Nerfing IBG but not Runic Echos

FACE THE WlND··1 votes·1,013 views

Nerfing IBG because it is too strong on some champions and some champions abuse it (cough cough ezreal were looking at you). But when it comes to Runic Echos, you're nerfing the champions instead of he items, such as Udyr, so now pheonix stance is unviable, and his tank play style will do 0 damage throughout all stages of the game, not just talking about the Runic Echos build here, he can't go cinderhulk anymore, because he'll deal absolutely no damage and do even less than the minuscule amount of damage he did late game, even with runic echos, not to mention he's going to be doing even less damage because of the IBG nerf. Why not tone down the movement speed to 5% on runic echos, or the mana passive, because it gives too much utility as is.

35 Comments

warpenguin5553 votes

That just got nerfed like last patch

FACE THE WlND1 votes

Yeah, it did, but is it balanced right now?

Bears Dont Care1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, it did, but is it balanced right now?

...

FACE THE WlND1 votes

This is helpful.

warpenguin5551 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, it did, but is it balanced right now?

Unsure.

FACE THE WlND1 votes

If it's being taken on 90% of tanks over cinderhulk there must be something wrong.

DrCyanide3 votes

Many would argue that "something wrong" is Cinderhulk being too weak.

FACE THE WlND1 votes

So you think Runic Echos is balanced?

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Many would argue that "something wrong" is Cinderhulk being too weak.

The main difference between the two is AP Bruiser VS. Hypertank. (And Riot really does not want to force one or the other.)

This could mean that Cinderhulk does not create the Hyper tank that people desire. (suggesting that it's UP) Or it could simply be that Hyper tanks arn't in the meta. (which is a little more neutral on Cinderhulks balance.)

Or maybe people go Echo over Cinderhulk because it has faster camp clear. We learned from experience that Clear speed is a bad lever of balance for Junglers, as Faster items/champions will always pull out a gold and xp lead.

The problem is, you can't compare just those two items. you need to compare them against the other items as well. If we Nerf Echo when Cinderhulk was the problem, we end up with 2 weak items, which would favor Warrior and Devourer Junglers. Inversely, if we buff Cinderhulk, when Echos was the problem. We end up with two problemed Jungle items.

WoonStruck1 votes

Nerfing IBG, but not Essence Reaver

Ftfy

FACE THE WlND1 votes

It was nerfed, it's not overpowered anymore as it was after the marksman update, it's balanced atm.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

It was nerfed, it's not overpowered anymore as it was after the marksman update, it's balanced atm.

Its still overpowered lol. Its just not insanely overpowered now.

HMM I WONDER WHY CORKI, LUC, EZ, SIVIR, ETC ARE ALL VERY POWERFUL ATM.

Just Shimakaze1 votes

Because this is the marksmen meta? Champs like rengar have an option to build that, but he's trash right now.

WoonStruck1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Just Shimakaze,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gijot18g,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-06T13:50:31.718+0000)

Because this is the marksmen meta? Champs like rengar have an option to build that, but he's trash right now.

Whatitem 3508 commonitem 3508 factoritem 3508 coulditem 3508 ititem 3508 possiblyitem 3508 be?

Only a small portion of the marksmen are viable at the moment.

Also, what does Rengar have to do with anything? Him being trash and also unable to utilize ER doesn't mean the item is okay atm. In fact, its completely unrelated. lol

Just Shimakaze1 votes

The reason rengar is viable is because ER is a viable option on him. If a specific item is broken, it gives a champ op stats that they should be able to abuse, yet if rengar builds it he's still a bad choice, because it isn't a strong enough item to make him go crazy.

WoonStruck1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Just Shimakaze,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gijot18g,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-06T14:04:47.900+0000)

The reason rengar is viable is because ER is a viable option on him. If a specific item is broken, it gives a champ op stats that they should be able to abuse, yet if rengar builds it he's still a bad choice, because it isn't a strong enough item to make him go crazy.

That's like saying IBG isn't strong because every ADC isn't using it.

What's that? Varus isn't OP when he buys IBG? I guess IBG isn't a strong item.

See how silly it sounds?

Just Shimakaze1 votes

Why do you even think ER is broken? It seems to be in a pretty good place right now...

WoonStruck1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Just Shimakaze,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gijot18g,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-06T22:26:52.384+0000)

Why do you even think ER is broken? It seems to be in a pretty good place right now...

Because as a concept, the item cannot be balanced. You have a DPS class with hits that essentially act as burst.

Now you give that class more dps AND burst via spells since now they have the single highest CDR item in the game. Now they also have infinite mana, thus no gating. Oh, and they also don't sacrifice flat damage for it either, along with getting some crit.

The item should either have way lower flat damage, or no crit at all so other classes can utilize it as well. Either that or remove the mana passive so they're actually gated.

FACE THE WlND1 votes

When you don't think logically it's easy to not understand other perspectives that oppose your views.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

When you don't think logically it's easy to not understand other perspectives that oppose your views.

Its not perspective that's the issue here. ER is still over-tuned. Maybe not by much, but it definitely is. Especially when you compare it to an item like Morello's or Athenes, who accomplish the same things overall...but with far lower translated value.

FACE THE WlND1 votes

Mage items are weak, mages are weak, they're being reworked.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

Mage items are weak, mages are weak, they're being reworked.

Only a few are being looked at, and itemization is barely getting touched, according to Riot.

FACE THE WlND1 votes

Wat

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

Wat

Mages are not getting broad itemization changes. Any changes they do make will be small tweaks, like cost and such, and they may touch up CDR options a bit. That's what they said.

The champions getting reworked are just a set few. The majority of mages will still be in a bad place IF these reworks even bring the affected champs forward enough to be viable in the meta. If not, all of them will likely still be in a bad spot.

FACE THE WlND1 votes

I'm sure the item changed should fix most issues, may be small but I'm sure they'll be looking to fix current issues. Cdr being hard to get is one of the main issues.

WoonStruck1 votes

{quoted}

I'm sure the item changed should fix most issues, may be small but I'm sure they'll be looking to fix current issues. Cdr being hard to get is one of the main issues.

The issues mages have right now are a lot deeper than just CDR. It might make Orianna, Syndra, Lux, Vlad, etc, better, but its not going to fix mages as a whole.

The item changes will hardly touch anything. It might make their spent gold a little more efficient relative to now, but the largest issue lies with ACDs being able to build item 3156 item 3139 item 3053 (not necessarily together) and still have pretty absurd damage.

Those items effectively negate the impact any mage will have on a carry if bought for the situation and continue to scale their damage as well. ADC itemization needs to be essentially gutted. Their itemization is far too slot-efficient and allows them to get away with building multiple defensive items without really lacking damage for doing so.

FACE THE WlND1 votes

Corki: 50% magic damage autos magic damage poke that scales with ad, insane engage, synergy with tri force. Lucian: High burst damage, mobility, double aa, ranged harass/wave clear. Sivir: Aoe movement speed buff, spell shield, as steroid, wave clear, poke. MARKSMEN META

WoonStruck1 votes

Hmm...I wonder which item specifically makes all of those champions overbearing...

What common factor do they have that pushes out all of the others, including Jinx...

FACE THE WlND1 votes

Jinx is good, I guess the factor you're talking about is receiving buffs to their kits when jinx got nerfs. They were the only ones you mentioned because they're the only ones that would build that item, Kalista is good, Twitch is good, Caitlyn is good.

WoonStruck1 votes

Lucian didn't get any significant buffs to his kit. Only his ult was changed, and it was minor overall.

Jinx's nerfs weren't that heavy-handed either. A far cry from pushing Lucian to the top and Jinx closer to the bottom by kit changes alone. Sivirs buffs were also relatively minor.

FACE THE WlND1 votes

His ult damage was increased significantly by making it do a set amount of shots, if he had his old ult still, he wouldn't be nearly as good as he is now. Sivir was always good, and got buffed, jinx isn't bad now, but her nerf was pretty significant, she received a few nerfs over a few patches. Marksmen are broken in general right now, and item changes had a big hand in this. There are items much more broken for adcs than essence reaver(which is balanced) such as steraks gage, mercurial scimitar, IBG(Ezreal), Trinity Force, which was pretty much changed to be perfect on Corki, and other items specific to certain champs.

Just Shimakaze1 votes

Udyr deserves to be nerfed into the ground, to be honest. He doesn't deserve to be extremely tanky and still do noticable damage. Runic echoes is pretty balanced, my only woe with it is that they nerfed Elise before nerfing everyone else and left her gutted. Also, now, devourer is the enchant Udyr is supposed to build, so I don't know why you're complaining about Echoes not being for him.

FACE THE WlND1 votes

I don't see why a champion doesn't deserve to do damage after building a damage item? His damage falls off late, it's itemization that is broken, not Udyr. Devourer may be the best option after this set of nerfs because the pheonix tank play style is dead, doesn't mean it's optimal though, he is way too squishy.

Just Shimakaze1 votes

Late game tanks are supposed to do negligable damage. Even if he builds runic echoes, complaining that the 60 AP it gives doesn't allow for you to do damage late game is kinda dumb, no offense.

FACE THE WlND1 votes

He has to earn that damage, he is restricted to melee range, has no real initiation while most other tanks do, he also has only one form of cc and one primary damage ability, that is with the build we are talking about.

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