Just a legit, curious question... It kind of bothers me that Nidalee possesses such a powerful burst heal with an amazing aspd steroid. The mana cost is pretty high, it's got a mediocre cooldown but... For what purpose does it exist in her kit? In what way does it make sense on her, thematically? o-o
SaltyKracka12 votesI believe it started out as a lane sustain tool for midlane Nidalee.
...Of course, it being the most powerful self-heal in the game is something that Riot has left unaddressed for a long time now.
Krys Star2 votesI main Soraka, and it just irks me how it outclasses my heals in most situations because it's a huge burst heal that doesn't sacrifice her health. Although Soraka can heal the same amount within 3-4 casts of her heals, that's 30-40% of her health chunked away.
DJ Di09 votes[{quoted}](name=Krys Teare Star,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IYU1vWtA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-07-28T09:08:17.520+0000)
I main Soraka, and it just irks me how it outclasses my heals in most situations because it's a huge burst heal that doesn't sacrifice her health. Although Soraka can heal the same amount within 3-4 casts of her heals, that's 30-40% of her health chunked away.
?????
**Primal Surge **
HEAL: 45 / 85 / 125 / 165 / 205 (+ 50% AP)
ATTACK SPEED: 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60%
Astral Infusion
HEAL: 120 / 150 / 180 / 210 / 240 (+ 60% AP)
PhoenixSlayer135 votesThat's only the heal on other people DJ. To self-heal with Soraka, you first have to hit with Starcall, and that heals the following:
Minimum: 25 / 35 / 45 / 55 / 65 (+40% AP), increased by 1% for every 1% of missing health.
So you see, Nidalee still has better burst self-healing than Soraka, especially because it's not a skillshot.
Of note though is that this is the heal per enemy champion hit, so Soraka could outsustain Nidalee if she hit more than one champion. Still, it's a relatively slow-moving skillshot compared to a click-and-heal skill.
Narasimha4 votesWell, yeah. Soraka's self heal isn't supposed to be a lifesaver or something to keep her topped off. It's there so that she won't kill herself through healing others. If it were even decently strong, she'd just run into a solo lane again.
PhoenixSlayer132 votesThat's a fair point as well. Soraka definitely needs that heal with how her kit is set up. I'm just not so sure if Nidalee really needs her heal when her gameplay is poke to low and then assassinate.
I guess what I'm trying to say is I'd feel that her E would be ok if she didn't have a completely assassin-based cougar form.
Krys Star1 votesI was more or less talking about how often Nidalee builds and stacks AP. Her heal goes for 500-600 average late game compared to Soraka. Unless all the Nidalees you play with are strangely going ad/bruiser.
Anonagon1 votesone of these champions builds full ap
the other can only afford to dedicate one slot to frost queen's before being forced to buy support items for slots 2-4 and never getting enough gold for 5 and 6
Cenobite Azaziel2 votes[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IYU1vWtA,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-07-28T19:02:30.686+0000)
?????
**Primal Surge **
Astral Infusion
Nida builds pure AP. Good luck building pure ap on soraka and being useful.
DJ Di02 votes[{quoted}](name=Cenobite Azaziel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IYU1vWtA,comment-id=0001000000000003,timestamp=2015-07-28T22:01:42.991+0000)
Nida builds pure AP. Good luck building pure ap on soraka and being useful.
http://i.gyazo.com/e52847b6e53df2a46fab1c807ec00a23.png
I seem to be doing just fine building AP.
Cenobite Azaziel1 votes[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IYU1vWtA,comment-id=00010000000000030000,timestamp=2015-07-29T01:25:36.749+0000)
http://i.gyazo.com/e52847b6e53df2a46fab1c807ec00a23.png
I seem to be doing just fine building AP.
Is there a coin/sight stone in your build? Elo?
DJ Di01 votes[{quoted}](name=Cenobite Azaziel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IYU1vWtA,comment-id=000100000000000300000000,timestamp=2015-07-29T14:55:13.641+0000)
Is there a coin/sight stone in your build? Elo?
Yeah I rush Sighstone and Talisman; Talisman's passive is amazing for sustain.
Plat 1 elo atm; haven't had time to rank lately.
Cenobite Azaziel1 votes[{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IYU1vWtA,comment-id=0001000000000003000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-29T17:39:06.605+0000)
Yeah I rush Sighstone and Talisman; Talisman's passive is amazing for sustain.
Plat 1 elo atm; haven't had time to rank lately.
Talisman and sight stone eat up two slots of pure AP. Soraka will never heal the same as nidalee. (Unless you are using nidalee as a suport).
DJ Di01 votes[{quoted}](name=Cenobite Azaziel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IYU1vWtA,comment-id=00010000000000030000000000000000,timestamp=2015-07-29T19:51:45.277+0000)
Talisman and sight stone eat up two slots of pure AP. Soraka will never heal the same as nidalee. (Unless you are using nidalee as a suport).
http://i.gyazo.com/b514bf880e2dda13e0a750199a636ec1.png
???
Even just a mejais boosts your healing by a massive amount; her heal has both a higher ratio, lower cooldown, and a higher base heal.
gaby1best7 votesthe most powerful self-heal
Anonagon1 votesWhile Nidalee's base and ratio are lower than most supports, including Taric. no support can match Nidalee's heal because none of them have the gold to invest in scaling their heal, while Nidalee builds full AP and has all the gold of a solo lane, good waveclearing, snowballing assassin.
I mean, come midgame, each of their respective builds would be:
Taric: 
Nidalee: 
Now which one of these heals is going to be more powerful? The one that has only a tiny bit of bonus health scaling it, or the one with 400 AP scaling it?
Taric's max-rank heal would be 353.5 on himself with that build Nidalee's max-rank heal would be 407.5 with that build
What about lategame, full build?
Taric: 
= 406 point self-heal
Nidalee: 
= 515.5 point heal
The builds I used are even heavily in Taric's favor - Nidalee would get to full build far before Taric would, and Nidalee could get even higher AP by going Zhonya's instead of Lich and by using 
.
gaby1best1 votesIt wasn't about items, it was about the most powerful self heal. And Taric's got the STRONGEST! Purely outrageous. Think of a full AP nida and Taric with the same build, compare heals. Isn't it just outrageous?
Anonagon1 votesIts about the most powerful self heal, and Nidalee's is simply more powerful. I've shown you the math. If Taric were also full AP, his heal would still be less because his self-heal ratio is only 28% while Nidalee's is 50%.
Vibrating Hotdog1 votesActually, the strongest self-heal was patch 5.12 Runeglaive AP Gangplank. I think it's still the strongest self-heal if he builds AP+runeglaive jungle
gaby1best2 votesHow does runeglaive influence the heal he gets? It doesn't. AP GP was a thing way before runeglaive. And yes, GP has probably the strongest possible self heal, if he would be at 1 HP and had a HP + AP build. But Taric still has the strongest raw self heal around.
Vibrating Hotdog1 votesI was just mentioning the runeglaive part since it made AP GP more viable and more common during the patch.
ElJanitorFrank1 votesI'm fairly sure Nidalee had it when she went top lane before Midalee was a thing.
Matezoide1 votesI miss it when Soraka could heal herself. I legit dont understand why people cried about Mid/Top Soraka when Nidalee existed.
SaltyKracka4 votesSolo lane Q spam Soraka was legit toxic.
Orbv1 votesIt honestly got me out of Bronze. I was VERY disappointed to find out 3 months later that it was getting popular. So I spammed it to Gold I............and then it was nerfed :'(
DomainSpecific8 votesThe purpose is to make Nidalee the ultimate poke champion. She had spears to poke from afar, traps to prevent sneaking, healing to outheal all other pokers, AS steroid to take down towers after poking, and her Cougar jump to escape engages.
Her other 2 cougar abilities exist to finish off the champions that are low from her poke.
I personally consider Nidalee to be one of the most toxic champions, but her kit really blends together well.
TheVishual6 votes[{quoted}](name=Krys Teare Star,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IYU1vWtA,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-07-28T08:45:21.687+0000)
Just a legit, curious question... It kind of bothers me that Nidalee possesses such a powerful burst heal with an amazing aspd steroid. The mana cost is pretty high, it's got a mediocre cooldown but... For what purpose does it exist in her kit? In what way does it make sense on her, thematically? o-o
Thematically nidalee's kit is "You can't do anything to me before 25 minutes"
bad manner kid5 votesNidalees theme is OP
Sherogarth2 votesNidalee was supposed to be support champ.
Doctor Dyment2 votesBecause when Rito created Nidalee, they were thinking to themselves, "Oh gee wizz, man this new champion is really BS and everyone will hate playing against her. But something is missing in her already overloaded kit... Hmm. She has a manaless jump, a long ranged skillshot that chunks more health than most ultimates, and a takedown move if you didn't die from the spear. What could she need? Oh I know! A heal, AND an attack speed buff to go with it.
PhoenixSlayer131 votesI'll have to agree. Everything else is thematically appropriate for her. Even if it was just turned into an attack speed steroid, you use human form to poke, not go all in.
Abyssphere1 votesI believe the current purpose is jungle sustain/DPS.
HailFire Dragon1 votesa long time ago people actually used nid bot and used the heal for their ad carry. shocking i know
GundayMonday1 votesPlus it makes me thirsty for extinct beverages. PRIMALLY THIRSTY. T_T QQ D: :'(
flibitydoo1 votesWhy are we comparing Soraka and Nids heals?
Also take into account that Nid heals at about once every 10 seconds, Raka heals roughly once per second (running standard cdr).
The ability to perpetually deny lethal auto attacks from the enemy carry is extremely powerful. It's infuriating to be constantly denied the killing blow as an ADC because Soraka's heal is on such a short CD (I know this from all the enemy ADCs that have raged at me for doing my job as raka).
And Soraka's healing in general is much stronger, she actually fills her own niche in the support role in that no other support champion can really compete with her in healing. It makes her unique as a support.(like how no one can compete with blitz for pulling)
Meep Man1 votesthe most powerful self-heal in the game
FurryFluffyFoxy1 votesBecause it seems primal and it looks like a surge
Ralantha1 votesShe has no cc.. not defending anything, just mentioning it.
Lugg1 votesIt's just another example of champions getting way too many abilities in their kit and becoming impossible to balance. Every champion that has a loaded kit is considered toxic for a reason.
