A nice qol change for Anivia @Meddler, @Riot

Krys Star·Feb 9, 2016·81 votes·9,460 views

I've suggested this twice, both to Meddler and Repertoir, but I'm sure they were too busy to notice this. But I think it'd be a great qol change for Anivia if, whenever her passive Rebirth is active, she has a glimmer/sparkle to her entire body. I hate having to click on my ally Anivia, or enemy Anivia, to see if their egg is up because there's no other way of knowing otherwise. Unless there is, and I'm just totally missing it.

At least for the sake of clarity!

65 Comments

RiotMeddlerFeb 9, 201677 votes

That's a great suggestion.

Visual effects is generally our biggest bottle neck unfortunately, so I can't make any promises we'll get to this anytime soon. Will pass it on to the appropriate team though, see if there's any chance of getting something into the mid year mage update or at least the backlog for some point later on.

FlemmanFeb 9, 201618 votes

IMO, zac and voli could use that clarity too (and probably other champ that I miss)

Raid Boss MordeFeb 9, 20162 votes

Blitzcrank's passive too.

VentusDragoonFeb 9, 20165 votes

I've learned to always assume Blitz's shield is up.

On the other hand, Anivia does need this clarity. Zac's MUCH easier to finish off if you anyone with even a speck of damage, it really only saves him in the jungle and lane if he's near his turret, or if his team follows up on a team fight.

Malicious FuryFeb 9, 20161 votes

Yes please nerf Blitz. :D IF the enemy can see it's down that would be wonderful. :)

ZedexFeb 9, 20162 votes

Can't forget Aatrox...Everyone always does though it seems. Even Riot. They stated they had plans to change him and they never did.

willuwontuFeb 9, 201618 votes

All you need to do is look at his resource bar to see if his passive is up. If it's white, it's down, if it's red, it's up.

Auz the RipperFeb 9, 20167 votes

He probably has the clearest indication of whether or not his passive is active

ZedexFeb 10, 20161 votes

While you're completely correct and I'm in the wrong , (His passive does indeed have an indicator, his resource bar changes color) the fact remains he has still been left in the dust.

Still, Oops.

Celio Hogane HDFeb 9, 20162 votes

Aatrox is the only one that actually has it.

Mr BorgFeb 9, 20162 votes

Zac main here. That would actually be a pretty big nerf to him (voli too, actually). At least at low-mid elos (and I believe the casters even mentioned it in LCS, so it might be universal), people forget about his passive surprisingly often and you can bait people into bad fights. That being said, it would still be a good change since power shouldn't come from an enemy not thinking to click on you to check your buff bar.

EfficientDynamoFeb 9, 20163 votes

I am curious, why is that your greatest bottleneck? Is coding visual effects more bug prone or time intensive, is that team smaller than others/always being pulled onto other projects, are visual effects considered "dangerous" (e.g. can cause too much clutter and make the game difficult to play), etc?

BloodyTomponFeb 9, 20164 votes

Lack of artists. They're always after more.

killd0zerFeb 9, 20161 votes

It's also screen clutter more importantly

RiotMeddlerFeb 9, 20166 votes

I'm not an artist or involved in art staffing, so there may be some things I'm unaware of. One of the big issues though is just that visual effects (VFX) is in demand for a really wide range of work. Smaller scope champion updates for example are often quite light on changes to base model, character animations etc, since they're generally focused on ability changes. Ability changes tend to be really demanding on VFX though. Similarly items or masteries, new or modified, don't need involvement from many disciplines, but often involve VFX work. Other types of work, like Hextech crafting or the Fire and Ice finishers from All Stars, also involve significant VFX input.

EfficientDynamoFeb 10, 20162 votes

Thanks for the info, the bottleneck makes more sense in that light.

CountermanderFeb 9, 20163 votes

Anivia's tool tip also mentions this, but she is very strong early on, and it is encouraged that she plays aggressive (because she has rebirth). Many early kills I earn in games (KR, plat) come from the enemy forgetting about my passive, Rebirth. But sparkles that indicate this passive will not only help myself/yourself, it will ALSO HELP THE ENEMY, which is something I'm not sure all Anivia players want. Your opinion does not speak for the greater number of players out there. There is already the passive CD info shown when you click on the Anivia, ally or enemy. It is one of her hidden strengths. Letting the enemy underestimating is part of the strategy.

Conclusion: Your idea is good for beginners (which I assume you are) to identify things better; but it's not something all users want.

For example, Lissandra's passive makes her ice V-helmet shine, and when I see it glow, I know her next skill is mana free, so I put that into my calculations to trade with her.

Please. Meddler. That is not something all of us want. Anivia is already weakened with her R nerf....

FastAsHeckFeb 9, 201649 votes

balancing a champion by hiding a part of their kit is a really bad idea

Vistha KaiFeb 9, 201616 votes

Best regards from Riven.

CountermanderFeb 9, 20163 votes

I... I don't get it..

Best Darius KRFeb 9, 201611 votes

He is talking about Riven's animation cancelling m8

CountermanderFeb 9, 20162 votes

You da real MVP, Capt..!

Sure enough, in KR if anyone dares to even say "Riven is weak / needs buffs", the entire thread trembles in disgust towards the Rislams (what we call the Riven mains) and says in unity Riven is so broken she needs to be deleted / reworked / removed.

Krys StarFeb 9, 20164 votes

I've been playing this game since 2010. How am I a beginner? Nice assumption??? You're so full of yourself. I've also been diamond for majority of seasons except 5, which I got to diamond IV in preseason before 6 started regardless.

CountermanderFeb 9, 20162 votes

I truly am surprised then, that you are suggesting particle effects for Anivia's passive ( Zac's, Voli's that others are suggesting is now also on the table).

I am not full of myself. I am very surprised that you are very full of yourself.

"Well, this Anivia is really bugging me, I can't remember if her passive is up or down... Hhhmmm... Too lazy to click on her though. Better just tell Rito to put up new effects so I know immediately!"

Have you every played this game called Poker? Yeah.

In poker, part of the strategy is to make good assumptions, play mind games, remember what cards are down and were shown, and sometimes, guess by the blind luck.

In LoL, part of the strategy is to make good assumptions, (her Egg was last down 4 minutes ago... It should be up about now..) play mind games, (I'm at 50% health and ganking with my jungler, but Anivia isn't retreating... Either her jungler is also coming, or she has Egg) remember what cards are down and were shown, (Her Egg was crushed by my ADC 2 min ago, it should be safe to dive her now!) and sometimes, guess by the blind luck. (I guess I was pretty close when I escaped after diving the turret with 10 health, and Anivia just typed "2 sec to Egg")

Is it really so hard?

Krys StarFeb 9, 20168 votes

First, please explain how I'm full of myself.

Second, League and Poker are not the same thing. At all.

Third, I'm not too lazy to click on Anivia and check. But, as a support main, if I'm playing Zilean, Soraka or Janna, it'd be great to notice Anivia's passive was up and ready in the midst of a chaotic team fight instead of taking the time to click her and check, precious seconds I could've used to save another ally in need.

You are just so full of disdain. This change would make absolutely no difference to Anivia's gameplay, as seasoned and veteran players know to check for Anivia's passive before blowing everything on her. Is it really so hard not to be stubborn and not seeing everything in a negative light?

MarshbouyFeb 9, 20161 votes

Could this be possible with aatrox? Or could this nerf him too hard?

My Waifu VanillaFeb 9, 20169 votes

Isn't Aatrox secondary resource red when it is off cd and gray when it is on?

MarshbouyFeb 9, 20166 votes

Huh didn't notice that. I'm mastery 4 with him and ashamed of myself :/

HoodwinkFeb 9, 20161 votes

I am also ashamed of you.

MansanaFeb 9, 20161 votes

I would definitely love a sparkle, would definitely be helpful to the enemy as well so they understand when to go all in. It doesn't even need to be a sparkle, it could be a color/texture changing effect sorta like Malphite.

CountermanderFeb 9, 20162 votes

I am gravely worried that you think this is a great suggestion.

When is Quinn and Graves getting the nerfs they deserve? It was openly admitted that nerfs were incoming for them for being too strong like MF.

Put your filthy fingers away from my Anivia and Vel' Koz. Also Vel's eye should have glowing effects when his ult is up, for clarity, right?

SkylendorFeb 9, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I am gravely worried that you think this is a great suggestion.

When is Quinn and Graves getting the nerfs they deserve? It was openly admitted that nerfs were incoming for them for being too strong like MF.

Put your filthy fingers away from my Anivia and Vel' Koz. Also Vel's eye should have glowing effects when his ult is up, for clarity, right?

I like that you're now baiting mods. Hope that goes well for you.

RiotMeddlerFeb 9, 201612 votes

We don't feel that 'Clarity' means 'convey everything'. Ability CDs for example are generally hidden from the enemy and deliberately so. What we want to address however are cases where something is conveyed, but poorly. In Anivia's case the information on her passive state is available, it's just accessed via an awkward manner (click on her, find icon on buff bar) that's not an interesting test of skill or awareness. As a result we'd ideally want to either convey that clearly (visual effects you can see at a glance for example) or hide it entirely (make it a memory test/guessing game) depending on which we felt created better gameplay.

CraftynamehereFeb 10, 20161 votes

Would it not be the best of both worlds to just draw a picture of an egg on her icon above the minimap? That way allies are in the know, without much of a "click this, look there frantically", while still preserving the element of surprise for an enemy anivia (granted your not timing it when it was popped).

I understand why you wouldn't want to telegraph it to an opposing team, but surely there's middle ground in the (allies) HUD's icon. Same for voli, zac, ect. There's an obvious advantage knowing when it is up. Which is precisely why you wouldn't make it a glowing border or some bs for everyone to see, but at the same time it's pretty vital for allies to know teamfighting in a panic.

dr lichdeathFeb 9, 20161 votes

um meddler i just had what i think a great idea so i was just thinking about a champion that consists of 2 champions like a permanent shaco ult at the base this would seem rather OP thus i thought about making it that each of those 2 champions only have 3 items max this would mean that the champion consisting of 2 champions would be OP early but fall off extremely hard late altough they would still be of significance because theyre still 2 champions and have combos with themselves and big lcs plays stuff

so... im just gonna leave this idea here in the hopes that you guys pick it up and do something cool with it

CountermanderFeb 9, 20164 votes

DUDE. NO. Let me tell you why. Anivia's tool tip also mentions this, but she is very strong early on, and it is encouraged that she plays aggressive (because she has rebirth). Many early kills I earn in games (KR, plat) come from the enemy forgetting about my passive, Rebirth. But sparkles that indicate this passive will not only help myself/yourself, it will ALSO HELP THE ENEMY, which is something I'm not sure all Anivia players want. Your opinion does not speak for the greater number of players out there. There is already the passive CD info shown when you click on the Anivia, ally or enemy. It is one of her hidden strengths. Letting the enemy underestimating is part of the strategy.

Conclusion: Your idea is good for beginners (which I assume you are) to identify things better; but it's not something all users want.

For example, Lissandra's passive makes her ice V-helmet shine, and when I see it glow, I know her next skill is mana free, so I put that into my calculations to trade with her.

Please. Meddler. That is not something all of us want. Anivia is already weakened with her R nerf....

SkylendorFeb 9, 201614 votes

{quoted}

DUDE. NO. Let me tell you why. Anivia's tool tip also mentions this, but she is very strong early on, and it is encouraged that she plays aggressive (because she has rebirth). Many early kills I earn in games (KR, plat) come from the enemy forgetting about my passive, Rebirth. But sparkles that indicate this passive will not only help myself/yourself, it will ALSO HELP THE ENEMY, which is something I'm not sure all Anivia players want. Your opinion does not speak for the greater number of players out there. There is already the passive CD info shown when you click on the Anivia, ally or enemy. It is one of her hidden strengths. Letting the enemy underestimating is part of the strategy.

Conclusion: Your idea is good for beginners (which I assume you are) to identify things better; but it's not something all users want.

For example, Lissandra's passive makes her ice V-helmet shine, and when I see it glow, I know her next skill is mana free, so I put that into my calculations to trade with her.

Please. Meddler. That is not something all of us want. Anivia is already weakened with her R nerf....

Hahaha I love this. It wasn't enough for you to post this once and get downvoted, you had to post this self-interested condescending drivel twice... and you still end up downvoted on the second post!!

Why not just remove all visual effects altogether, so that everyone is at an equal advantage? Make it so that the only way you know Olaf has ulted is his increased move speed. Did trynd ult? Dunno, just have to try and kill him. If it works, it works, if it doesn't, it must be because you're too bad. Take out Annie's little whirlpool too. If you can't keep track of her stacks in a 5v5 situation you're terrible. I mean, come on, how easy is it to keep track of 40+ abilities with different cooldowns, while watching your positioning and your team's positioning and everyone's active items and summoner spells. Can't do it? You must be a noob.

Your argument is absolutely idiotic.

CountermanderFeb 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Hahaha I love this. It wasn't enough for you to post this once and get downvoted, you had to post this self-interested condescending drivel twice... and you still end up downvoted on the second post!!

Why not just remove all visual effects altogether, so that everyone is at an equal advantage? Make it so that the only way you know Olaf has ulted is his increased move speed. Did trynd ult? Dunno, just have to try and kill him. If it works, it works, if it doesn't, it must be because you're too bad. Take out Annie's little whirlpool too. If you can't keep track of her stacks in a 5v5 situation you're terrible. I mean, come on, how easy is it to keep track of 40+ abilities with different cooldowns, while watching your positioning and your team's positioning and everyone's active items and summoner spells. Can't do it? You must be a noob.

Your argument is absolutely idiotic.

Is it? Is it really? Then why don't we just suggest to Riot, to add cooldown timers for enemy Flash spells as well? Spells already show cooldown timers for all allies. But not for enemies. Why is that??? Why did Riot not put down Flash timers to show for enemies as well? and why do people in high Elo tend to memorize it themselves? Clarity and Hidden Strength are two different issues. Listen to other summoners on this thread; about he Aniv Egg baits, Zac blob baits, Voli baits....

Aatrox has extremely clear indication for his passive CD; white for down, red for up; I suggest you check out Aatrox pick rates and win rates. I haven't seen him played during the last two hundred games I played. One of his biggest flaws is that people just go in very casually on him, when they see his bar is white. If his resource bar didn't change colors, I think anyone trying to dive / gank him would first have a wary thought.

Your argument is absolutely idiotic.

SkylendorFeb 9, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Is it? Is it really? Then why don't we just suggest to Riot, to add cooldown timers for enemy Flash spells as well? Spells already show cooldown timers for all allies. But not for enemies. Why is that??? Why did Riot not put down Flash timers to show for enemies as well? and why do people in high Elo tend to memorize it themselves? Clarity and Hidden Strength are two different issues. Listen to other summoners on this thread; about he Aniv Egg baits, Zac blob baits, Voli baits....

Aatrox has extremely clear indication for his passive CD; white for down, red for up; I suggest you check out Aatrox pick rates and win rates. I haven't seen him played during the last two hundred games I played. One of his biggest flaws is that people just go in very casually on him, when they see his bar is white. If his resource bar didn't change colors, I think anyone trying to dive / gank him would first have a wary thought.

Your argument is absolutely idiotic.

Flash is universal. Anyone has access to it, and it's effectiveness is limited. It's either an all in tool, or an escape mechanism. It does no damage, no healing, and has no effect other than moving your character a short distance.

Anivia's egg is as cheese as Tahm's grey health. It's not a matter of nerfing her, it's a matter of that particular part of her kit being overtuned. You wanna talk about baits and compare Anivia to the likes of Voli and Zac? When was the last time you saw voli blow up an adc, 100-0 with a single combo? When was the last time you saw Zac not in 5th place for damage? Also worth noting is the fact that despite their "bait" status, I rarely see them played professionally.

So essentially, what I take from your post is that you enjoy playing a cheese champ and stomping on silvers like myself (also not ashamed to admit that, again you're a condescending ___), but that doesn't mean that when someone asks for some counterplay to your cheese that you get to veto it.

CountermanderFeb 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Flash is universal. Anyone has access to it, and it's effectiveness is limited. It's either an all in tool, or an escape mechanism. It does no damage, no healing, and has no effect other than moving your character a short distance.

Anivia's egg is as cheese as Tahm's grey health. It's not a matter of nerfing her, it's a matter of that particular part of her kit being overtuned. You wanna talk about baits and compare Anivia to the likes of Voli and Zac? When was the last time you saw voli blow up an adc, 100-0 with a single combo? When was the last time you saw Zac not in 5th place for damage? Also worth noting is the fact that despite their "bait" status, I rarely see them played professionally.

So essentially, what I take from your post is that you enjoy playing a cheese champ and stomping on silvers like myself (also not ashamed to admit that, again you're a condescending ___), but that doesn't mean that when someone asks for some counterplay to your cheese that you get to veto it.

Counterplay to the so-called Cheese, is to KNOW AND REMEMBER Anivia has an egg. It's that simple. Everyone knows it. Who doesn't? You keep it in mind when you face an Anivia in lane. It's like knowing LeBlanc has insane damage at lvl 2, so you avoid her and keep a distance as soon as she hits 2. You can't let Rito point everything out to everyone; part of the experience with LoL is to memorize these things, and "learn the game"... Don't be that Zed that tries to duel with me at lvl 3, and upon dying and Anivia egging, call out "Lame!". Part of climbing the ladder (in other words, becoming better at the game) is to learn, know, and memorize each champion. You can't just put a label to everything in the game. What the hellllll???

Just to add some clarity. I may sound very condescending, but that's not because I want to. The idea of adding particles for passives like Anivia's, Zac's, and Voli's is so preposterous that I can't even take it seriously.

-EDIT- Also the Guardian angel is universally accessible. But it still got an indication effect. Why shouldn't Flash get a CD timer? People just jot them down in notepads or in chats, almost 5/7 games.

SkylendorFeb 9, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Counterplay to the so-called Cheese, is to KNOW AND REMEMBER Anivia has an egg. It's that simple. Everyone knows it. Who doesn't? You keep it in mind when you face an Anivia in lane. It's like knowing LeBlanc has insane damage at lvl 2, so you avoid her and keep a distance as soon as she hits 2. You can't let Rito point everything out to everyone; part of the experience with LoL is to memorize these things, and "learn the game"... Don't be that Zed that tries to duel with me at lvl 3, and upon dying and Anivia egging, call out "Lame!". Part of climbing the ladder (in other words, becoming better at the game) is to learn, know, and memorize each champion. You can't just put a label to everything in the game. What the hellllll???

Just to add some clarity. I may sound very condescending, but that's not because I want to. The idea of adding particles for passives like Anivia's, Zac's, and Voli's is so preposterous that I can't even take it seriously.

-EDIT- Also the Guardian angel is universally accessible. But it still got an indication effect. Why shouldn't Flash get a CD timer? People just jot them down in notepads or in chats, almost 5/7 games.

To address your edit first: Yes, GA is universal. It also costs a decent amount of gold and costs an item slot that in most cases could be better spent on a more effective item. Flash is arguably the most effective summoner spell, especially for immobile champs, so 9 times out of 10 people are going to take it. It doesn't even compare to something like the egg.

Please keep in mind that this game needs to be fun for everyone, not just fun for you to play cheese champs and roflstomp on low elos. If you're going to whine and complain about giving Anivia a particle, then you need to take literally every other particle out of the game in order for it to be fair.

Egg baits are only a part of Anivia's style because she doesn't HAVE a particle. It's not what makes her unique, there are tons of other "bait" champs out there, as you yourself have mentioned. IMO the only people pulling "bait" plays like this are ones that CAN'T burst a carry from 100-0 with a single rotation which is on a relatively short cooldown.

In the case of Voli baits, you basically just have to burst him hard enough. It's possible to kill him through the regen, and any grevious wounds item will counter it. You can counter voli's passive with an item's passive ability which, if his passive is proccing, has already applied it's debuff to him.

Zac's baits split him into four relatively weak pieces, totalling 48% of his health, and REDUCING his resistances.

Starting at level 12, Anivia GAINS resistances in egg form, and has 100 PERCENT of her natural health. Not only can she do crazy burst damage, but you have to kill her, at which point she gets a full health bar again and added armor and MR and you have to kill her AGAIN, and if you don't you can bet that 6 seconds later she's going to pop up and destroy you with a q-e combo.

Anivia's "egg baits" are overtuned.

KaeblenFeb 9, 20162 votes

Anivia's egg is as cheese as Tahm's grey health.

I really hope you were not going for credibility on this one.

getting health back and still being able to fight is one thing. getting it back and then being put in status where you are completely helpless but can still be easily killed?--very different.

CountermanderFeb 9, 20162 votes

Someone who knows their stuff....

@Skylendor It's very unreasonable to even compare Anivia to Tahm Kench. Tahm is banned in most games in KR, because he is currently still in the untouchable OP zone. Anivia is not, never been. Also super weak to poke champs.

SkylendorFeb 9, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I really hope you were not going for credibility on this one.

getting health back and still being able to fight is one thing. getting it back and then being put in status where you are completely helpless but can still be easily killed?--very different.

Tahm doesn't get health back, it's a shield.

Aniv in egg form after level 12 has more armor and MR than she does out of egg form. And a free full health bar. If anything, I would say this is MORE cheese than Tahm, at least as far as baits go (especially with health items like RoA in vogue). Tahm is still ridiculous in every other respect.

SirWoofyFeb 9, 20162 votes

While this would be helpful to a lot of players, it would be a nerf to anivia. Egg bait is a large part of her play that would be completely negated. She would need compensation buffs to remain viable.

CountermanderFeb 9, 20161 votes

Egg baits are a big part of Anivia plays. Skylendor obviously doesn't play Anivia.

TeCoolMageFeb 10, 20161 votes

I'd say yes, just give her a small buff for lower Elos in return.

PreymsterFeb 10, 20161 votes

Honestly i think this is a great idea. but since its a giant gameplay element that she works around it should only be visible to her teammates.

i think you could EASILY get away with replacing the ult indicator on her icon in-game with an egg icon that fills when her passive is on cooldown. her ult is on a 6 second cooldown already and i cant really imagine an actual need to worry about when her ult is up. in most cases im worried that she doesnt have mana.

it would give much needed clarity to her team, especially the jungler when he goes to gank middle lane because they can work around her passive as well.