16 Comments

360D3GR3SS5 votes

No, it offers too much of everything for mages gives AP MR Armor AND TENACITY.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

No, it offers too much of everything for mages gives AP MR Armor AND TENACITY.

Hypothetically, perhaps the MR could be replaced with Stasis so that 1. It couldn't be used in conjunction with Zhonya's Hourglass and 2. so that there is still some counter to AP Burst (or burst in general).

Sightless662 votes

Having two items with the same effect isn't a good idea. It's particularly not a great idea when that effect is as powerful as stasis. You'd be making the item significantly stronger with that active.

Moonflair Spellblade exists because AP bruisers, tanks, and tankier mages (barring Rumble) were absolutely terrible against AD bruisers on the other maps. They couldn't handle the combination of base damages and CC. Moonflair answered their problem by being designed solely to make them stronger. It gave them efficient defenses, tenacity, and AP so only they could use it well. It answered every problem they had. That was necessary on the other maps because the classes just didn't work. On Summoner's Rift, they do work, so giving them an item that just solves every problem isn't good design.

Also, remember that you're not just buffing Elise and Zac with this item. You're also buffing Ryze, Amumu, Swain, and potentially tankier assassins like Akali. These champions don't need help. They particularly don't need an item giving them tenacity for a minimal cost. Tenacity does not need to be easily available to an entire class. Merc Treads has a payoff in that you can't get better defensive or faster boots. Zephyr has very few champions who can effectively buy it early. This item can be bought almost whenever, and it would just give the entire class resistance to CC. They don't need that.

It's a poorly designed item for Summoner's Rift.

ABlueQuaker1 votes

Having two items with the same effect isn't a good idea. It's particularly not a great idea when that effect is as powerful as stasis. You'd be making the item significantly stronger with that active.

Moonflair Spellblade exists because AP bruisers, tanks, and tankier mages (barring Rumble) were absolutely terrible against AD bruisers on the other maps. They couldn't handle the combination of base damages and CC. Moonflair answered their problem by being designed solely to make them stronger. It gave them efficient defenses, tenacity, and AP so only they could use it well. It answered every problem they had. That was necessary on the other maps because the classes just didn't work. On Summoner's Rift, they do work, so giving them an item that just solves every problem isn't good design.

Also, remember that you're not just buffing Elise and Zac with this item. You're also buffing Ryze, Amumu, Swain, and potentially tankier assassins like Akali. These champions don't need help. They particularly don't need an item giving them tenacity for a minimal cost. Tenacity does not need to be easily available to an entire class. Merc Treads has a payoff in that you can't get better defensive or faster boots. Zephyr has very few champions who can effectively buy it early. This item can be bought almost whenever, and it would just give the entire class resistance to CC. They don't need that.

It's a poorly designed item for Summoner's Rift.

You don't understand the concept behind giving it a Stasis Active and removing the MR. MR is meant to be the Achilles Heel of Tanks who usually only ever get Spirit Visage or Banshee's Veil so by making Moonflair Spellblade an Armor Item it still leave that weakness there. The main idea of giving it the Stasis Active is because it's unique meaning that it can't be purchased as well as Zhonya's without wasting stats and it has HALF the amount of AP - this means that (for example) Swain has to pick between having Tenacity and 50 AP. And that would be the difference between Swain Top and Swain Mid.

Sightless662 votes

Just because it doesn't give MR to tanks doesn't mean it isn't giving them something they don't need. Tanks don't need tenacity at an efficient cost, and they don't necessarily want it attached to stasis. It's either going to be strong enough to just reduce the effectiveness of CC against them or worthless because it won't be defensively viable. There will be no inbetween so long as you also have to tune it for AP bruisers.

First, I can and will purchase both. It's not a Zhonya's or Spellblade, situation, it's a Zhonya's and Spellblade situation. Stasis is very strong. I have no reason not to purchase it twice. It's also not a waste of stats, and if it is, it won't be purchased because merc treads are an option and they waste fewer stats.

Second, even for situations where someone would only buy one, why is a choice needed? It just serves to increase the number of characters with access to stasis, and that's not something we need. AP bruisers already have their option. Giving them a different one that also has tenacity attached isn't necessary, productive, or useful.

And finally, why the heck should we have an item that is just a cheaper version of another item with the exact same main effect and one extra stat? What's the purpose of that, particularly when it's tuned to still be purchased mainly by a class that already can buy the first item?

I'm not swayed. It's a bad idea. It tries to fix a problem that isn't a problem, and it just overlaps with Zhonya's in design.

Earl Eulrich2 votes

Everything besides Mana, CDR, Health, Mpen, Ap (50 isn´t that great of a margin), actual Slot-Efficiency...

Duke Anax3 votes

Exactly this.

Sometimes it would be just the right combinationm of stats to round out a build, So it's very desirable, but it's not big enough to be a problem and lacks too many specifics to be rushed.

Pretty much a bit more offensive version of Guardian Angel.

360D3GR3SS1 votes

50 ap is not that much, but the 50 armor MR and tenacity more than make up for its lack of ability power. If you put this on swain I don't know how people will deal with him full bluild.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

well, just look what he can get instead on that slot... item 3001 , item 3003 , item 3110 , item 3151 , item 3089 , item 3143 , item 3029 , item 3116 , item 3065 , item 3075 , item 3290 , item 3157 , item 3135 , item 3102 , item 3174 , item 3152 ... It´s hard to find a less slot-efficient Item that is actually still viable on Swain. Most other Items Add either way better defense vs the more potent threat in the opponent team (allow you to customize your defense vs the opponent that hurts you most) or add a lot more offense/utility. Moonflair is a nice generalist Item if you want some tenacity later on or really don´t want to get mercs for some reason, but it sure is not stronger than anything else.

360D3GR3SS1 votes

Touche, but i still think the roa +current moonflair is a really good combo for him. Makes him tanky early on and moonflair is way cheaper than zhonyas currently. Never tried it though, and I don't play swain often. I use the roa +moonflair on blitz and go boots of swiftness, ultimate troll.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

Yea, it can be good - depending on the situation. But it´s far from having potential to become overpowered. With item 3027 item 3170 you have a nice midgame powerspike, but you´ll suffer for it at 3items compared to sth like item 3027 item 3157 item 3001 (offensive Swain) or item 3027 item 3065 item 3143 / item 3075 (tank-swain) to make up for it.

360D3GR3SS1 votes

Oh lol i was talking about twisted treeline with blitz.

Meep Man1 votes

item 3172

360D3GR3SS1 votes

except that gives 0 defensive stats besides the tenacity (if you consider it defensive).

Solidair31 votes

To be honest with you, I think it would be just too good. Tenacity is a powerful stat, and it's probably good that mages can't have access to it in regular maps.

I do love to get it in dominion though, I almost always pick it up.

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