why does she have a 49% winrate by players who have played her for the 1st to 5th time? source: http://champion.gg/champion/Vayne
a real hard champ to play like azir has 40,14% winrate by players who have played her for the 1st to 5th time source: http://champion.gg/champion/Azir
accept that vayne is overpowered and dont find excuses like muh skill.
ive seen enough of this champ, gut her.
Fadedpf26 votes"Vayne is so weak early and gets rekt". Tumbles and condemns to safety. Does this over and over till she wins with her stupid steroids.
Llanite22 votes"Vayne is so weak early and gets rekt". Tumbles and condemns to safety. Does this over and over till she wins with her stupid steroids.
Weak means she does not farm well and generate no pressure. Doesn't mean she dies every freaking second.
NemeBro2 votesWeak means she does not farm well and generate no pressure. Doesn't mean she dies every freaking second.
She has higher base AD than most other ADCs, can empower an AA with her Q, and can use her W to help her last hit as well, if she times it right.
Vayne has an easier time farming than most ADCs.
gl0hs0zgf10 votesIf she's free farming, sure.
The problem is that her range is really short, so she's going to take some free autos from (competent) the enemy ADC (who knows what he/she is doing). After a while she will get low and be forced out of lane (or killed), causing her to lose out on farm. The alternative is to be zoned from farming because she knows she'll take harass.
Using Q to help cs exacerbates the problem, as she has just blown her only escape (before she could at least try to tumble to safety) and the enemy botlane can go all-in on her while her Q is on CD (which should be fairly high during laning).
junglerboy1610 votesHeh, short ranged? really? She has 550 range, just like 
, while 
, 
starts with 525, 
has 525, 
has 500, and 
only has 425. In fact, early game, only 
outrange her without steroids.
Of course she doesn't have uber long ranged poke or good wave clear, but she isn't designed for that. Her self peel makes most forms of hard engage almost useless in lane, and her tumble allows her to easily avoid poke. I personally don't think she's OP, but I do think she need to have better defined strengths and weaknesses.
gl0hs0zgf1 votesHmm, my mistake. I thought (mistakenly, as it appears) that she had less range than that. Nevertheless, taking AA harass while cs'ing will be a given, and she can rarely retaliate as most ADC's can follow up with a spell and outtrade her.
EndlessSorcerer12 votesVayne has short range because she has no abilities which allow her to affect enemies outside of her autoattack range.
WR
QR
QR
ER
QWR
QR
WR
Q
QER
QWR
QR
Q
QW
QE
QER
and are the only other ADCs who can't affect enemies outside of their autoattack range and both have abilities which can extend their autoattack range significantly. [I suppose Twitch W can technically count, but it's pretty minor]
Diananmen Square1 votes has 500.
has 525.
junglerboy161 voteswhoops. But really, that just proves my point about her range even better.
kJs2 votesYeah. She's short ranged. Vayne doesn't have a Boomerang or a wide AoE medium range ult.
EndlessSorcerer6 votesVayne has short range because she has no abilities which allow her to affect enemies outside of her autoattack range.
WR
QR
QR
ER
QWR
QR
WR
Q
QER
QWR
QR
Q
QW
QE
QER
and are the only other ADCs who can't affect enemies outside of their autoattack range and both have abilities which can extend their autoattack range significantly. [I suppose Twitch W can technically count, but it's pretty minor]
EndlessSorcerer2 votesTechnically it's in Evernote.
It's just one of those arguments that keeps reappearing.
Anidan7 votesWhen people say she's short range that doesn't refer solely to her auto-attacks.
Corki has a way to poke outside his auto-attacks, Draven has abilities outside his auto-attacks, Ezreal has abilities outside his AA range, Kalista has damage outside the range of her AAs, Miss Fortune has damage outside the range of her AAs, Sivir has damage outside the range of her AAs. Kog'maw, Tristana and Jinx have ways to damage beyond their normal AA range (Koggy W, Trist passive, Jinx Q), Quinn's thing has less to do with range, and more with her design. Lucian has less solely thanks to heavy-handed nerfs that lacked forethought on Riot's part, and Urgot has ways of damaging outside of his AA range. And hell, while we're here: Ashe has ways of damaging outside her AA range, Caitlyn has ways of damaging outside her AA range, and Varus has ways of damaging outside his AA range.
Vayne has literally no way to contribute any damage outside of her AA range while other ADCs do, making her 100% limited to a 550 range, a range that is considered by many people to be fairly short when you have nothing else to do with it. Medium range at best.
Troll for Trump1 votes
to apply pressure for you.
Not a
or(to some extent)
Llanite1 votes
- Well then she should have a support that: can tank, apply cc, disengage, and apply pressure. Don't ignore the support and assume they do not exist(unless you are vayne top or jgl). If vayne's bot all you need is
The other support could have done the same and balance each other out. If not it's the support issue, not Vayne herself.
TheI3igDaddy14 votes'but m-muh range!'
If someone's too close to her, she'll tumble back and condemn if necessary.
If someone's too far away, and she wants to fight, her passive and Q help her quickly get into position.
gaby1best4 votesStop acting like tumble is a 1000 units dash. The ability is there for repositioning and skillshot dodging, it doesn't help her escape anything, especially early game.
IcyPepper13 votesIf I may ask, what's an example of a difficult adc to play so we can have a base for comparison?
Fadedpf12 votes ( kog is not hard mechanically, but you do need to know his damage and position correctly or you'll get rekt easy.)
TheI3igDaddy2 voteswouldn't Twitch also be on this list, because he drops faster than a wet paper bag?
Fadedpf4 votesYeah but twitch is straight up weak if you ask me. So easy to kill him 5 times over in lane.
Drunken Yasuo17 votesKalista with a 43,58% winrate for the 1st to 5th game increasing to 56,79% for Kalista Players with more than 125 games.
IcyPepper7 votesFair enough. Tried her once, she's not exactly all that easy to play.
Keevalroy3 votesIt doesn't take any amount of mechanical skill to hold shift and right click the ground...
Diananmen Square5 votesOn paper it seems easy, but in reality one misclick can make you jump right into the enemy and get you killed quickly.
I Am Luxanna2 votesi got a quadra kill on my 2nd kalista game...
X SkeletonCandy2 votesIf I may ask, what's an example of a difficult adc to play so we can have a base for comparison?
I think Draven is up there.
TheXtractor12 votesI love your links to your website. you do know that 40% winrate in 5 games is 2 games won and 49% winrate in 5 games is 2.45 games won.
Sooo basically, both first time vayne and first time azir players win 2/5 games which is probably just because of matchmaking and getting carried in the game.
At least try to have valid data when you troll :D
Drunken Yasuo21 votes[deleted]
Bouffon dAnglais8 votesthere was really no need to add "idiot" in your comment.
Ipols6 votesThinking is so overrated these days, better write the first thing that hits my mind and pretend it's a deep and clever argument
ThatHaleState11 votesI believe you forgot to check out all the other adc's. The ADC champs themselves are not difficult to win with. By your logic, every adc except and should also be gutted because they are the only adc's who have a 1st-5th games win rate of less than vaynes ( 49%). Caitlyn is 50, Jinx is 51, Ashe is 53. GUT THEM GUT THEM ALL. Just because you can't deal with 
yourself does not mean she is op or needs nerfs at all.
Kuroi869 votesYay, lets compare two high skill cap champs, then act like one is worthy of nerfing when the other recently got nerfed and pretend that this is grounds to gut a champ.
Seriously, just stop. -_- All you're doing is wasting space, Riot doesn't listen to these boards for advice on balance for EXACTLY the reason you posted this thread, you're biased, end of story.
Monsta Moo5 votesYou don't have to be a god to be good at her. However, if you do get your "skills" you become a god late game no matter what. You seem to QQ a lot about everything lol, seen you raging in multiple threads. Here's the thing I don't get about people that make these arguments. You can explain "X" champs entire identity, kit, and how they work with different build paths, but can't seem to form a way to counter it. If you know so much about the champ, what's holding you back? If you know that much and are still getting smacked by "X" champ, you should feel pretty sad. No champ in this game is that blatantly unbalanced that you can know all of that information, and still lose no matter what you do.
ChaoticPinecone3 votesthis is the worst logic ever, because there is at least one GREAT reason how you can know every part of a champions kit and still lose: its when a champion is overpowered.
Lets think back to 5.12 Ryze for an easy example. Do you think the pros didnt know Ryze's abilities? Kit? Identity? Build? Of course they knew - but theres nothing you can do when you get flash-permarooted.
yukonl5 votesVayne's not hard to play, she's hard to master. Btw, if you guys are serious about trying to influence Riot into giving her a nerf, don't say gut her because it doesn't accomplish anything.
buster kiton4 votesVayne is hard to master, but starting her is easy as fk. She can be played badly and still wreck face.
Emperor Time4 votesShe would be weak if all the good adc's didn't get nerfed to shit, like lucian.
Dreadlocks3 votesNewb.
Drunken Yasuo14 votesim 11 divisions above your silver ass.
O Fallen Scholar3 votes[{quoted}](name=Drunken Yasuo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gBOL3pLg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-07-31T07:04:34.559+0000)
im 11 divisions above your silver ass.
D5 is also silver, i'm in Plat III and I condiser myself to be silver.
Lupxel5 votesDoes that make sense at all? If where you are is called bronze, you are bronze... if you are where they call diamond you are diamond... :S
Slamurai Jack3 votesEh, I'd say it's because adcs are all really similar to one another. You learn one and you've learned them all to a basic degree. The only way you can learn how to play Azir is by playing Azir, and you're bound to take your lumps when doing so. The only adc that feels majorly different to play from the others is Kalista, and would you look at that, the win rate differential between new Kalista's and experienced ones is massive.
RottedApples2 votesI think i have like a 10% winrate with her and i've played her maybe 10 times overall? Similar boat with Riven...
Jari2 votesNot saying she can't be strong right now, but every time I don't go marksman and bot's against a Vayne, I see some stupid shit. Like level 2 tower dives trying to kill her and failing. And from there it's scary because when Vayne gets ahead she just takes it all. That's how a hyper works. XD
Iamawalrus2 votesI think people confuse skill floor and skill cap/ceiling. She doesn't have a very high skill floor (skill needed to do ok with her), but she has a pretty high skill cap/ceiling and so she's quite hard to play really well, which is required at some levels of play.
Azir on the other hand has a very high skill floor and cap in comparison. It's quite skill intensive to play decently with him and he's hard to play really well, too.
Big Bang Bob2 votesive seen enough of this champ, gut her.
Am I the only one who hates statements like these...
