What is Riot's response to ranged utterly dominating melees without 2 or more gap closers?

IsIsGankedParis·Dec 27, 2014·8 votes·902 views

I'm talking the likes of Darius, Olaf, Garen, Volibear, etc.

On a scale of 1-10 10 being mastered, an 8 Darius will have trouble against a 4 Quinn top because his kit doesn't allow him to stick to Quinn after she blinds his W and jumps away from him.

Or vs Nidalee he manages to get in melee form of her but she pounces away with her 3 second cooldown on pounce.

Or as the trend is, ADC's are now in the top lane absolutely wrecking these guys, it's only a matter of time before top becomes the likes of melees with 2 or more gapclosers along with great sustain and tankyness are fighting ranged champions who have 2 or more ways to escape people.

What is your response to this Riot?

Oh wait I know it's to nerf the tank items.

23 Comments

JamareeDec 27, 20146 votes

With how GD whines about Lee Sin and Riven, I don't think they want melees with multiply gap closers.

SohleksDec 27, 20141 votes

{quoted}

With how GD whines about Lee Sin and Riven, I don't think they want melees with multiply gap closers.

For a second there I thought I was on GD

JamareeDec 27, 20144 votes

{quoted}

For a second there I thought I was on GD

Not just GD, but the forums in general complain about Riven and Lee Sin, so buff them, give champions more gap closers or do we make bruisers be able to build pure tank and out DPS every other lane and bring back the season 2 meta?

SohleksDec 27, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Not just GD, but the forums in general complain about Riven and Lee Sin, so buff them, give champions more gap closers or do we make bruisers be able to build pure tank and out DPS every other lane and bring back the season 2 meta?

Yeah I have been thinking lately... what would it take to make a champ like Shyvana top or Trundle top or even Olaf top popular again... what does it take and what is the cost of that?

It's usually super innate sustain from masteries/items and often the ability for champs to shove the lane really hard to force a farm off. Is this kind of top lane even interactive..?

For some reason I think I want hardcore bruiser beat em up champs to be competitive. We had that early last season with the jax/trundle/mundo/shyv/renek meta. What happened? Doran's shield and defense masteries got nerfed because they were so strong even supports like Sona were using them... And then those got toned down and eventually Lulu top was spammed and now we have Gnar and Lissandra. Now Irelia and Jarvan top are being used to "counter" those although that can very easily fall apart...

IMO Gnar needs some nerfs either so he's actually weak in lane or not godly late game... Liss? Not sure about Liss, she is good because she is a flex pick in draft mode and I'm not sure if even if we nerf Liss whether someone else would take her place like Annie. What I'd do is try to buff defense deeper masteries slightly; give it a little something specifically for laning or 1v1.

JamareeDec 27, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Yeah I have been thinking lately... what would it take to make a champ like Shyvana top or Trundle top or even Olaf top popular again... what does it take and what is the cost of that?

It's usually super innate sustain from masteries/items and often the ability for champs to shove the lane really hard to force a farm off. Is this kind of top lane even interactive..?

For some reason I think I want hardcore bruiser beat em up champs to be competitive. We had that early last season with the jax/trundle/mundo/shyv/renek meta. What happened? Doran's shield and defense masteries got nerfed because they were so strong even supports like Sona were using them... And then those got toned down and eventually Lulu top was spammed and now we have Gnar and Lissandra. Now Irelia and Jarvan top are being used to "counter" those although that can very easily fall apart...

IMO Gnar needs some nerfs either so he's actually weak in lane or not godly late game... Liss? Not sure about Liss, she is good because she is a flex pick in draft mode and I'm not sure if even if we nerf Liss whether someone else would take her place like Annie. What I'd do is try to buff defense deeper masteries slightly; give it a little something specifically for laning or 1v1.

I'm at a crossroad and can't think of a fix period. I don't want a return to a season 2 meta, while the champions I played flourish, one game that sticks in my head incredibly well was a game I played ADC. I did fairly well in lane, went 3/0 coming out, but the Olaf came out of lane, not fed, but did well. He had a randiuns, and a giant's belt, not only could I not do damage to him, I couldn't escape, and I was infinitely zoned away from the fight, we eventually lost because the pure tank Olaf with Randiuns, Thornmail, and Sunfire ran us over.

I want balance, but I don't want one role to utterly dominate nor do I want people blindly looking for buffs willy nilly.

KingsgraveDec 27, 20142 votes

Volibear had to be nerfed in the past because his MS increase allowed him to basically approach any carry he wanted, so I dont really know what you are talking about.

commit an heroDec 27, 20141 votes

Like Riot gives a fuck about non-gap closing melee.

AtheosisXDec 27, 20141 votes

Volibear destroys many ranged champs. I really wouldn't include him with the likes of Darius.

Leblancs BoobDec 27, 20141 votes

Evelynn

SachabotDec 27, 20141 votes

If you, as a melee character, manage to stick to Quinn, you're either a blind monk or she's much worse than you. Jumping away and harassing is the core of her gameplay, at least in lane.

It's not the you're wrong. It's that taking a ranged top is giving up something else (usually a frontliner), and so the team has to be built accommodating it.

FiraBurnDec 27, 20141 votes

Why would want to play a melee champ with no gap closers anyway? You want to be kited all day than have they enemy adc go all chat "Out played" or "rekt". They bad champs and riot have no way to fix this. So stop crying already unless you want riot to put gap closers on all champs.

Cale017Dec 27, 20141 votes

Don't take melee top laners without a gap closer when you see the enemy is taking Gnar/Quinn/Teemo/Vayne/Nidalee? Just a suggestion.

The point of them taking melee top laners is that it gives them relative safety during the laning phase, but you're also usually down either a tank or a fighter as a result, and there are more squishies on the team who can be blown up relatively easy, provided that it isn't a fed Gnar that you're dumb enough to go in on when he's nearing full rage.

That's the tradeoff. You lose out in terms of a teamfight because you're more susceptible to CC/heavy engages, but you'll win laning phase. Just regroup as skirmishes start breaking out through the midgame and punish them for having 3/5s of their team be squishy, vulnerable carries. 4/5s if they have a Soraka/Sona/Nami/Annie support.

IsIsGankedParisDec 27, 20141 votes

Blind pick, draft you pick before they do, what do you want me to do ask them if they are gonna pick them?

Cale017Dec 27, 20142 votes

[{quoted}](name=Varin Omega,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gRYoWEjM,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2014-12-27T08:33:13.686+0000)

Blind pick, draft you pick before they do, what do you want me to do ask them if they are gonna pick them?

Blind pick, that's the risk you take. If you don't want to play against a swarm of easy win champs, don't play blind.

Draft pick, that's just the name of the game. The strategy starts in champ select. If you're picking early, don't pick someone who's easily countered by the enemy because you're just opening yourself up to being destroyed when you do that. It isn't Riot's fault when someone picks a melee without a gap closer and the enemy picks a ranged champion to beat them in lane. It's your fault for not picking safer.

LearndingDec 27, 20141 votes

I found Riot's response,

Ariel the CruelDec 27, 20141 votes

. . . it's only a matter of time before top becomes the likes of melees with 2 or more gapclosers . . .

Lissandra Go ahead and make it 3. I don't mind. Don't forget to have your jungler dive me while you're at it.

Oh, and I'm building AP tank. Just thought you'd like to know.

SaevumDec 27, 20141 votes

The Lee Sin and Darius chemical harmony: if Darius fails at pulling you, Lee Sin solves the matter with a roundhouse-Chuck-style kick. Its priceless to see, painful to suffer and hilarious to pull. Ha! 'pull'.

DWT12345Dec 27, 20141 votes

how about zed vs nearly every mage in game? how about freaking every assassin dominating mages?

ErijianDec 27, 20141 votes

Just make them resilient to one type of CC while weak to another, ex. allow Garen to have built-in Slow Reduction while his Q's Speed Boost is active. Does it negate being able to be knocked back, snared, or stunned? Nope, it just gives him resilience to one type of CC while the others would technically be his weakness.

Though I can't really think of a way that could work for Darius, unless it was applied to his Passive Speed Boost when he has stacks on an enemy, which would allow him to stick better but it'd be clunky in the long run.