Poll: How would you feel if only supports and tanks had CC?

Paroe·Nov 4, 2016·2 votes·559 views

Just a simple question, the poll itself will be 'yes or no' but please post your answer below and explain your opinion. Personally i think the idea has its merits as a design philosophy; it makes non-damage roles as important as marksman and makes the team rely on skillful play rather than 1v1 picks with no counterplay because vayne condemns you and caitlyn roots you before dealing 3000 damage in four autos.

And by CC i mean hard AND soft; the exceptions being silence, grievous wounds, and grounded. when not a tank primary or a support primary the only way to get soft or hard CC would be via items.

10 Comments

TormentulaNov 4, 20162 votes

If some adcs, assassins, and mages didn't have CC they would all just be another adc, assassin, and mage.

CC gives identity and utility to everything so they actually have a reason to be picked rather than just doing damage they might not even get off. Supports have CC usually since their only merit to a team is to peel, protect, and vision control, otherwise without CC there would just be assassin supports.

Like without the CC utility, why would I ever play elise over nidalee, or without the self peel, why would I ever look at ashe over draven or lucian.

ParoeNov 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Worst Spider NA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gVpKfFNV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-04T16:56:11.540+0000)

If some adcs, assassins, and mages didn't have CC they would all just be another adc, assassin, and mage.

CC gives identity utility to everything so they actually have a reason to be picked rather than just doing damage they might not even get off.

But what of the champions with CC who very much so dont need them? Champions such as caitlyn, vayne, fiora, assassins in general?

CC isnt something every champion needs, and by limiting the CC to only primaries you create a situation in which tanks are useful for more than just being a meatshield and where supports are extremely useful at all stages of the game. Right now, tanks fall off pretty hard and if they ever get behind theyre flat useless except for being a CC bot. Supports are in a similar boat where. in professional play, theyre not even a major part of much.

[{quoted}](name=VGM Shadow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gVpKfFNV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-04T16:55:35.494+0000)

I say no because even if only tanks and supports had cc, people would find a way to play them elsewhere anyways, such as gnar mid, thresh adc etc. Besides, giving cc to a champions kit, gives them more variation, allowing more potential for outplays or just being a threat in general

Does gangplank need a slow ontop of a nuke thats almost impossible to dodge if the GP is good? Ontop of a massive AoE slow? Ontop of a cleanse? The answer is no - and riot has been taking away variety and build divergence for three seasons now. the argument of "but it makes them to samey" doesnt hold water anymore; especially when you have marksmen which has become sustained burst.

As for Gnar... Gnars only hard CC is his ult. And i doubt higher level play would really miss CC being shifted and the importance of tanks/supports being being increased. Not to mention the fact that actual tanks - not champions like gnar, who are strange - tend to have terrible AD ratios and meh bases in favor of utility.

TormentulaNov 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

But what of the champions with CC who very much so dont need them? Champions such as caitlyn, vayne, fiora, assassins in general?

CC isnt something every champion needs, and by limiting the CC to only primaries you create a situation in which tanks are useful for more than just being a meatshield and where supports are extremely useful at all stages of the game. Right now, tanks fall off pretty hard and if they ever get behind theyre flat useless except for being a CC bot. Supports are in a similar boat where. in professional play, theyre not even a major part of much.

The champion's kit syngerizes around the CC.

What assassin doesn't need CC? Think about this. Atm the assassins who don't have hard CC are: Katarina Khazix Akali Evelynn Kassadin Nidalee Talon Zed

They all have mobility to jump into a fight, and jump out. They get their combos and then run away off resets or continue fighting. They all have different methods of doing it (snowball resets, returning to a spot, instant burst to make teams 4v5, spammable mobility to chase, AD/AP)

Then you look at all the assassins who have hard CC and remove that CC: Rengar Ekko Leblanc Shaco

What are they? Rengar ults, jumps in, enemy flashes, and rengar looks like a boosted animal without his bola. He can't jump out and then why would anybody play kitty over mantis? Then rengar gets buffed hard and then why would anybody play mantis over kitty? Then the cycle continues until both have 2000 AD and then the cycle repeats with the nerfs. There is no identity between these two, but with CC given to one of them, rengar can catch people out for the team and secure kills easily, while kha can dive for kills and get out more freely. There is an identity between who to play in this case.

If you wanna look at mages, remove the CC from Azir and Orianna . Now what do either offer to the team at that point. They just spam abilities and attacks until people die, and that isn't always useful considering they give no utility at all.

Plus there is the slippery slope where if supports get CC but mages in general can't, then supports go mid ( Annie Morgana Zyra Sona Karma Velkoz ) and then at that point what is the identity of a mage when you can just go mid, do damage, and be useful to the team.

Then who's to say they don't wanna take CC off Anivia Lissandra Syndra Malzahar so they can support?

This is why the game is built around CC, it gives identity, utility, and prevents forever balancing issues with similarities when instead everybody can just do something majorly different and be balanced based on its own character rather than who's better than it.

AdrYuNov 4, 20161 votes

I say no because even if only tanks and supports had cc, people would find a way to play them elsewhere anyways, such as gnar mid, thresh adc etc. Besides, giving cc to a champions kit, gives them more variation, allowing more potential for outplays or just being a threat in general

FairyfleurNov 4, 20161 votes

Some mage's kits would fall out of managing any reliable damage. Like Ahri, and some mages would take a huge hit without utility, like Orianna. Mages would then have to depend even more on Rylai's then they do now, and Taliyah would also take a huge hit as you could never trigger the e by yourself.

RalanrNov 4, 20161 votes

It'd be hard to diversify if only tanks and supports had CC.

Tychusfindlay919Nov 4, 20161 votes

Would kind of kill Darius so no.

Truly PridefulNov 4, 20161 votes

A lot of champions would lose their reason for being picked. Without her ultimate, why would you ever pick Ashe? Does Lissandra's ultimate just become a nuke, if so why choose her over Syndra or Veigar? Darius isn't a tank, so does he lose his pull? The list goes on. This game would become very stale if champions outside of tanks and supports only did damage.

Sightless66Nov 4, 20161 votes

Um... no. CC is way too important to way too many characters to just remove it. There are only 7 characters in the game right now who lack CC, and they've all been given significant strengths to make up for the lack of it. Someone like Malzahar, Ashe and Lissandra don't have any purpose whatsoever without their powerful CC. Characters like TF and Taliyah have their primary gameplay mechanics designed around the assumption that they have a form of CC, and their kit completely stops functioning without access to it (TF's gank means jack shit without a gold card. Taliyah's W is her most important mechanic and enables her E, so you lose two mechanics at once). How is Darius ever going to do anything without a pull to actually get people in range?

You'd have to redesign the large majority of the game's characters with new abilities and new functions in order to make this work, and that's just to make the characters playable. Let's not even talk about making them distinct from each other. That's an entirely different, much more complicated problem.

On top of that, you'd be limiting the types of tanks and supports that can see play. Right now, I can opt into a CC-lite support very easily, assuming the rest of my team steps up to take the slack. If I'm playing a support and I'm one of only two characters on the team that can bring CC, I have no option except to play someone as heavy on CC as possible. I could never justify playing someone like Sona, Vel'Koz, or Karma when I could instead bring someone with more CC to bear. Why play any tank that isn't Nautilus if I need to pack as much CC as possible into one pick?

Your primary concerns seem to be that you think tanks and supports are weaker than other roles. If we assume that is true, why not just buff them? What's the reason to try and redesign the entire game from scrap? Why make such a restrictive design rule that introduces more problem than it solves?

10xDoubleliftNov 4, 20161 votes

it would make league much more interesting, since the only way you would be able to win fights is by having more skill or by having more tanks, i think just tanks and supports is little weak for cc but it would make league interesting