Whether he's ahead or behind.
He needs a rework, even if its very minor.
######No, I haven't faced a Nasus recently. Bring on the downvotes, Nasus mains.
Jbels14 votesSplitpush champions in general feel bad to play against. It doesn't matter how good you are at the champion, all that matters is that you can smack minions with an ability, ram your head against towers until they die, and then reach a critical mass where nobody can 1v1 you. This is Tryn and Nasus in a fucking nutshell.
AFilthyCaitMain2 votes
Low elo stomper
RainXBlade1 votesThere's a reason why split pushing is such a fucking hassle of a tactic. I get that split pushing is a smart tactic, but it starts to get on my nerves when a Tryndamere won't stop running to top even if he's 1/9 just because he bought a Shiv + IE and can just clear a wave in just 2 - 4 hits. At least when someone like Yasuo splits, you can actually catch him out.
Blåbæret11 votesTryndamere is a special kind of cancer though.
DeathBurst1 votesThing is, if he's 1/9, someone on your team should be able to hold him off. Congratz, you just made Trynd useless.
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesThe thing is that you might need the champion you send top to win fights whereas trynd doesn't. Yes, you can engage 4v5 and go 4-1 or whatever, but congratulations you just lost your inhibitor and he is STILL going in. I shouldn't have to send someone to deal with the 1/9 tryndamere (usually the tank which means we have no engage in the 4v4 because sending anyone else usually ends up with them getting dove by Tryndamere using his Ghost and skill button of R) when he is feeding his brains out. Splitpushing warps the game so much around one person that it isn't healthy because 90% of the roster can usually not deal with them because they are squishy and WILL die to the Tryndamere during his 7 seconds of "fuck your damage". It is arguably worse with Nasus because Nasus actually has CC and builds tanky to the point he doesn't need to not die for 7 seconds when he has over 200 of each resist and can drain tank off you anyway.
SnakDatSmilesBak1 votesIsn't it 5 seconds?
Mighty Mortein1 votesSplitpush champions in general feel bad to play against. It doesn't matter how good you are at the champion, all that matters is that you can smack minions with an ability, ram your head against towers until they die, and then reach a critical mass where nobody can 1v1 you. This is Tryn and Nasus in a fucking nutshell.
And if you don't respond to their push fast enough, you've lost the towers in the lane they're pushing.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesDepends on the champ. Camille, jax, jayce are all champs i enjoy playing against and it's not too bad to stop their splitpush. Problem are champs like nasus and trynd you can never solo stop from doing what they do.
SweedishGunner2 votesDon't forget Jax too.
Crett10 votesi wish they'd make him the raid boss champion and not the pseudo tryndamere monstrosity he ends up being where he just pushes all day because that's all he's good at
i love his thematics and some of the ideas in his kit but i agree, nasus can end up falling short on the fun factor. no matter what they should keep him an infinitely scaling champ because that's a huge part of his fantasy, but that scaling should translate to something that is more conducive to actual... interesting gameplay beyond two shotting towers and having a hard time doing much else
RankOneUganda2 votesi wish they'd make him the raid boss champion and not the pseudo tryndamere monstrosity he ends up being where he just pushes all day because that's all he's good at
i love his thematics and some of the ideas in his kit but i agree, nasus can end up falling short on the fun factor. no matter what they should keep him an infinitely scaling champ because that's a huge part of his fantasy, but that scaling should translate to something that is more conducive to actual... interesting gameplay beyond two shotting towers and having a hard time doing much else
riot wants to balance melee carries in away without nerfing ranged damage dealers and cc.
which isn't possible without making them toxic really. look at yasuo.
BALDG1VEN BOOMER10 votesMaybe in lower elo since all they do is afk farm stacks, but in higher elos it's actually pretty fun playing around a split pusher since they can easily open up the map to contest or force objectives.
Ben Sharpio2 votesyou mean in higher elos where they're smart enough to FORCE you to fight 4 v 5's all day while nasus is afk farming top lane? This is the problem with having splitpushers on your team... If you're not facing actual dumbasses they'll force you to take fights or lose all kinds of objectives and kills. All for what? So he can POSSIBLY scale ?
Spoofghoul1 votesit works both ways
the nasus can also force you to send someone to him to stop his push in which case your team can force 4v3
The trick is to facilitate the splitpush with a teamcomp which has hard cc and waveclear to either stall for him or to be able to force a fight when they react to the splitpush
Melledoneus3 votes[{quoted}](name=TSM Piccaboo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLruZZsy,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-09-14T22:21:18.946+0000)
it's actually pretty fun playing around a split pusher since they can easily open up the map to contest or force objectives.
Tell that to the Xin top who fed him 4 kills in 3 minutes then started flaming the jungler.
Yes, I know I'm not high elo, but god damn Nasus is like a single target Illaoi now without the weaknesses.
Tychusfindlay9182 votesTell that to the Xin top who fed him 4 kills in 3 minutes then started flaming the jungler.
Yes, I know I'm not high elo, but god damn Nasus is like a single target Illaoi now without the weaknesses.
Except he gets shat on by most bruisers if you have the brains to not fight under spirit fire, and his early still has ALL the same weaknesses intact. In fact, his early is even WEAKER now that his e has % shred, it literally will only shred off like 5 or so points of armor instead of the 20 it used to shred at level 1.
He gets ganked a few times and gets behind and he gets fucktified for the rest of the game. Teamfights is still same old business, and yes, if you 5 man run it down into his inhibitor he HAS to back and deal with it as a 5v5. There are options, and there's a reason why nasus still isn't at 50% win rate.
GayFluffyUnicorn4 votesExcept no jungler ganks top frequently up until master 150 lp. Diamond junglers are pure retarded. Corrupting potion, his Passive and dorans shield are enough to let him free farm and never die in lane if he doesn't overcommit. So a bruiser always runs against the clock because he can't 1v1 his stupidly overloaded ult and you have to rely on your jungler to dive nasus early.
Kloqdq1 votesWhen I jungle I camp top like it's my second home because it is and always has been the easiest lane to gank in my mind.
TiltoverEnforcer8 votesI think it's primarily because his kit is non-interactive for the most part. It takes his base stats and the enemy base stats and changes them without introducing new mechanics other than AoE DoT on his E and Ultimate.
His passive? More lifesteal. His Q? More damage on auto attacks. His W? Slows the opponent. His E? Reduces armor. His R? Gives bonus hp/resistances.
Right now it just seems like Nasus' niche is making his stats better than the opponents, and winning straight off of that. There's hardly any chance for microgame interaction with his kit. I feel like Illaoi is the raid boss niche Riot was going for with Nasus.
And I like playing Nasus.
It Hertz When IP5 votesYou realize that, simplified to that level, MOST champions sound like that.
Brascus1 votesThere's a lot of old champs that are balanced around binary damage.
It Hertz When IP1 votesExactly.
Brascus3 votesIt's not a good thing lmao, it's actually pretty terrible xD
If their stats and items have too much synergy they become pick/ban because there's no counterplay to empowered autos. Riot plays favorites with who gets to not be trash if you're an old champ with an old kit due to lcs.
A lot of newer more well rounded champs will still get passed up for stat sticks that are allowed to have a power curve beyond logical means. Nasus was garbage before on purpose and buffing him doesn't solve his problems his kit is too outdated. All old champs need a Warwick type update so they have a kit that can be feasibly balanced.
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesNasus at least is SOMEWHAT less linear the one of the premier statcheckers in league known as Trundle. They are both REALLY dated and problematic in their design of straight up crunching numbers and knowing the outcome of a fight before it even starts, but Trundle is the PREMIER statchecker that steals 4 stats from you and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.
BlunterMonk4 votesThat's a pretty bold statement, I've never had less fun fighting with or against Nasus before. And definitely not less then yasuo for example.
I think he does a crap ton of damage and is tanky as hell at the same time, but that's only if you let him farm forever. I love it when a Nasus on my team comes around at 15-20 minutes with a ton of stacks to a teamfight around dragon pit and just overpowers the entire enemy team. Then snowball towers down. And of course I hate being on the receiving side of Nasus late game power.
All you gotta do to counter him is mess up his farm early on.
Dokueki Kenshin3 votesSee, in theory, and at higher levels of play, I would agree with you. It's not hard to understand the concept behind Nasus's counter play. You mess up his farming, you keep him from getting stacks, and you eat him. GGWP.
In most realities, however, this doesn't work out as neatly.
In order to truly counter Nasus, you need someone with strong early game harass AND strong towerdiving potential (or at least hideous amounts of burst poke, because any Nasus worth their salt can farm and sustain off their passive under tower literally for free). Towerdiving save in a few cases without regular coordination from your jungler is suicide; Wither will quickly turn the tables or at least force a trade in his favor. Other than perhaps a Jayce or GP (or playing an assassin top lane instead), you can't REALLY shut down a Nasus.
Though I generally hate infinitely stacking abilities (they're essentially abilities that will eliminate any and all counterplay just with time), I'm not gonna get into that sticky argument. Instead, here's what I would suggest:
Change his passive.
The whole "scholar turned warrior" motif not being fulfilled aside (he could defoes use a mini-rework), his passive essentially makes his proported counterplay non-functional.
"It's alright, guys, I'll play a harass laner, like Kennen or Teemo!"
Lifesteals and farms under tower
...
If you compel Nasus to make the choice between having a splash of sustain and going full tank, you make his intended counter play more viable while also helping diversify his potential builds.
I'm a silver scrub, I know, but that's just my take on it.
Also, anyone who's willing to give their input on the following, I'd really appreciate it:
Sasogwa1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dokueki Kenshin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLruZZsy,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2017-09-15T14:30:18.032+0000)
See, in theory, and at higher levels of play, I would agree with you. It's not hard to understand the concept behind Nasus's counter play. You mess up his farming, you keep him from getting stacks, and you eat him. GGWP.
In most realities, however, this doesn't work out as neatly.
In order to truly counter Nasus, you need someone with strong early game harass AND strong towerdiving potential (or at least hideous amounts of burst poke, because any Nasus worth their salt can farm and sustain off their passive under tower literally for free. Towerdiving save in a few cases without regular coordination from your jungler is suicide; Wither will quickly turn the tables or at least force a trade in his favor. Other than perhaps a Jayce or GP (or playing an assassin top lane instead), you can't REALLY shut down a Nasus.
Though I generally hate infinitely stacking abilities (they're essentially abilities that will eliminate any and all counterplay just with time), I'm not gonna get into that sticky argument. Instead, here's what I would suggest:
Change his passive.
The whole "scholar turned warrior" motif not being fulfilled aside (he could defoes use a mini-rework), his passive essentially makes his proported counterplay non-functional.
"It's alright, guys, I'll play a harass laner, like Kennen or Teemo!"
Lifesteals and farms under tower
...
If you compel Nasus to make the choice between having a splash of sustain and going full tank, you make his intended counter play more viable while also helping diversify his potential builds.
I'm a silver scrub, I know, but that's just my take on it.
Also, anyone who's willing to give their input on the following, I'd really appreciate it:
Nasus lifesteal is kinda overrated. He doesn't just lifesteal everything. And his earlygame is really denyable, for several reasons :
However I will agree that he's easier to play in lower elo, because you just don't get denied as much and snowball drastically off stacks more easily. But well, every champ is easier to play in lower elo tbh. And Nasuses there are not as good as high elo Nasuses as well. Though I understand his strength can seem really overbearing there.
Dokueki Kenshin1 votesYeah, I'll agree that skill does have a huge part to do with it. I simply find it frustrating because even if I do my part, harass him early game, even get kills, and then try to hard push objectives and end the game quickly before he can recover, it rarely ever works out that way. He can potentially solo-carry his team by continuing to follow a strat that failed during the entire landing phase. You can't ever afford to have someone out of lane against a Nasus, meaning that you can't push the advantage of your good lane as a top laner.
Also, I imagine a lot of the grief is from the fact that most League players are Bronze or Silver, and most people's journeys in the game are self-guided. Yeah, I'll watch as many instructional videos and try to use the concepts in game, but sometimes you need someone to demonstrate it while they're playing with you. I think Nasus brings that shortcoming to the forefront for me personally, hence the frustration. I finally have a consistent group now, so hopefully it'll become easier with time.
Salson3 votesBramble was the final nail in the coffin of idea that Nasus can teamfight in any shape or form.
He can still stomp, but it's too inconsistant and overall rare.
He has good model though, so he should be a good candidate for Xin/RekSai level rework.
Jet Sett1 votesIn what way does Bramble Vest stop Nasus teamfighting? Do you mean it makes focusing the tank a bad idea?
Salson1 votesNasus has no way of reaching the backline. In teamfights he is 'supposed' to mow down the frontline with repeated Qs and defense reduction, while drain tanking with his passive.
Bramble stops the drain part and he just gets melted up by focused fire.
Juggernauts are generally designed as a slow drain tanky anti frontline characters. The class that optimally hurts tanks the most now gets punished for hitting them.
Jet Sett1 votesMakes sense. I was always believed that melee sustain champions were affected more by Bramble Vest than ranged champions with lifesteal. Especially champs like Nasus and Aatrox whose sustain is a main piece of their kit.
Kloqdq3 votesIs the champion annoying to deal with? Yes, I 100% agree. Is the champion any good? No, far from it.
Nasus is just one of those champions. His design is old and the work done to him is there to try and make him playable. Of course he is pretty bad in mostly every case because that is the nature of a champion that's only means of hitting you is running in a straight line at you. I think a small rework could help buffer out the bads in the doge top, but I don't think that will happen when we have Rengar with his terminal illness along with many, many more.
Squey3 votesgames with Nasus in them are just less fun for everyone involved.
We all have a champion we feel that way about. For most people on the forums its Yasuo. For me its Gangplank
Divewing1 votesFor me it's Heimerdinger.
"No one get's to have fun!"
Brotha2 votesAs much as I enjoy playing him, I agree with you. He's always going to stay top and be useless until the 25 + min mark. A change to his W, like a Karma-esque tether that makes him immune to cc from every target but the one he whithers could be an interesting change. It would still grand him the slow/atk speed debuff but a champion could remove it by knocking them back, snaring, or stunning them and falling back out of the tethers range.
Weight of Law2 votesHow can you knock him back if he's cc immune?
Brotha1 votesHow can you knock him back if he's cc immune?
Sorry I didn't say it clearly. Only the person who he whithers would be able to cc him. Similar to old poppy ult but only from a CC point of view. Of course breaking his whither tether should have some sort of reward, like doubling the cooldown on it before he can use it again. It would be a good way to force someone to use their CC on him, a tank, as well as causing others to waste their cc. It's just a idea.
Rockem Sockm2 votesNasus was buffed in multiple patches when he didn't need one. Just like Cho they are trying to force him into the Lcs.
He can freeze lane amd farm all day. He can start Doran ring, put a few points in e and prevent any freeze easily.
He has all the tools he needs to farm.
Unless you main a Certain counterpick it ruins the game.
He isn't fun to play with or lane/play against. His fanbase is as toxic and vocal as Rivers.
He will always be a low elo stomper because coordinateed teams in high elo know how play around his mid game spike(FYI he's a mid game champ).
The low cooldown Q when he Ults was the dumbest buff ever.
Tychusfindlay9189 votes[{quoted}](name=Rockem Sockm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLruZZsy,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-09-15T02:48:50.269+0000)
Nasus was buffed in multiple patches when he didn't need one. Just like Cho they are trying to force him into the Lcs.
He can freeze lane amd farm all day. He can start Doran ring, put a few points in e and prevent any freeze easily.
He has all the tools he needs to farm.
Unless you main a Certain counterpick it ruins the game.
He isn't fun to play with or lane/play against. His fanbase is as toxic and vocal as Rivers.
He will always be a low elo stomper because coordinateed teams in high elo know how play around his mid game spike(FYI he's a mid game champ).
The low cooldown Q when he Ults was the dumbest buff ever.
"when he didnt need them"
sorry kiddo, 45.6% win rate and near zero play rate was a clear indicator that he needed a buff badly. And even right now he still sits at 48.7% despite the fucking whining in this stupid thread.
GayFluffyUnicorn3 votesNo he doesn't need a buff and if you had a clue about this game you would know this. You don't just randomly buff a broken kit in the hopes those buffs will completely overpower him to the point they completely negate any weakness because after all his biggest weakness being a useless piece of shit outside of sidelanes WILL NOT CHANGE. All buffs will only make him more and more frustrating to play against and not help him a single bit in winning more games.
Tychusfindlay9182 votesNo he doesn't need a buff and if you had a clue about this game you would know this. You don't just randomly buff a broken kit in the hopes those buffs will completely overpower him to the point they completely negate any weakness because after all his biggest weakness being a useless piece of shit outside of sidelanes WILL NOT CHANGE. All buffs will only make him more and more frustrating to play against and not help him a single bit in winning more games.
You can be frustrated all you want, I still can put nasus in the dirt, just understand the champion. Also his kit is not inherently broken, otherwise after the pretty hefty buffs he would be killing it but he's not.
Bobovich5 votesDude, read what is being said.
Nasus sucks in teamfights. Low winrate champion. Riot basically buffs his laning strength, a lot of people find him unfun to lane against. Now Nasus still sucks in teamfights. Still a low winrate champion.
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesNo numbers are going to change Nasus. His kit is inherently flawed and would need MASSIVE number changes to break 50% winrate in which case he becomes the most frustrating champion to play against. He needs a rework and to sit in the dirt until then because if they keep pushing buffs after buffs he turns into Akali after they buffed her 5(?) times after her assassin update and is now a drain tank that you simply cannot stomp in lane top lane as half the roster and then turns around and kills you with Revolver and level 6.
Jet Sett1 votesIt could also be an indicator that he needs a rework. Especially with his linear gameplay designed around farming and pushing and nothing else but. He's a simple champion with no inherent decision-making built into him, and an ability that can drastically reduce his major weakness. If he's ever strong he will be too strong until Riot makes some changes to the fundamentals of his kit. Until he gets reworked in some way, doesn't have to be a full rework, he'll never be strong because of his kit.
Rockem Sockm2 votes"when he didnt need them"
sorry kiddo, 45.6% win rate and near zero play rate was a clear indicator that he needed a buff badly. And even right now he still sits at 48.7% despite the fucking whining in this stupid thread.
Sorry kid, he will never have a good winrate. He is a niche champion and will always remain one without a completely new kit. He will never be a great late game or team fight champion. Riot continues to spam buff to make playing against him more toxic but it actually does nothing for his or the games over all health.
Plenty of champions have been left in the dirt because they have niche kits that are too difficult for riot to balance. Nasus and you aren't some special snowflake.
Tychusfindlay9181 votes[{quoted}](name=Rockem Sockm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gLruZZsy,comment-id=000c00000002,timestamp=2017-09-15T23:21:29.101+0000)
Sorry kid, he will never have a good winrate. He is a niche champion and will always remain one without a completely new kit. He will never be a great late game or team fight champion. Riot continues to spam buff to make playing against him more toxic but it actually does nothing for his or the games over all health.
Plenty of champions have been left in the dirt because they have niche kits that are too difficult for riot to balance. Nasus and you aren't some special snowflake.
What's funny is that even assuming if youre side was true, nasus and I are special snowflakes because we got our buffs.
YDB.
notice me Sin pi2 votesu misspelled yasuo
