove/disprove something. Their entire stance is skewed towards immobile mages.
Karthus was really way too proficient in Korean pro play (He was even played in jungle, a role that isn't intended for him, very often in pro play). That should tell any of you something about Karthus' previous state.
Aeszarck4 votesSound reasoning--I agree. Since coming to the Boards, I've noticed that much of the community has a penchant for anything underplayed and unbridled hate for assassins and whatever seems strong.
I try not to debate with people about balance since I couldn't know whether a champion is strong based on playing against that champion (I'd have to play him or her in many matchups and teamcomps), and because my champion pool is pretty small and is composed of champions most people don't complain about, I can't give any valuable input.
Now people are finally complaining about champion that I play, so I can finally talk about balance. However, it seems like most people don't actually understand Karthus's current state of balance, and instead jump to his aid and ask for buffs because he's underplayed and he's very docile in the laning phase. (Karthus seems to be a damsel in distress to the Boards, needing to be saved by everyone.) Needing a reason for the proposed buffs, they call out the one thing that they actually know is bad about Karthus: "he's countered so hard by mobility".
Karthus's designed weakness.
Karthus was countered by mobility before the wall nerf. In fact, his lane matchups haven't changed since the wall nerf. He still does trash against mobile champions with heavy kill potential, and he still can win matchups versus immobile opponents. The one most important thing that the nerf did was lower his early game kill potential. Late game, the decaying slow matters little since a slow that strong even for a small amount of time is enough to catch someone out. Karthus got a ton of damage with preseason in the form of Deathfire Touch. It was amazing--he had a spammable single target spell and a damage over time spell. He could abuse the crap out of the mastery, and deal waaaay too much damage. He'd be able to set up jungler ganks very easily with his strong wall, and the opposing laner would likely be quite low since one critical Lay Waste did a lot of damage. He could also dissuade all-ins on himself, because he'd be able to match the damage that the opposing laner put in him, and if the opposing laner went all in, he or she would be low enough for Karthus to finish him or her off with Death Defied. This meant that Karthus would normally be going either neutral in lane because of his safe laning or positive because he was able to set up a good jungler gank. In either case, he'd be up in cs because of his farming mechanics. This was not a healthy early game for a hypercarry.
So they nerfed his wall. He still dealt nice damage, but he couldn't apply it as easily or set up jungler ganks as well. Honestly, he's probably better off than he was before preseason, since even though his wall was nerfed, he's got the amazing Rod of Ages and Deathfire Touch to augment his laning.
The Governer4 votesVery sound explanation. You explained it really well.
Dengeden2 votesa) Because mobility creep isn't a thing b) Because Karthus slow was cheesy
EmollientNut027 votesSound the alarm, it's a Tencent employee
[zombie-brand-mindblown]
WiseWoodrow5 votesI wonder how it'd feel, being a Tencent employee. Knowing the entire game you control hates you, and probably a lot of people at Riot too.
Imagine all the things that Tencent caused, not actually riot.
EmollientNut04 votesI've been wondering that a lot lately myself. It's suspicious that they've made so many controversial decisions since the full buy out in December.
MetalGearTeemu3 votesMuch like Activision Blizzard, you sell your soul to the devil and your product is butchered before your eyes to the growing disdain of your community.