It almost feels like Gromp is the worst camp

The Deckowner·Jul 25, 2016·37 votes·2,903 views

It is the tankiest in all 4 non-buff camps
its smite buff is useless
It does a lot of dmg
It has no smaller monster so can't proc multiple
Gold and exp value not significantly higher than other camps

Right now when I play ad junglers I always want to start krug，and with ap jungler I just start blue then go wolves then chicken. I think gromp need some change to make it a viable camp compare to others. Because wolves and chicken gives you vision control, krugs helps you clear with the stun, and scuttles gives vision in the river, gromp...3 dmg per second? come on Rito.

97 Comments

BloodyTomponJul 25, 201611 votes

There will always be a weakest camp. Gromp is targeted towards tanky junglers that are not meta atm.

The DeckownerJul 25, 20165 votes

tanky junglers are definitely the meta right now, gragas reksai had dominated the jungle for quite a few patches after kindred was nerfed.

BloodyTomponJul 25, 20166 votes

True, I was thinking the 'true tanks' like Naut and Amumu.

The DeckownerJul 25, 20164 votes

oh you mean cc bots

MohawkBirdJul 25, 20166 votes

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The DeckownerJul 25, 20162 votes

I play ap amumu too lol his kit is certainly meant to be a cc bot tho

MohawkBirdJul 25, 20161 votes

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The DeckownerJul 25, 20161 votes

TBH i think rylais is enough because if you keep building ap once it gets to 3 items you are way too squishy

MohawkBirdJul 25, 20161 votes

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The DeckownerJul 25, 20161 votes

I know it is powerful, but the problem is how you get to the point where you get defensive stats. before you are able to build tank items, the only defensive stat you have is 700 hp iirc, and no resistnce to back it up. with 3 items most champions can destroy amumu because he isn't too naturally tanky. Unless you snowball it is very risky to build this way. getting rylais for the utility then maybe magic pen boot for the magic pen is probably better.

MohawkBirdJul 25, 20161 votes

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zlumpyJul 25, 20161 votes

Nope he is literaly going to enter your game as officer Vi and come confiscate your items.

LegacyDAPJul 25, 20161 votes

Rek'sai is basically a CC bot in high elo, she just has an extremely reliable early game and gap closer, with above par damage.

AbyssphereJul 25, 20161 votes

Yes, like Gragas and Rek'Sai.

The DeckownerJul 25, 20161 votes

gragas and reksai actually have good mobility and base damage and reksai also have utility with tremer sense.

General Esdeath Jul 25, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ghYgug57,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-07-25T03:49:54.679+0000)

its smite buff is useless

Amumu Ekko Fiddlesticks Nunu Rammus Volibear Zac and Udyr would all like to have a word with you about tanking camps, as would Trick2g

DehitayJul 25, 20165 votes

Assuming your teammates aren't retarded, it's actually easier because it's only one monster. Your leash will be a lot more effective since you don't have to kill anything else after. And it's smite buff is definitely better than krugs if your goal is clear speed.

The DeckownerJul 25, 20163 votes

3 dmg/second really isn't much of a boost of clear speed, a camp takes maybe like 15~20 seconds to kill, the dmg this buff can do for the entire duration is less than an auto attack. Meanwhile Krug buff helps you clear much safer and allows you to take scuttle super fast(scuttle takes extra dmg when cc).

ghood4lifeJul 25, 20161 votes

I find the gromp buff useful when playing MasterYi . If you q blue/red/raptor/wolves buff twice, the little ones finish themselves off, reducing clear speed by a few seconds.

The DeckownerJul 25, 20162 votes

krug buff is a billion times better on yi trust me.

ghood4lifeJul 25, 20161 votes

I almost always start blue side no matter if it's bot or top. I find red buff to be more useful for ganks and blue buff more useful for clears.

SpoofghoulJul 25, 20161 votes

the one thing gromd is usefull for is exactly that damage on being hit, it works well with item 1039 on any junglers who don't have much aoe and therefor will increase your clear & sustain with the tooth passive

The DeckownerJul 25, 20162 votes

most junglers who use tailsman already has aoe who can proc the heal over time effect anyways

SpoofghoulJul 25, 20161 votes

thats why i mentioned junglers without much or any aoe

like warwick for example it helpos him burn down the camps with the tooth passive

and thats pretty much the only use for gromp buff because it sucks on its own

The DeckownerJul 25, 20163 votes

Tailsman is built for junglers with AOE, if you don't have it you don't build this item.

Warwrick is a special case, the only reason he is better with tailsman is because he don't need mechette since he has passive and q heal, tailsman on him is only for the mana regen. Even on Warwrick you would still want krug buff because it synergizes well with his w giving him tons of attackspeed.

2019 OffendedJul 25, 20161 votes

A lot of people do build talisman anyways, because its usually way more effective than the machete is, even if you have low aoe damage

The DeckownerJul 25, 20161 votes

tailsman is not about how much dmg you can do, as long as you have aoe you can constantly proc the healing.

2019 OffendedAug 10, 20161 votes

i meant even if you only have 1 spell that isnt even on a short cooldown, the flat amount of health you get back is still usually higher than the amount you get with machete's lifesteal

Rickon StarkJul 25, 20161 votes

Not true at all. I solo wolves and end up with more health sometimes than leashe on gromp.

ABlueQuakerJul 25, 20164 votes

It's great on Sejuani Amumu Zac . Basically any Tank Jungler. Stacked with Immolate, Challenging Smite, Red Buff and any AoE and/or DoT ability + Abyssal or Thornmail and you start dealing a decent amount of damage to Basic Attack-based champions.

It's easy to take with any champions that deal % HP, or aren't AoE jungle clearers.

I always make sure to smite gromp whenever I expect to be in combat.

The DeckownerJul 25, 20162 votes

these champions almost exclusively build blue smite
Amumu is better with runic echo
unwise to have red buff on your tank during a teamfight 4.thornmail is trash
does 3 dmg/second really mean anything in a teamfight?
jungle monsters take reduced damage from.%hp dmg abilities
gromp is the tankiest non–buff camp and does the most dmg

The FastJul 25, 20164 votes

Because they do, doesn't mean they should.
Agreed.
Doesn't mean he can't have it, nor does this have to be a teamfight situation.
Unless against full AD teams, yeah. 4(again). Biggest point here: Gromp doesn't do 10 damage over 3 seconds. Gromp does 10 + (5% Bonus Health) over 3 seconds. so a tank with 2500 Bonus HP won't be doing 3 damage over 3 seconds with Gromp, he'll be doing 135 damage over 3 seconds which is more damage than redbuff, granted, its magic damage, but it still can't be ignored.
Not all %max HP damage moves have a damage cap against monsters, but these upper limits still tend to be VERY high base damage. For example, Zac's W has a damage cap of 300 at rank 5. Gragas W is 440 damage. But I agree that the distinction being made for %MaxHP by Quaker is kinda unnecessary. 6. Gromp is the tankiest and highest damaging SINGLE MONSTER in the jungle, but not the tankiest and highest damage monster CAMP in the jungle. Gromp's got 1600HP, 75AD, and .63 AS, While the Krug camp collectively has 1950HP, 100AD at .613 AS. Gromp is very comparable in tankiness and damage to Krugs as a camp, if you take AoE and Gromp's 5 extra base armor into account.

Punching TopJul 25, 20164 votes

Can you stop repeating that '3 dmg per s'? It deals like 150 damage late game and is extremely useful for champs with no aoe dmg early game.

The DeckownerJul 25, 20161 votes

150 magic damage over 3 second is nothing late game, just like how 3 dmg per second is useless early game.

McprowlingtonJul 25, 20163 votes

Yup, just a free cloak of flames' worth of damage (way more, actually, if it really is late game) for 3 seconds on anyone that hits you when your job is to stand in the middle of the team fight and soak and disrupt totally isn't useful at all...

Punching TopJul 26, 20161 votes

150 dmg is like 1/10 of every adc's hp plus it doesnt apply once. Also, it looks like you don't play jg much.. The gromp smite buff almost kills the 'small chicken', so you can just focus on the big one.

The DeckownerJul 26, 20161 votes

if the adc is dumb enough to not build any mr late game and focus the tank to refresh the debuff then sure, but who the fuck does that?

also most junglers can kill small chickens with one combo before they can even land a single auto, no reason to wait for the gromp burn which allows the chickens to do 3 or 4 autos before they die out.

Also I have hundreds of jungle games.

PoskeJul 25, 20163 votes

How is gromp buff useless it even works against champions

If you want combat stats for teamfight its the only camp which can help you

B1naryB0tJul 25, 20162 votes

As a tank jungler, gromp is pretty crazy. It's honestly my favorite smite buff, tied with raptors. It scales nicely lategame to the point where it's a mistake for the enemy adc to touch you.

KingnewgameplusJul 25, 20162 votes

Aw man, remember preseason 5 when gromp at early levels did about as much damage as a champion? Good times.

Rickon StarkJul 25, 20162 votes

As a jungler, I honestly NEVER do gromp after my first clear unless I absolutely need it to get that quick level up. In fact, even for my first clear, I'll sometimes take solo wolves at lvl 1 and almost always end with more health than a leashe on gromp.

The Yetii RiderJul 25, 20161 votes

You need to clear every camp to get level 4 before your first back.

The DeckownerJul 25, 20161 votes

you dont have to do full clear before you back

The Yetii RiderJul 25, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ghYgug57,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2016-07-25T17:26:20.599+0000)

you dont have to do full clear before you back

Why wouldn't you? With how long backing takes.

The DeckownerJul 25, 20161 votes

some champions have really weak early sustain, so recall for a quick hunter's potion is super efficient for them after 2 or 3 camp. BTW walking from one side of the map to the other side is about the same as walking there from base.

The Yetii RiderJul 25, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ghYgug57,comment-id=0011000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-25T18:41:29.188+0000)

some champions have really weak early sustain, so recall for a quick hunter's potion is super efficient for them after 2 or 3 camp. BTW walking from one side of the map to the other side is about the same as walking there from base.

Except you add 8 seconds on for recalling and subtract the XP you get by passing by mid lane when it's pushed up

The DeckownerJul 25, 20161 votes

count in the hp/mana and the item you get from basing.

Also any decent jungler knows showing their face mid lane when not for ganking or covering will put thwmselves at a disadvantageous position, because enemy jungler can:

walk into the side your left and set up ward
gank the lane at the side you left without the possibility of a counter gank
invade you at the side you are heading and kill you/steal your camps
take scuttle crab without contest
safely recall without the possibility of you invading his jungle

The Yetii RiderJul 25, 20162 votes

You don't 'show your face'. You walk past your second turret on a direct route and you pick up the XP from your laner CSing under turret. You get that as you clear birds as well.

Recalling first literally gives you less XP if mid is pushed on your side.

The DeckownerJul 25, 20161 votes

being in exp range of minions, unless behind a wall or in a brush or stwalrhed, will show you in the enemy vision. This was done so people who are far behind can't just soak exp by hiding in fog of war.