Tanks are actually punchingballs with the only utility to stun and to r ...

MOuHahaHAhahaaaa·Oct 4, 2018·18 votes·6,497 views

In the past Riot made tanks to counter ad melee fighters and ad assassins.

Nowadays if you play full tank you better farm and can't trade against an ad melee fighter without getting obliterated.

Is that normal that a Malphite with 620 armor gets 1500 of true damage against a fiora or kha zix. I mean aren't tanks made to counter the ad fighters ? Because in the past that was their role.

by counter i mean it wont do a lot of damage to you but if you fight too long against him you have no chance because of resistance and high health.

It seems that now tanks are completely useless in laning phase and their job is only to r in teamfights and to be the punchingball...

Tanks are dead meat that's the only way riot sees us actually.

It's sad that a class that owned so much importance in the game is slowly getting put in the utility plan only.

59 Comments

BlinkZZ182Oct 4, 201816 votes

I play tanks all the time and never feel this way. Tanks are meant to be countered by juggernaut and skirmishers because they will be useful in teamfights even if they fall behind in gold. After you see that DrMundo Sion are very resilient in most matchups. Shen goes toe to toe with Riven Fiora . Malphite even counters Riven MonkeyKing and some other ad fighters. This is prohibiting proplayers taking other options other than tanks in top lane, and is unhealthy.

MOuHahaHAhahaaaaOct 4, 20183 votes

Tanks were meant to counter skirmishers in the past but riot changed everything...

DuskDaUmbreonOct 4, 201813 votes

Tanks were meant to counter burst and be peel and initiation. Skirmishers are not burst, they're DPS.

The only thing a tank is really meant to do against a skirmisher is keep them off of the ADC and help people land skillshots. They can lock them down, sure, but honestly a mage or assassin does that just as effectively and also kills the skirmisher.

RagnaveilOct 4, 20182 votes

Theres a difference with tanks being good in low elo, and tanks being good in high ELO. In gold, you could technically get away with playing any toplane tank and not get punished for it. In Diamond+, if you are anything but Sion or Cho, your ass about to be grass real quick. And as for pro play, top laners pick tanks mostly because it provides a good frontline, where as if they were some squish damage dealer, they would die in seconds and provide nothing for their team in fights.

RagnaveilOct 4, 20188 votes

Finally someone comes out with a post that speaks volumes to what most tanks are. Riot was forced to make tanks "dead meat" because of the community's reason of hating them last year: They are "boring" to play or play against. I for one like playing tanks like Ornn and Maokai vs playing some damage dealer that has to snowball or becomes useless (Aatrox).

ZackTheWaffleManOct 4, 20183 votes

it's boring to get fucking oneshotted by every damn champ on the enemy team

RagnaveilOct 4, 20181 votes

Meanwhile, there were no cases of absolute one shots in the tank meta. Makes you wonder if the tank meta wasn't actually that bad as the community perceives it as.

LTK KoRoOct 4, 20182 votes

Tank meta had a one glaring problem. Tanks were directly crowding out fighters/skirmishers out of top and jungle, and indirectly making assassins useless. In tank meta basically two people were playing tanks, two people were playing carries, and one support. That's why mid and ADC players loved tank meta. They were the carries. Thats why tops and junglers didn't like the meta. They couldn't carry.

RagnaveilOct 4, 20181 votes

Yeah, but who said we couldn't simply nerf tank items. Instead we had to add multiple ways of making a tank feel useless as shit because the community wanted tanks to die.

LTK KoRoOct 4, 20181 votes

Current tanks items feel like shit too, i don't feel any of them being useful outside of Stoneplate active and Warmogs passive. I don't think i have bought Randuins/DMP/SV/Sunfire on any tank in last three months.

RagnaveilOct 4, 20181 votes

Thats because of the "multiple ways" I mentioned. We have not only IE giving every AD access to true damage, but LW can shred armor effectively now, and Conqueror exists as a godcounter to tanks for any Bruiser and Draven. If we got rid of the true damage from both, the items would seem more effective.

GayFluffyUnicornOct 5, 20182 votes

And yet a taric with censer and knightsvow facetanks a darius for 20 seconds with conq, bc, steraks and i die. Tanks are so insanely broken and conq is literally a bandaid so bruisers don't automatically lose the moment they are picked.

RagnaveilOct 5, 20181 votes

"Insanely broken" Then why is Ornn in the gutter, while Sion and Cho are the last and only tanks being played in top?

GayFluffyUnicornOct 5, 20182 votes

I wonder why people hate unkillable monstrosities that have zero skill input and kill about anyone on the map.

RagnaveilOct 5, 20181 votes

Meanwhile we live in a zero skill one shot era currently. Its not that different at all.

Weiner the PoohOct 5, 20187 votes

Why should a tank win against a Fiora? Why should a tank win vs a fighter who excels in 1v1s/splitpush and is mediocre in teamfights, and then the same tank should be a team fight monster? That doesn't make any sense. Tanks are team fight monsters, their trade off is a weaker 1v1. They can't do it all, its just logic.

BobaFlautistOct 4, 20185 votes

Wait Malphite has unusually strong melee-dueling for a tank, he's like the worst possible example.

ZerglingOneOct 4, 20185 votes

Nowadays if you play full tank you better farm and can't trade

And then you singlehandedly win a team fight for your team because you have the strongest AoE CC in the game.

Your statement there is the epitome of why League sucks now more than ever, boiled down into a single statement. Tanks peak offensively at like 6-7000 gold and more or less always have. In other words 2 or 3 items and boots. Past there you let your carries do the rest.

Why do tanks have to be able to trade in lane? Why do they have to deal enough damage to kill their opponent? Can't they just be a setup artist? Honestly, what is wrong with that philosophy?

If you want a tank that deals damage instead of having big CC, pick a juggernaut.

RalanrOct 4, 20182 votes

I mean if you want tanks to kill their opponents without hurting them, it’s on you. I’m not sure if it’d be balanced if Malphite killed you by standing in lane.

As for why they have to trade in lane, it allows them to be interactive instead of sandbagging the lane. Otherwise, they might as well stay as supports than top and jungle.

ZerglingOneOct 5, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I mean if you want tanks to kill their opponents without hurting them, it’s on you. I’m not sure if it’d be balanced if Malphite killed you by standing in lane.

As for why they have to trade in lane, it allows them to be interactive instead of sandbagging the lane. Otherwise, they might as well stay as supports than top and jungle.

Supports don't farm in LoL. Don't give me that crap.

Picking a hard tank for top should have 2 connotations. 1 you aren't killing me alone without a mistake from me or a solid gank, but I can't kill you alone either. 2 if you're not also a tank, beware my jungler If they're a fighter.

RalanrOct 5, 20181 votes

So you’d rather we just go back to old Shen?

ZerglingOneOct 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So you’d rather we just go back to old Shen?

Old shen had really reliable healing and a relatively short CD escape. I think that's a pretty big edge case. He was top tier in pro play forever because he had everything and no mana constraints.

I'm saying that while it might not be good for spectators, farm lanes make for a genuinely better and more consistent mid and late game for everyone.

The current hyper aggressive early game is more fun to watch, but from a player's standpoint it's utterly exhausting and it removes distinct phases of the game, as the entire thing might as well be a massive deathmatch.

When people say that LoL sucks now, it's almost entirely because of that philosophy. Damage is high enough at all points of the game right now that there's basically always a 100-0 scenario. The damage has been added to shorten the game and make it more exciting to watch. But it just makes the game shitty to play because any lane could turn into an all you can eat buffet before you've even established yourself in lane, and the game is over before it even starts.

GayFluffyUnicornOct 5, 20181 votes

But then they need to lose something else. Can't be like right now where tanks outsustain, outtrade, outwaveclear you and scale monstrous into teamfights.

RalanrOct 5, 20181 votes

Tanks generally don’t have as much healing mechanics as fighters.

Except Maokai and Cho, but fuck Maokai and Cho.

HethaleanOct 4, 20184 votes

Tanks to support role only soon.

D357R0Y3ROct 4, 20184 votes

in which world is a tank unable to trade a melee fighter

what the actual fuck jesus

MOuHahaHAhahaaaaOct 5, 20181 votes

Try to play against fiora

D357R0Y3ROct 5, 20181 votes

the champ that deals x15 less damage than tanks in lane right now?

yea, I try it's SOOOOOOO HARDD

LeBlanc RoseOct 5, 20184 votes

Playing Talon vs Malphite I got first blood, had a pre good cs lead against him Didn't matter. He just build frozen heart, had over 300 armor. My w-q barely broke his shield.

iDarkWindOct 4, 20183 votes

I seriously would love to see a Kha'Zix beat a Malphite with 620 armor. Definitely. A fiora doing what, meanwhile, she's supposed, %true damage counters resistences and HP after all. Also, yes thats is what TANKS are supposed to be. I still have nightmares of the past seasons where tanks would literally build pure defense and would still outdamage you (not like it doesn't happen nowdays, just less frequently). People that remenber the meta of rushing item 3025 item 3068 item 3065 and be unkillable and kill everyone know what I am talking about.

WilyumOct 4, 20183 votes

This post speaks the truth, I am tired of having 3500 health, 300 armor, and a shield. Get into fight get killed in 2.5 seconds. Look at damage, more than half my health in true damage. People who say building health counters true damage are not playing the same game as me. If I spend all my gold on tank items I should be able to stay alive for more than 5 seconds in a fight. Instead I get oneshot like I was playing an assassin. No wonder everyone just plays damage champs now, either way you die in under 3 seconds might as well burst someone before you go.

RagnaveilOct 4, 20181 votes

Exactly.

crispy66Oct 4, 20183 votes

hey man you got a replay of that 3500 hp 300 armor and a shield dying in 2.5 seconds ? i mean i'm pretty sure you will provide a replay because what you described actually happened and is totally true 100% no way you made that up at all, this is the boards everyone here is a highly skilled honest player.

WilyumOct 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

hey man you got a replay of that 3500 hp 300 armor and a shield dying in 2.5 seconds ? i mean i'm pretty sure you will provide a replay because what you described actually happened and is totally true 100% no way you made that up at all, this is the boards everyone here a highly skilled honest player.

I'll have to check I was Nautilus against a kaisa and Yi. I'm on mobile right now but when I get home I'll see if it's still in my last 20 or not I spammed a bunch of games last 2 days. I don't know why you assume I'm lying that's not very friendly

crispy66Oct 4, 20182 votes

because you don't provide full details of what happened, you exaggerate trying to prove your point, least i know it could have been a fed yi 3 or more levels above you with full guinso stacks and full build, these are details you have to mention if you're trying to prove any point

WilyumOct 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

because you don't provide full details of what happened, you exaggerate trying to prove your point, least i know it could have been a fed yi 3 or more levels above you with full guinso stacks and full build, these are details you have to mention if you're trying to prove any point

We were same level both full build, game went to like 45 minutes or longer, just reber it was a long game. Kai sa was not fed she was negative and Yi was decently fed but like I said both full build so being fed doesn't matter. I righteous glory into fight cc half their team press R and then died. Killed me through my W and Iron elixar, and Locket. Took me down in just under 2.5 seconds, I know cause I texted my duo buddy about it. I know late game hyper carry full build but I mean 2.5 seconds is still fast for a full tank with shields

crispy66Oct 4, 20182 votes

Thank you for the details, that's how you should always provide context

WilyumOct 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Thank you for the details, that's how you should always provide context

Didn't feel like writing a paper to explain myself online during my statistics class but you are welcome

KFCeytronOct 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

In the past Riot made tanks to counter ad melee fighters and ad assassins.

Nowadays if you play full tank you better farm and can't trade against an ad melee fighter without getting obliterated.

Is that normal that a Malphite with 620 armor gets 1500 of true damage against a fiora or kha zix. I mean aren't tanks made to counter the ad fighters ? Because in the past that was their role.

It seems that now tanks are completely useless in laning phase and their job is only to r in teamfights and to be the punchingball...

Tanks are dead meat that's the only way riot sees us actually.

It's sad that a class that owned so much importance in the game is slowly getting put in the utility plan only.

Regarding the title, yes, tanks are supposed to be able to take hits (like a punching bag), and dish out CC, which is often in their ult. You've clearly laid out their role. Fantastic.

Why are you complaining about damage vs any particular setup and naming random armor values when it's true damage? Fiora's entire identity is a duelist who can fight tanks with % health true damage, and her kit works well with Conqueror. Kha, though... what's he getting true damage from? There's none in his kit, he doesn't use Conqueror, he doesn't use IE - red buff, maybe? But that's maybe 100 or so, not 1500. I don't know why you brought up Kha.

What do you propose a tank do in laning phase? There's no teamfight to disrupt, no allied carry to save, no enemy carry to dive, etc. Just farm up, try not to die to ganks, and protect the turret. That's kind of normal for laning phase, actually. Unless you think tanks should be able to get in on that "level 3 towerdive for a sweet first blood" action? It's not enough that Zed and Talon and LB and Bard do that? You want to do that as Malphite too, huh? Well guess what, you can join in at 6; just jam that wizard hat item 3089 on your head, poke with Q a couple times, and REQ for a kill. You won't be as tanky, but it sounds like that wasn't working out too well anyway.

Leto GTOct 4, 20182 votes

Amumu and nunu are super tanky once they get some items. Sion is very tanky and does decent damage aswell. There's not many tank doing fine but those surely do tank properly. I'm using conditioning on tanks now and it does help a lot honestly.

About tanks countering skirmisher, I'm not sure. I don't recall a moment where they were set to be a counter to them, on the contrary because of the sustain damage and lifesteal. There's two types of tanks, those who are meant to initiate and be the frontline aka Vanguards and those who're more support-based aka Wardens.

The Vanguards typically have CC but also have enough damage to be relevant threats to backlines for example amumu and malphite. Then, you've the Wardens that are rather meant to peel and disrupt fights whos kit heavily rely on hard CC such as braum or leona.

If any, Wardens would be the most approriate to counter fighters/slayers but only if they're combined with a DPS.

JackMcSnipeyzOct 4, 20182 votes

When tanks are strong and can trade and beat fighters in lane, fighters have no place top, if a tank outdamages/out duels a fighter, then picking a tank will always be better because tanks are also teamfighting monsters and bring a lot more than just damage (unlike fighters).

Pandemic PunchOct 4, 20182 votes

And now days, tanks can't even tank properly due to the ease of access to true damage or health% magic damage on adc's and top laners.

DragonSheaOct 4, 20182 votes

Tanks should exist to protect your teammates, they ain't real fighters and never will be. The damage they do is only to generate threat and weaken the enemy team enough so offensive classes can get a kill. That or that they have enough CC to completely lockdown their target so they can be blown up. For tanks its Durability > CC = damage = Mobility > utility for Vanguards and for wardens it's Durability > utility = CC = Mobility > damage.

Generally speaking tanks should be a counter for all carries and mages, but weak to fighters as they have enough durability to survive and fight back. Also, tanks in general have burst damage as it would help them in the laning phase during trading but in teamfights they will have lost their damage and have to focus on peeling or CC'ing the enemy team.

Sacred MathOct 4, 20181 votes

Tanks like Garen that are nasty and a disease to play against are a disease but tanks that are fun to play and play against like Hecarim and Ornn are awesome.

InfernapeOct 4, 20189 votes

Garen isn't a tank though. He's a fighter.

But yes, he is still a bullshit champ to play against.

DuskDaUmbreonOct 4, 20186 votes

Specifically, he's a juggernaut.

The definitions between tank classes or mage classes aren't as important as those between fighters and divers. Braum and Leona are somewhat similar in function (their job is to use CC and protect people, even if they're stronger in slightly different ways), but a Nasus is absolutely nothing like a XinZhao (where the only similarity is that they can both 1v3 and win).

caLoTRcaOct 4, 20181 votes

From my limited personal experiences, I would like to see it in this way. If a team has clear advantage/disadvantage for having a tank or not, the discussion stands. Otherwise, it will be best use of resources and strategic consideration.

AmWhaleIRLOct 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Is that normal that a Malphite with 620 armor gets 1500 of true damage against a fiora or kha zix. I mean aren't tanks made to counter the ad fighters ? Because in the past that was their role.

Kha'Zix isn't and has never been an "ad fighter". But we can just chop that up to you being very tilted and move on.
What game are you playing where Kha'Zix deals 1500 true damage to 620 armor Malphite? Although I guess that's just another tilt point.

If you want to be taken seriously, you really need to think about editing your post and only keeping the logical points included.

CIaymanOct 5, 20181 votes

#http://na.op.gg/champion/statistics Malph has a 6.5% pick rate (#9 top) and has a 52% or higher winrate against:

Tryndamere Pantheon Riven Fiora Renekton Aatrox Jax Camille Gangplank Kled

Sion has a 6.5% pick rate (#8 top) and has a 52% or higher winrate against:

Pantheon Camille Gangplank Olaf JarvanIV Riven Fiora Jax Tryndamere Darius Renekton Nautilus

Poppy has a 5% pick rate (#10 top) and a 52% or higher winrate against:

Tryndamere Renekton Aatrox Riven Jax Yasuo Fiora

Just because Mao isn't pick/ban status doesn't mean tanks are garbage now. This is the same problem we had with getting rid of the ADC monopoly on bot lane. ADCs weren't 90% of the top 10 picks so they were suddenly "garbage," despite the fact that 3 of the top 5 bot picks were ADCs, and 6 of the top 10 bot picks were ADCs. Then they got massive re-buffs that all but reverted the crit changes.

ChalizardOct 5, 20181 votes

Tanks are op and with adcs are the most important role in team. In lcs they pick sometimes even 7 tanks in a game, so I guess they are not just a punchingball.

Ornn, Maokai, poppy, Malphite, Gragas etc., they all have great damage with full tank builds, they are incredibly immune and have amazing utility on top of that. I don't get it, why do people keep saying that they are weak, when they have been the strongest class since I remember.

Even riot says that bruisers counter tanks, so I don't understand your point at all. Fiora, Darius, Rumble and so on, they are literally made to deal with tanks.