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the resolve tree is complete and utter trash.

Critmaster Garen··8 votes·1,573 views

there is no incentive to go into that tree anymore. except maybe for junglers simply due to the lack of options when it comes to a different keystone. not even because its anywhere near good, but only because no other keystone helps them jungling.

after the nerf to grasp, its in my opinion not even worth for fighters anymore. the only point of going into that tree was for the damage/sustain of grasp. now you would be only going into that tree for a damage keystone since the health return is neglectable.

but why do that, when ferocity and cunning have so many damage amplification masteries down to their keystone, that just going into resolve for grasp would be pointless?

every auto attack focused fighter should go into ferocity for fervor. everyone else should go into cunning for stormraider or thunderlords. else youre doing something wrong.

for season 7, can we get a defensive mastery tree with actual defensive masteries instead of a utility tree with some laughable base health regeneration bonuses and 2 flat damage reduction against auto attacks?

maybe an actual defensive keystone for solo laners aswell, if youre going to keep the concept?

22 Comments

Swiftstrike45 votes

The resolve tree is pretty bad, but it is weak because they don't want non-tank like champions putting points in that tree. At least, I think that is why Riot intentionally made it not too appealing or strong.

They nerfed grasp, bond of stone, buffed/changed veteran's scar, and unyielding (I think it was 6% and then they made it 5%).

The tree did have a lot of game impact in the top lane when grasp was strong, to the point that it was problematic. My biggest issue is that most of lower tier masteries in that tree are pretty weak in comparison to the other trees.

Runic Armor, Swiftness, and Perseverance are probably the best masteries in that tree, but all of them are just "OK." I do think if they buffed the masteries though, we would see too many people run in that tree.

I think some of the lower tier masteries in that tree just need to change completely. Recovery, Explorer, and Veteran's Scars are all pretty bad and Legendary guardian I think is terrible compared to swiftness.

I have concluded that Strength of the Ages is probably the best keystone mastery in this tree because it is the only one the helps with effective tanking and permits junglers to build damage, but still get a little tanky. However, when you compare it to other keystones, it is not nearly as impactful early in the game. Most keystones have noticeable impact early on or constant impact. SoTA has virtually no impact early and moderate impact later.

Critmaster Garen4 votes

and why is it still the only tree that didnt get any attention this season except for nerfs?

both ferocity and cunning had useful masteries added.

Gary B Enkelis2 votes

Maybe it was nerfed because it was too strong and the others were buffed because they were too weak? That's generally how nerfing and buffing works?

Swiftstrike43 votes

Unyielding used to be Enchanted Armor which provided 10% bonus armor MR with max points in season five. It was much better then.

Veigarisgod11 votes

What? Maokai Amumu DrMundo Nidalee Hecarim Poppy and more still go way into the defensive tree...

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

What? Maokai Amumu DrMundo Nidalee Hecarim Poppy and more still go way into the defensive tree...

there is no defensive tree anymore. just look what the tree actually offers. its mostly miniscule sustain that is vastly outshadowed by the damage masteries in cunning and ferocity.

10% crit damage reduction, 4% damage reduction against aoe abilities, 4% generic damage reduction, adaptive armor, flat resistances, compared to previous seasons it all has been removed.

on the other hand cunning and ferocity still grant % damage increases, resistance penetration and other damage amplifications.

what does resolve have left? 2 or 3 defensive masteries from last season that have been gutted, a damage keystone, and some health regeneration and utility.

and since its nerf, strength of the ages is nothing but a damage keystone anymore, that cant keep up with fervor. not even close.

Veigarisgod12 votes

*resolve tree.

on the other hand cunning and ferocity still grant % damage increases, resistance penetration and other damage amplifications.

what does resolve have left? 2 or 3 defensive masteries from last season that have been gutted, a damage keystone, and some health regeneration and utility.

this was the single most dummed down and biased explanation of masteries i have ever heard.

% damage increases

it's a very tiny amount of damage. Like 3%.

resistance penetration

the resolve tree grants bonus resistances.

2 or 3 defensive masteries from last season that have been gutted

Not really but OK.

a damage keystone

let's flatly ignore the %damage reduction and bonus health

utility.

i hope that by "utility" you mean one of two sources that grant tenacity in the entire game (excluding champion kits)

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

*resolve tree.

this was the single most dummed down and biased explanation of masteries i have ever heard.

t1: 2 hp 5 - a microscopic amount of health regeneration 5% bonus resistances - gutted mastery from last season

explorer - some minor utility tough skin - i dont think anyone takes this serious

t2: runic armor - actually useful, but also another sustain mastery no straight up defense veteran scars - gutted mastery from last season

insight - some utility perseverance - again some minor health regeneration

t3: swiftness - utility. useful, but still no straihgt up useful defense in the entire tree up until this point legendary guardian - the only actual defensive mastery that made it to this season without being gutted, because its so situational

i think my description was pretty accurate.

it's a very tiny amount of damage. Like 3%.

for one mastery, then another 5% on merciless, 10 flat penetration on precision

and then another couple of % in every teir of the ferocity tree. stacking up to a noticable amount of damage amp, while there is no comparable damage reduction in resolve like in past seasons.

the resolve tree grants bonus resistances Not really but OK.

i just listed them. compare them to last season

let's flatly ignore the %damage reduction and bonus health

one focused on support tanks which makes a handful of champions. the other on junglers due to lack of options. they literally dont have another keystone that has an effect in the jungle and helps them with clears except for strength of the ages.

i hope that by "utility" you mean one of two sources that grant tenacity in the entire game (excluding champion kits)

item 3111 item 2138

tenacity stacks multiplicative. that 15% tenacity is easily replacable by more effective items.

Veigarisgod11 votes

2 hp 5 - a microscopic amount of health regeneration 5% bonus resistances - gutted mastery from last season

pretty sure they are exactly the same as before.

runic armor - actually useful, but also another sustain mastery no straight up defense veteran scars - gutted mastery from last season

veterans scars is about the same.

swiftness - utility. useful, but still no straihgt up useful defense in the entire tree up until this point

dude. Just stop lying and being stupid. You are giving me a headache.

for one mastery, then another 5% on merciless

you forget that you need to be low health for that to even occur. As you have said

its so situational

one focused on support tanks which makes a handful of champions

good thing too. That doesn't mean it's useless. (as you have repeatedly claimed)

the other on junglers due to lack of options

this is when i ask you to come up with something better.

I stand corrected. There are 3 sources of tenacity as opposed to my two

tenacity stacks multiplicative. that 15% tenacity is easily replacable by more effective items.

ALL TWO OF THEM. ALL TWO ITEMS. You either have boots or a later game item that gives you a temporary buff. That's sure as hell not "easily replaceable" If i build item 3111 im giving up a lot of defense against AAing champions, bonus MS+slow resist, or lucidity boots.

Yeah no. I'm taking that mastery because it's one of the better ones in the entire mastery system.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

pretty sure they are exactly the same as before.

that doesnt make it useful. and it was 10% bonus resistances last season. the tree also had options for flat armor and magic resistances, and adaptive armor.

simply compared to ferocity and cunning, there is not nearly as much defense in resolve as there should be compared to previous seasons.

the damage sources from the other trees massively outscale the slight bit of sustain from resolve. especially with grievous wounds so easily accessable.

veterans scars is about the same.

its not about the same. its 4% max health down do 50 health. the % bonus outscaled the flat bonus very early on already. for comparison, a 4k health build netted you a bonus of 160 health lategame from veteran scars.

last season it split up into 2 masteries that 30 something health and a max health % increase.

you forget that you need to be low health for that to even occur. As you have said

that still doesnt make it less damage. and the % damage amp from penetration and ferocity isnt that conditional.

Veigarisgod11 votes

that doesnt make it useful. and it was 10% bonus resistances last season. the tree also had options for flat armor and magic resistances, and adaptive armor.

do you have stats on that?

its not about the same. its 4% max health down do 50 health. the % bonus outscaled the flat bonus very early on already.

you are correct and i don't understand why riot changed it to flat hp.

you forget that you need to be low health for that to even occur. As you have said

that still doesnt make it less damage. and the % damage ap from penetration and ferocity isnt that conditional.

the damage from grasp inst conditional. the resistances from unyielding and runic armor aren't conditional. the 15% summoner spell cooldowns are conditional. bond of stone isn't even conditional by your definition.

Let me ask you this again

Do you want a tank meta?

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

the damage from grasp inst conditional. the resistances from unyielding and runic armor aren't conditional. the 15% summoner spell cooldowns are conditional. bond of stone isn't even conditional by your definition.

the damage from grasp isnt conditional, but clearly outclassed by fervor, while the sustain component has been gutted to the point that its irrelevant.

and the problem remains that it is a damage mastery in the suposedly defensive tree that doesnt actuall grant a noticable amount of defense.

the same goes for the summoner spell cd reduction and tenacity. theyre good masteries, but they arent defensive masteries. theyre utility.

like i said. all the resolve tree is this seaosn is some utility, health regeneration and a trashy damage keystone. the other 2 keystones are nieche.

Let me ask you this again

the fuck is that question? useful defensive masteries dont have to cause a tank meta.

most of the champions you put up as example are sitting at horrible winrates anyways.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

*resolve tree.

what does resolve have left? 2 or 3 defensive masteries from last season that have been gutted, a damage keystone, and some health regeneration and utility.

this was the single most dummed down and biased explanation of masteries i have ever heard.

it's a very tiny amount of damage. Like 3%.

the resolve tree grants bonus resistances.

Not really but OK.

let's flatly ignore the %damage reduction and bonus health

i hope that by "utility" you mean one of two sources that grant tenacity in the entire game (excluding champion kits)

Technically one of three sources of tenacity, but yes, it is one of two permanent sources of tenacity.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

What? Maokai Amumu DrMundo Nidalee Hecarim Poppy and more still go way into the defensive tree...

half of those are junglers, who go into the tree because there is no other keystone than strength of the ages for junglers.

Veigarisgod11 votes

I thought we were talking about junglers.

DrMundo Illaoi Leona Olaf Singed Sion TahmKench Yorick Vladimir Nasus Thresh all go down the resolve tree.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

I thought we were talking about junglers.

DrMundo Illaoi Leona Olaf Singed Sion TahmKench Yorick Vladimir Nasus Thresh all go down the resolve tree.

Leona Thresh TahmKench only go into it for bond of stone

DrMundo Vladimir Illaoi Yorick Nasus have no reason to go deeper than t2 only for runic armor otherwise they should go into cunning for stormraider. look up the highest win % masteries for nasus for example.

Vladimir DrMundo can even go with windspeaker, since the 10% heal amp works on themselves. its only the resistance bonus they dont get, since that only applies to heals and shields on allies. but stormraider is probably still their best choice to be able to stick.

Olaf should definitely go into ferocity for fervor. why would he go for grasp? it heals 60 health every 4 seconds on 4000 health. so the only reason to take the mastery is for damage, and fervor vastly outscales grasp on auto attacking champions.

Singed is the only odd guy out. i dont even know what he does this season since i havent seen one.

Veigarisgod11 votes

only go into it for bond of stone

and you know everything else in the mastery tree

have no reason to go deeper than t2 only for runic armor otherwise they should go into cunning for stormraider.

that's a pretty huge lie. Illaoi can proc grasp at range+tenacity Nasus goes for tenacity Mundo goes because he's mundo and health=damage for him vlad can go grasp for extra sustain and damage. I've seen vlads do it. It's cancerous. yorick goes for grasp.

can even go with windspeaker

They can go with any fucking mastery and make use of it. That doesn't mean it's even remotely good on them

I've seen olafs go super tank and take grasp. Depends on comps.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

and you know everything else in the mastery tree

just no. everything down to the keystones is garbage. the only mastery that is taken on pretty much everyone who is going into that tree is runic armor. since the early season people havent been going into resolve for the t1 and t2 masteries, and only for the keystones.

that's a pretty huge lie.

http://champion.gg/champion/nasus http://champion.gg/champion/Olaf

everyone who goes into that tree does it because of a lack of better options (junglers), only because of runic armor, or is a support tank.

like even champions like Illaoi should probably take runic armor and then go into ferocity for fervor if they want to deal damage.

its literally 120 magic damage on 4k health every 4 seconds for grasp. fervor adds up to 112 on hit damage on every single auto attack when fully stacked, which is not hard to do with spells and auto attacks.

Veigarisgod11 votes

champion.gg/nasus http://champion.gg/champion/Olaf

literally everyone who goes into that tree does it because of a lack of better options (junglers), or runic armor, or is a support tank.

"pulls 2 examples" "proceeds to make a broad and incorrect statement"

https://champion.gg/champion/Darius/Top https://champion.gg/champion/Singed/Top https://champion.gg/champion/Malphite/Top https://champion.gg/champion/Garen/Top https://champion.gg/champion/DrMundo/Top https://champion.gg/champion/Vladimir/Top https://champion.gg/champion/Poppy/Top https://champion.gg/champion/TahmKench/Top https://champion.gg/champion/Shen/Top https://champion.gg/champion/Rammus/Top

That's _just _ for top lane. all champions that go all the way into the resolve tree.

literally everyone who goes into that tree does it because of a lack of better options (junglers), or runic armor, or is a support tank.

So basically, everyone but support tanks or mastery abusers go into the resolve tree IT'S ALMOST AS IF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO DEAL DAMAGE, GO DAMAGE

just no. everything down to the keystones is garbage. the only mastery that is taken on pretty much everyone is runic armor. since the early season people havent been going into resolve for the t1 and t2 masteries.

Tenacity is now considered garbage everyone.

havent been going into resolve for the t1 and t2 masteries

probably because those people want to build damage.

Let me ask you a question. Do you want a tank meta? No, not a cop-out bruiser/carry meta like it is now. but a real tank meta

Sejuani Alistar Illaoi Garen Gragas Malphite Maokai etc all running rampant, dealing way to much damage and sacrificing nothing for it. Do you want that? Do you really want buffs to the resolve tree? Remember when grasp was busted as fuck? I do. I do not want that to happen again.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted} Sejuani Alistar Illaoi Garen Gragas Malphite Maokai etc all running rampant, dealing way to much damage and sacrificing nothing for it. Do you want that? Do you really want buffs to the resolve tree? Remember when grasp was busted as fuck? I do. I do not want that to happen again.

i dont even. what the hell?

fist of all, garen and illaoi arent even tanks. theyre fighters and supposed to deal damage. theyre literally 2 of a group of champions that are designed to be beefy carries.

second, how would adding actual defensive masteries instead of shit like grasp, or just plain incentivising them to go into the offensive trees cause them to deal more damage?

if any mastery tree this season allowed people to build full on defensive builds and still deal damage, then it was ferocity with fervor.

Veigarisgod11 votes

fist of all, garen and illaoi arent even tanks. theyre fightiers and supposed to deal damage.

so you are denying that they are affected by changes to tanks.

you are, and i do not use this term lightly, a colossal idiot.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

so you are denying that they are affected by changes to tanks.

you listed them in a group of tanks and called them tanks.

of course they would be affected, but it still doesnt mean they would automatically become op. even in case illaoi would be too strong with better defensive masteries, she could be adjusted.

mastery changes happened every season, and they will probably change again in preseason. just because something might break doesnt mean its not a good change overall. thats what preseason is for. an adjustment period after big changes to the game.

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