scrying plant is broken and needs to be removed or nerfed hard

Big Lincoln·Nov 16, 2016·88 votes·4,364 views

it's absolutely ridiculous that this plant lets you get vision of an entire section of an enemy jungle, on top of revealing any wards and traps. it removes all risk from counterjungling when I can make sure the enemy jungler is either not there or he's low, and I'll know exactly what path to take so he doesn't see me do it. tired of seeing that stupid plant swipe over me and then the enemy jungler either comes in to force me off a buff if I'm caught low, or he sees me at full HP, backs up and loses nothing because all he had to do was hit a plant at the jungle entrance.

this plant is complete bullshit

65 Comments

shalexadeNov 16, 201621 votes

Baron is broken.

I am so sick of seeing the opposition team get Baron.

It's ridiculously OP and there is nothing at all I can do about it!

Big LincolnNov 16, 20167 votes

not an argument

shalexadeNov 17, 20161 votes

When in Rome hey.

LankPantsNov 16, 201612 votes

Baron has a huge opportunity cost. Taking it requires multiple members and a good sum of time. Plant's don't have this opportunity cost. If the Vision plant took ~5 autos it would probably be fine.

shalexadeNov 17, 20162 votes

Huge opportunity cost, but also a huge reward.

Both players have the opportunity to use the scrying plant to get a peak at the opposition jungler, then act appropriately.

It's not some magical strat that only the other team can use- and it's also not some magical strat that your own team can't work together to counter- particularly when you have to reveal yourself to use the scry.

That in itself is a fair opportunity cost.

Oh look- the jungler just scry'ed my top jungle. Feel free to counter jungle his other side.

BeatzBoyFTWNov 16, 20169 votes

Unlike Baron, Scrying Orb needs only 1 AA.

Spaceman5pffNov 16, 20165 votes

https://youtu.be/mcll7zZKNfw?t=13s

I BEG TO DIFFER

BeatzBoyFTWNov 16, 20161 votes

First, wtf.

And second, an AA which takes 0.005 seconds to kill in one shot.

Spaceman5pffNov 16, 20161 votes

I do this with kindred every game at exactly 20 minutes its broken ritoe pl0s fix

IronfieldNov 16, 201616 votes

Hello summoner!

Its important to remember the information produced by scrying plant goes both ways. If you look at the minimap it shows the direction and location of the 'sight wave' revealing that a champion is nearby allowing teams to prepare for the counter jungle or use the information to deduce his route and where hes going to strike next.

Big LincolnNov 16, 20165 votes

there's nothing I can do, lol.

If I am low and a scrying plant hits me, I have NO CHOICE but to leave my jungle as soon as possible and give up whatever camps they want to take. My team will not get there in time to save me and odds are, if they're feeling like counterjungling, they're gonna be full HP and I won't be able to contest.

I've been abusing it, too; I don't have to take a single risk to counterjungle now. It does WAY too much; it reveals the champion, it reveals wards, and it reveals camps. I've cheesed a couple of first bloods with it, too; it's almost too subtle to be noticed if you aren't paying close attention.

TheHappyReaperzNov 16, 20165 votes

Or you could notice someone using it from outside its range, wait in your jungle and kill them when they invade.

Big LincolnNov 16, 20162 votes

yeah I'll just stay out of range of my own jungle lol

TheHappyReaperzNov 16, 20164 votes

The range of the plant is about a quarter of your jungle. Its not hard to see it go by without being seen.

General Esdeath Nov 16, 20161 votes

But it doesn't reveal their exact location and how many there are. Not to mention their wards and traps.

00 Great DaneNov 16, 201611 votes

Learn to adapt. Evolve your playstyle. The new jungle gives TONS of gold and XP at the cost of being seen or invaded by a smarter enemy. You have the same advantage over the other jungler, go hit his plants. Don't be a bitch.

DanjengNov 16, 20168 votes

Agree. I think it should definitely be toned down in either

Range
Duration.
Spawn time

The other plants are fine, but this one is way too strong/game-changing.

1000angrybeesNov 16, 20162 votes

-Slightly smaller range. Either it's reach or it's cone of vision, probably not both. -Should do a quick 'sweep' lasting about 1 second instead of current duration.

AnOtterFailureNov 16, 20161 votes

Part of why it lasts the duration it does is for the sake of sweeping wards with it I believe. Although as long as they kept wards "visible" for the duration it currently does which gives you enough time to walk over and clear it I personally don't see a problem with the sweep lasting less time.

AptestNov 16, 20161 votes

maybe just not have it positioned at the entrance to the jungle? so you can't just "hello, anybody home" at the door?

BIackfoxNov 16, 20167 votes

Why is this getting upvoted?

TeCoolMageNov 16, 20166 votes

Ooh I know, use the plant before they do!

It's on your side of the jungle, too, how convenient

Sayori Is WaifuNov 16, 20164 votes

Don't need to say bullshit....

Troll for TrumpNov 16, 20164 votes

Scrying plant? More like crying plant.

Yeah, it's the strongest plant. People don't know how to use it yet.

Just like a couple of the assassins..

HammermancerNov 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Scrying plant? More like crying plant.

Yeah, it's the strongest plant. People don't know how to use it yet.

Just like a couple of the assassins..

I'm pretty sure you meant to say "OMG SHACO SUX WTF RITO Y U RUIN MI CHAMP WTF WTF WTF WTF WTF"

right?

PROJECT KatarìnaNov 16, 20161 votes

? Im pretty sure thats not even close to what he said

HammermancerNov 16, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Blades End,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gEJEVZa2,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2016-11-16T09:55:54.177+0000)

? Im pretty sure thats not even close to what he said

I wasn't being serious >.>

Troll for TrumpNov 17, 20161 votes

I really don't like how they want Shaco to just stick with the same AD assassin linear path that every other assassin does. Also don't like the boxes. But yeah gotta deal with it.

I was thinking along LB and Kat, especially the latter.

EcchiOtakuTMNov 16, 20162 votes

Complaints about losing vision buffs, vision plant is a good vision tool complaints.

The only broken plant is honeyfruit vision is easy to deny......

DengedenNov 16, 20162 votes

You should know when the enemy jungler is low. That's basic game knowledge/map awareness.

You forget that the enemy will see you activate the plant, if their warding set up is good, they can just assume you'll use that route.

TheHappyReaperzNov 16, 20162 votes

The same thing happens whenever an enemy wards your jungle, with the exception that wards don't come with a massive indicator showing you where they are.

doombotMECHANov 16, 20161 votes

they can't ward your jungle from across the river.

LeetriNov 16, 20161 votes

If they got blue trinket for whatever reason they could. :P

Garlic ButterNov 16, 20162 votes

Wait what... why are you not clearing the plant when it spawns as part of your jungle rotation? Sounds like don't even have the bare minimum basics down regarding jungling/counterjungle

Existential BardNov 16, 20162 votes

The thing I like about the scrying plant is that it always shows an wave effect on the map. So if you are paying attention you can usually know where the person is that popped the plant and collapse on them.

the weeabooNov 16, 20162 votes

They need it to replace raptor buffs. Anyways I like them.

TalisidNov 16, 20162 votes

Maybe you should use your own Scryer plants before the enemy does then.

HawkefireNov 16, 20161 votes

Honestly I think they should remove it's ability to see wards and traps. Having it reveal such a huge chunk of land is one thing, but having it show all wards and traps in the area is kind of broken.

The plant almost entirely invalidates teemo if used properly (I mean seriously, we already have red trinket which is a large counter to teemo already).

It can also allow you to remove wards from river bushes if angled right (primarily from top lane, not sure if it works on bot lane as I haven't really had the chance to mess with it done there).

I can sort of deal with it revealing such a large area because you can also see it being used on the map and if you are in the area, but giving them the ability to remove my wards is a bit much.

Big LincolnNov 16, 20162 votes

it keeps happening to me as Shaco and it's annoying AF that my setup and preparation can get completely nullified like that lol

DunkinNoobsNov 16, 20161 votes

Using the scrying orb reveals your location as well, and that's a very significant cost to using it. You want the info the scrying orb gives? Then you need to give some in return.

HammermancerNov 16, 20161 votes

in all honesty, i miss the old buffs, but the new ones are more useful. It's literally down to basics of utility. I've survived much more often from the bomb plants than i ever did smiting red when running away (Used to tell adc to keep red after i hit 5 in jg)

now I totally used the buffs before, particularly i liked the raptor buff because it had a very good purpose. I'm almost thinking maybe a new camp should be added to the rift. may a beholder? killing it grants a vision buff, extended vision range and truesight for a few minutes. I'd replace grom with this one. Then maybe give krugs a move speed buff after they're all dead?

OyddAWqJ5rNov 16, 20161 votes

It's honestly pretty risky to get there. The enemy jungle has to time it too. Perhaps try contesting it or find a route that allows you to sweep it as you go?

If it truly is that bad then perhaps it does need some retuning. Maybe having it only fire off in the direction of the opposite jungle?

DeathBurstNov 16, 20161 votes

Actually, I've been warned about an incoming gank by the particles being visible many times already.

EndlessIsolationNov 16, 20161 votes

I'd rather they change it similar to the old vision items (Like sweeper) and make it create a cloud of vision dust in a specific direction (like it is now), but it just hovers in that spot revealing anything in it for x seconds.

Distance can be tweaked (I'd like it at least be able to see tail end of dragon or red buff if sent over the wall but no more than that), and duration should probably be less than the entire duration it is now.

I don't really like that it moves in the direction you hit it, and I think it lasts too long (and goes pretty damned far to boot). I feel like the utility of this plant is a bit too strong but not really sure what can be done without making it entirely trash compared to old spirit wolf.

ElikainNov 16, 20161 votes

Targets that are moving shake off Scrying pollen quite faster, which means that only stationary camps, wards and traps are revealed for the full duration of the plant. The vision cone is decently wide but it fades pretty quickly, which means outside of the detecting people, it's not meant or designed to track the location of junglers to catch them out by coordinated effort from the opposite team. Scrying plant is meant for people to reveal wards and have sufficient time to destroy them if they are far out of reach.

If the plants are a problem for your quadrant of the jungle, consider triggering them before you start your camps if you believe it might be used against you. So far, i had no problem with them or thought they provide an unfair advantage when triggered. But if they are a bit stronger than intended, they can easily be adjusted.

MrryZNov 16, 20161 votes

What if you're only allowed to aim it into the river?

Meep ManNov 16, 20161 votes

On the other side, you reveal where you are since the enemy can see the wave from the plant through the fog of war. Knowing where the enemy Jungler can change the early game entirely.

Captainn GinyuNov 16, 20161 votes

iv never had issues with this i mean i mayu only be playing on a bronze/silver level but iv had it used on me countless time i may not get a free kill but if it keeps the jungler out of my jungle when he sees me at full health more camps for me

i play quick jungle clear champs any way so it dosent bother me all that much

Captainn GinyuNov 16, 20161 votes

you could also just smack your own scraying plant before they do its what i do most of the time an i often see junglers in the rivers

Dr ClitFlickNov 16, 20161 votes

i love it