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Thornmail/Randuin's PBE Thoughts

Forhonor321··2 votes·1,314 views

For those who haven't checked yet, the PBE got updated, with changes to both Randuins and Thornmail.

Thornmail

  • Gold cost lowered from 2350g to 1200g
  • Build path: Cloth Armor + Cloth Armor + 600g (now builds into Randuin's Omen)
  • Armor lowered from 100 to 30
  • Unique passive magic damage reflect lowered from 25% to 15%

Randuin's

  • Gold cost increased from 2600g to 3000g
  • Build Path: Thornmail + Giant's Belt + 800g
  • Armor lowered from 60 to 50
  • [New] Now gives -15% damage taken from critical strikes
  • Unique Passive renamed to Thorns
  • Unique Passive - Thorns: When basic attacked, deal magic damage to the attacker equal to 15% bonus Armor, doubled for critical strikes

So to put it shortly, thornmail is being converted more into a ingredient item for a bigger one, (like longsword into anything or revolver into gunblade) and Randuins is being changed to accompany that.

I brief discussion on thornmail: I like the change. Let's be honest, as it is right now you could do better. It only provides a large amount of armor and reflects a portion of your damage back, more if you have insane armor. The only time I ever build or see this is if I'm against a full AD team or Rammus, sometimes on a big tank like Shen. Yeah the loss of 70 armor and 10% of passive is big but considering it's now an ingredient for Randuin's & becoming cheaper I don't mind that much.

And now to Randuin's: I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, YAY WE HAVE CRIT REDUCTION BACK! On top of this the new thornmail effect doubles the reflect damage on crit strikes! And if I'm looking at this correctly, the crit reduction is now higher! Now on the other hand it's going up in price, losing the AoE slow that it was known for & having it's armor lowered now than the other items (also from a lore note, isn't Thornmail a Noxus armament? Why would it build into a Demacian armament?). I mean I do like the way this is going for both items but it's just going to seem weird to build this item and remember it doesn't have the slow, pretty much losing some team utility for more personal tankiness.

Idk what are your thoughts?

EDIT: You don't lose the slow on Randuin's! It still has it but now you also get the thornmail passive.

13 Comments

Tahminatrix 1 votes

They just made a cheap go to single item that damage dealers can abuse even more. Sure tanks can tank harder but that assassin or master yi has the ability to easily tank your adc with one item..tanks were the ones that needed the aoe slow because most of them are immobile and in the middle of the fight.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

This is incorrect. The return damage scales with bonus armor.

I doubt it will work well for characters that buy only Thornmail -> Randuins as their defensive pit-stop.

Tahminatrix 1 votes

I`m more worried about the survivability it gives as a standalone item.......also thornmail does %damage based on the incoming auto attack damage before it is reduced by resistances *which does help tanks out more then squishies too...(NVM THAT WAS TAKEN AWAY) -Jhin / draven buff

but the %crit damage reduction will go a long way for even squishies who are targeting the enemy adc.....and like I said if you are an assassin you dont really need the aoe slow anyway which was gold that you would have been wasting.

Really dont see a reason to downvote me unless you play assassin and you buy omen for the aoe slow to make your life that much easier...*mostly looking at rengar and yi

Sèx Craved Eve1 votes

Seems like a kneejerk reaction to the previous change to Randuin's.

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Woah. On one hand that was the biggest single number nerf I have ever seen in Thornmail's case, but it makes sense as it turned into a component item.

On another hand Randiun's seems like it's better at doing it's job now, as it will discourage AD attackers more than usual. I would definitely be thrown off for the first few games as I'm not used to building Thornmail.

SirΤeemο1 votes

on patch 7.10 tanks gonna get full build on 10 minute...

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Very experimental change, not yet tested internally, highly unlike to ship. Need I say more?

Oleandervine1 votes

If you want to talk oddball build paths, Aegis of the Legion is a Demacian item that builds into a Targon item. Spellthief Edge is Lux's dagger in Spellthief Lux, that builds into a Freljord item. This kind of item building happens frequently.

Joseph Gladstone1 votes

jesus i read the thornmail change and almost had a heart attack, then read on and i think its pretty ok

Partybringer2 votes

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/J4klnFuzlDg/maxresdefault.jpg

Joseph Gladstone1 votes

ye

Erockandroll1 votes

Something that bothers me (not sure if it's an over sight) But on the PBE, the Randuin's omen, version of "Thorns" doesn't carry the "15% of incoming damage" component that was on thornmail.

Also, the PBE picture of Randuins shows it with it's slow active intact.

Over all though, I don't especially like it. (don't hate it) But the thorn's passive on Randuins I don't think is near where the current Thornmail is at. Though you don't exactly build Randuins for said passive in of itself. It kinda feels like Riot didn't find the thormail passive healthy when it's niche was viable, so they just made it's function secondary to another item, in a nerfed state. (No Idea how many people are annoyed by this, again, I don't hate it. I'm just taking note.)

Forhonor3211 votes

the PBE picture of Randuins shows it with it's slow active intact.

Holy shit you're right! It does still have it. I must of read it wrong.

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