if riot make support champions more interesting, people will join games way faster... 95% who play support champions everyday is because of AUTOFILL not because they wanted to? and by having almost 0 experience as a supp role , you tend to feed/lose the game .
Beldair2 votesIts not the champions but the Support Role itself that is unpopular.
Every MOBA (minus Heroes of the Storm and Smite) and MMO has a small population of Support Players (healers, tanks, etc).
It's the mind set of the players that dictates the popularity of the roles. Most people like being the lone wolf, dps, in your face/slam you with spells kind of player.
chipndip11 votesYeah, but much like how LoL was the spearhead in the MOBA franchise, it's now the spearhead in fixing the support problem, so now we gotta fix it.
Aptest2 votesThe champion pool is ok. there is a lot of variety.
problem is the role. While champions come in many flavors, they are required to conform to doing the same thing which nobody likes: defend a spoiled brat while the rest of the team has fun.
the solution: make more incentive for jungler and mid to defend ADC. or make ADC role not mandatory. or make ADC more self sufficient.
chipndip11 votesIt isn't the role. It's the itemization, which bleeds into the role anyway. We have variety in champions. We have NO variety in support items. They all cater to a very defensive play style, even if other supports don't synch that well with only using that style/players don't want to play that style alone. The role as a whole suffers for it.
Aptest1 votesI do not agree that support items are a problem:
Agency (and also offense) is something you get buy buying the following: mobility, knowledge, CC, tankyness and damage (only if it is enough damage to kill the target). These are the stats that allow you to approach the fed enemy mid and go, "yo bro, come at me and be my B!@#h" without getting nuked for free.
most support items have these stats on them. What's missing in the support arsenal is "you can't catch me even if you have high base MS and 17 dashes", "I will push the lane and you will like it", "leave me alone with your tower? your choice your problem", "your jungle is now mine, MINE".
Items like Locket and Redemption are inherently lacking in agency because their optimal use case is REACTIVE. however there are other items which are decent. Unfortunately ZZrot is getting nerfed specifically on the amount of agency you can buy with it (siege is a low agency scenario whereas side lane pressure is a high agency scenario).
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my opinion is that the items are overall ok right now. obviously can be better. Still missing items that have amazing and fun to use actives (heal is not fun to use) but other than that its fine.
problem is mostly that some roles lack agency to such an extent that they require a chaperone, whereas the other roles that can fill that purpose flat-out shirk the idea of having this responsibility in favor of "it is my job to kill the other guy, you def the adc".
So what we need to see is strong items for jungle and mid that support a "protect the adc" style of gameplay from them, and maybe also removal of chilling smite and challenging smite.
chipndip11 votesI do not agree that support items are a problem:
Agency (and also offense) is something you get buy buying the following: mobility, knowledge, CC, tankyness and damage (only if it is enough damage to kill the target). These are the stats that allow you to approach the fed enemy mid and go, "yo bro, come at me and be my B!@#h" without getting nuked for free.
You get agency through buying offenses. You get safety through buying defenses. Mobility, cc, and damage offer pressure and presence. These tools assert your dominance in the lane, hence the use of the term "agency". Tankiness and knowledge (warding tools) are inherently safety tools. You can use offensive mechanics in a defensive way, and vice versa, but the default is that offensive mechanics make you a bigger immediate threat while defensive mechanics mitigate the offensive ones.
most support items have these stats on them. What's missing in the support arsenal is "you can't catch me even if you have high base MS and 17 dashes", "I will push the lane and you will like it", "leave me alone with your tower? your choice your problem", "your jungle is now mine, MINE".
Most support items don't offer agency. They offer safety. Insurance. They don't make people feel like they're really involved in proceedings, and that's a good deal of the issue with satisfaction in the role. Campy, defensive itemization and play leads to less interaction in fights, and that's the very thing we're shoving into the role by the fistful.
What supports are missing are:
Items that fit supports that want to roam
Items that fit supports that want to poke with spells
Items that fit supports that want to lead an engage
Basically anything offensive at all is what we're lacking, and thus satisfaction in the role is low. We have CHAMPS that would do these things, but they build nothing but defensive items, which don't offer a feeling of agency, but just give you insurance. Defensive items are fine, but not when they're the only options, which is the problem we have now that Riot doubles down on rather than fixing.
Items like Locket and Redemption are inherently lacking in agency because their optimal use case is REACTIVE. however there are other items which are decent. Unfortunately ZZrot is getting nerfed specifically on the amount of agency you can buy with it (siege is a low agency scenario whereas side lane pressure is a high agency scenario).
Anything defensive is reactive, hence what I said earlier. Also, due to how strong these items are, any other possible item plays second fiddle to these two items.
ZZ isn't even a support item...and wouldn't afk side lane pressuring be low agency while actively sieging a turret would be high agency?
my opinion is that the items are overall ok right now. obviously can be better. Still missing items that have amazing and fun to use actives (heal is not fun to use) but other than that its fine.
Items aren't ok at all. We have the same problem we had last season, just doubled. Aoe sustain support items need to legit be removed from the game. They crowd out ALL THE OTHER CHOICES. Tell me one time you'd rather have Ardent over Redemption? It's impossible because of the sheer amount Redemption heals versus a petty 20 life steal and 20% attack speed boost. Riot's on record saying they wanted to fix Locket being so mandatory. All they did was make it MORE mandatory. A team-wide heal will never not be mandatory.
So what we need to see is strong items for jungle and mid that support a "protect the adc" style of gameplay from them, and maybe also removal of chilling smite and challenging smite.
We don't need to make mid/jg players defend the adc more than we need better itemization choices so we can approach how we support the team in more varied ways than just building Locket and Redemption.
Aptest1 votesAgency is your ability to make decisions in the game. Generally you make decision for other players in the game who then have to deal with your decision whether it is in a positive way (participate in a play) or in a negative one (escape the 4-man gank). Having to deal with other people making decisions over your head all the time is low agency, whereas being the guy who is making the decisions is high agency.
Participating in a siege is a low agency scenario because the decision to siege is subject to the concent of the rest of your team. Also usually the decision is initiated by the junlger. OTOH dropping zzrot on a side lane interacts directly with the other team who now have to respond (=high agency situation).
let's look at the various scenarios that you've presented:
Items that fit supports that want to roam
what do i need to be an effective roamer?
I need to get everywhere fast so i need to have good out of combat mobility.
I need to be able to force the fight to happen, so burst mobility to counter "an escape" and also i need good "catch skills" (good ranged CC or melee CC coupled with high quality burst mobility).
I need the enemy mid / jungler to not simply turn on me and kill me for free. So either enough damage to finish them, or enough tankyness to survive them until my allies come in - both work.
Also knowing where the prey is, is very good if you want to kill an opponent
where can I get these stats?
- high OOC mobility
- burst mobility
- long range catch skill (on a stick)
- mobility + i don't die fast.
- vision is king
Items that fit supports that want to poke with spells
what do I need for effect here? Mostly I want damage: either cheap damage, or additional spell effects that compensate for me only having 1 damage skill. As a support, I an benefited by high base values so penetration is preferred to AP.
Mana regeneration is a trap. I have enough mana and making each individual spell stronger is much better than being able to put yourself at risk 1000 times to micro-poke.
where can i get these stats?
- AP with AP. also some AP.
- honorable mention
- both pen and an additional spell damage effect to make up for lacking follow up items and a full damage kit
- need more spells. for the damages. This also has the advantage of providing movement speed which is good for a poke pattern.
Items that fit supports that want to lead an engage
This i feel is identical in needs to the roaming item set. see above.
khorney1 votesyah had a vayne who went deathfire grasp..... fed her ass off
Ahristocats1 votesSupport is already interesting, the ROLE ITSELF is godlike
what isn't interesting is enchenters except 
chipndip11 votesHalf the issue is the itemization, but no one will listen so fuck it. Perpetual auto-fill!
